Conquest- What do you want it to do?

[Crazy Uncle Doug]

Looking at the picture from the Cryx Kraken video, i see a Colossal fighting 2 Kraken...but while this is awesome. Im also wondering where they are.

Look at their surroundings...is that...the Cryxian islands?

Will Khador attack Cryx in force? Please please tell me they do.

In order to save Karchev.

They just might. After all, Cryx has been encroaching subtly under Khadoran land for a while. It's about time Cryx learns that Khador punches back, and we aren't subtle about that.

[Brushmonkey]

I was hoping it could launch biplanes off the shoulders. I've had a good look at the model, and i'm not so sure that it can though.

[quindraco]

For the points cost (and damage grids) of two jacks, I'd like it to be slightly more focus efficient than 2 jacks, either because of higher base stats (MAT/RAT/POW) reducing the need to boost, or some fancy rule (powerful shot on the chest guns?)

We already have a warjack capable of eating 6 focus per turn, If you can only allocate 3 to these things, with minimum 5 base attacks that's going to be an issue.

I can't wait to see the rules.

I completely agree. Simple over-allocation is unlikely to be enough - heck, just his initial gunshots are likely to chew through 6 focus just on boosting to hit and/or buying shots! I'm expecting boosting to be necessary - he'll almost certainly be RAT 4, and as a Colossal there are no shenanigans to let you move him while he retains his aiming bonus. He's really going to need an efficiency ramp - if he hasn't got one of his own, he'll be relegated to casters who can provide it themselves, like eIrusk.

[sliganian]

I also wonder what the 2 black tote bins on the shoulders are for , if anything at all.

Throwing axes. A 'Flak Field' effect that is really hundreds of axes being thrown from clock-work mechanisms in the shoulders.

/well we can dream can't we?

[Marth]

Well, with our luck, they might be smoke grenade launchers...

[NecroticDischarge]

I just want it to cost 18 Points so I can feild 2 along with 2 guncarraiges with harkevitch.

[correlation2]

Unfortunately I can't imagine the shoulders actually doing anything without any overt sign. I'd like to imagine that they come as closeable hatches like the Gun Carriage and there's actually a bunch of rockets under there.

LRM 20 RACKS PP, MAKE IT HAPPEN.

[quindraco]

The shoulder pads actually house bears, which Konquest can throw at his enemies.

[DoktorVivi]

LRM 20 RACKS PP, MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Why on earth would you want 20 Living Room Modules on racks?

/obscure joke

[Seventhprophet]

I hope they are 18 points or less. I don't have a clue what they do yet but I would love to field 2 with pVlad, war dog and max mechaniks for 35 points

[ScottEBJJ]

Be worth its points. Make Mechaniks awesome.

[Siegebringer]

-Reasonable focus use
-Shoulders that do something... maybe rain of death (he does sort of have the shields although they only cover the hands)
-mini-feat?

[OMM_Lukav]

The shoulder pads actually house bears, which Konquest can throw at his enemies.

Only if said bears have axes attached to each paw! This is a kolossal after all, no ordinary bear will suffice.

[Tyr852]

I change my answer to bears as well , or given the hatred the locals have for my wardog he can also launch those.

[Crazy Uncle Doug]

I change my answer to bears as well , or given the hatred the locals have for my wardog he can also launch those.

Oooo!

Ability: War Dog Kennel - During its activation, Conquest may spawn one War Dog for each focus spent, provided this does not exceed current War Dog field allowance, and available warcasters do not already have an attachment. At spawn, declare which caster War Dog is attached to.

[Marth]

If there are rockets under that, he'd be like an IK Madcat - just better.

[Flak Maniak]

I want it to look good. Yeah, I'm still on about that.

[jdeckert]

When I was first starting out, someone explained to me that the models in Warmachine are all about breaking the rules. It's what makes them so unique and flavorful. Concealment gives you +2 DEF against range, except against this unit. You can't make ranged attacks in melee, except this model.

I want Conquest to break the rules in a way that make him feel like King flippin' Kong. Give him the ability to throw and/or slam other colossals. Something like "during it's activation, models in base to base with this model lose Immovable Object." Or let him end his trample on top of small bases and move them according to least disturbance. Or trample over bases smaller than his.

Really, I just want this guy to feel like it should considering it's the Khador colossal. I want it to be the toughest, hardest-hitting model in the game.

[sliganian]

I want the Conquest make the enemy fly.

Gets an Attack for each limb (so 4).

Legs
*Attack: "Punt": make a melee attack with this leg. Models hit are treated as suffering a two-handed throw with a distance of 6+ 2D6" directly away from this model. The target model also suffers an initial Impact hit in addition to normal collateral damage.

Arm
*Attack: "Sweep": (visual: Sauron in the battle at the start of Fellowship of the Ring): make a melee attack against every model within 4" of this weapon and in this weapon's arc. Models hit suffer a two-handed throw effect with a distance of 2D6" directly away from this model. The target model also suffers an initial Impact hit in addition to normal collateral damage.

[CHaoTiCTeX]

The shoulder pads actually house Kodiaks, which Conquest can throw at his enemies.

Fixed!

but on a more serious note, i want the shoulders to do something but im not holding my breath. I want the main gun to be something like a 5" aoe with rough terrain RoF 1. Fists should be pow 17 with critical knockdown (or just knockdown on smaller targets perhaps and crit knockdown on other colossals?) the small guns should be either bombards or the decimators gun except with more range on it.

though I dont see it having a rat of higher than 4 oh, and armor 25 would be cool too

[correlation2]

Let's be realistic though.

MAT 7
RAT 4
ARM 20
x2 mini bombards RNG 10 POW 14 arcing fire ROF 1
x1 big gun ROF 1 RNG 14 POW 16 AOE 4 ( on direct hit models in AOE are KD )
x2 fists POW 17
21 pts.

[quindraco]

Let's be realistic though.

MAT 7
RAT 4
ARM 20
x2 mini bombards RNG 10 POW 14 arcing fire ROF 1
x1 big gun ROF 1 RNG 14 POW 16 AOE 4 ( on direct hit models in AOE are KD )
x2 fists POW 17
21 pts.

1) No non-character warjack in Khador has MAT 7.
2) PP has explicitly stated that Colossals all cost 18-20 points, so 21 is impossible.
3) ARM 20 is unlikely, since Behemoth is ARM 21. I'm expecting 22-24, but I would bet cash money it's at least 21.
4) All 3 of Conquest's guns are double barreled. Rules don't have to match the model, but I would assume the second barrel has some rules effect - perhaps ROF 2, perhaps simply another initial, perhaps multiple AOEs like Jonne.
5) A PP staffer said a Conquest could "one-shot" a Defender on high rolls. Assuming he meant a single punch - doing it in a single activation is not remarkable, as many (all?) of our heavies can do that on straight 6s - POW 17 doesn't cut it. I forget the exact math, but I believe we worked out the simplest solution was POW 15 with AP and Crit Brutal (which would admittedly resolve as POW 17 against small-based models).

[correlation2]

MAT 6 isn't enough to make a Thresher attack worthwhile against most infantry.

I heard it was 18-22, but you might be right.

ARM 20 doesn't sound like much, but at the same time we're getting x2 grids so I'm not expecting anything too insane. We'll make up for the squishiness with extra boxes.

I sure hope double barreled = BOTH BARRELS attacks and not ROF 2. If you have 3 ROF 2 guns you're looking at at least 3 focus to shoot them all twice, not even counting boosting to hit or damage or anything like that. That would be pretty crazy... not in a good way. ( like a Decimator but worse lol )

I can't imagine a Defender being 1 shot by PS 15 AP fists. Assuming 3 dice with that crit brutal or whatever or boosted then you get 18. 18 + 7 = 25. I think a Defender has more than 25 boxes. I guess if you had AP POW 15 with 4 dice you could do it, but then you could kill virtually anything with that. Maybe he meant the gun? Maybe the gun has AP?


I could be completely wrong though. Just cautioning against expecting all sorts of zaniness and special rules like other Colossals will have. I'd LOVE for the Colossal to blow my mind in terms of special rules and cool things it can do but I've learned not to expect much for Khador beyond HIGH POW HIGH ARM.

[quindraco]

MAT 6 isn't enough to make a Thresher attack worthwhile against most infantry.

I heard it was 18-22, but you might be right.

ARM 20 doesn't sound like much, but at the same time we're getting x2 grids so I'm not expecting anything too insane. We'll make up for the squishiness with extra boxes.

I sure hope double barreled = BOTH BARRELS attacks and not ROF 2. If you have 3 ROF 2 guns you're looking at at least 3 focus to shoot them all twice, not even counting boosting to hit or damage or anything like that. That would be pretty crazy... not in a good way. ( like a Decimator but worse lol )

I can't imagine a Defender being 1 shot by PS 15 AP fists. Assuming 3 dice with that crit brutal or whatever or boosted then you get 18. 18 + 7 = 25. I think a Defender has more than 25 boxes. I guess if you had AP POW 15 with 4 dice you could do it, but then you could kill virtually anything with that. Maybe he meant the gun? Maybe the gun has AP?


I could be completely wrong though. Just cautioning against expecting all sorts of zaniness and special rules like other Colossals will have. I'd LOVE for the Colossal to blow my mind in terms of special rules and cool things it can do but I've learned not to expect much for Khador beyond HIGH POW HIGH ARM.

If you roll straight sixes on the aforementioned fists when charging a Defender, you will deal exactly its number of boxes in damage.

[correlation2]

Hm~ Interesting.

[OldIronEyes]

What do you want it to do?

Bring Karchev back.

[sarukamate]

A pair of P+S 15 armour piercing fists with critical brutal damage on a Khador heavy with reach and a sort of thresher-like power attack would be worth 20 points without any guns at all. I think we need to let go of this "one shot a Defender" hearsay. It's utter nonsense.

I'd consider myself spoiled to get two "field guns" (or something like them), a ROF 2 bombard on top (maybe with AOE 4) and P+S 18 fists with ARM 21, MAT 6 and RAT 4.

[rivenwyrm]

Your Local Khadoran Guide to the Easiest Way to One-Shot a Defender:
Assume PS 18 fists

Add pButcher for Fury, basically PS 21
Add pButcher feat turn
Assume it's charging, max(4d6) = 24
Add Kiss of Lyliss
Add Rust Bomb

21 + 24 + 2 + 2 = 49

To total a Defender in one shot, you need to hit at 18 (ARM) + 30 (boxes) = 48. Blammo, one shot. Just so ya know... Behemoth is already capable of this. In fact, if Behemoth rolls all 6s, he will take down a Defender with just his non-charge initials without damage buffs.

[Havock]

Define one-shotting by the way.

When facing warjacks, the term 'mission-kill' comes to mind. Ripping off an arm and the cortex in one blow pretty much seals the deal. Or both arms.

[rivenwyrm]

One-Shot: To take from full health to rubble in a single attack. The whole quote about the Conquest one-shotting a defender has no context, so we don't know whether he meant unassisted or not.

Of course, I agree with Sarukamate that the most important things on the Conquest will be the guns.

[lastspartacus]

The barrels are all double barrels because it has a special ability that lets it reroll misses

[Tyr852]

The barrels are all double barrels because it has a special ability that lets it reroll misses

I hope not , it got really really old hearing , oh that's twin linked all the time in other games

[Crazy Uncle Doug]

The only thing I truly wish Conquest had: A beard.

[Aajz_Solari]

What do I want the Conquest (should be Konquest) to do?

Crush my enemies!
See them driven before me!
And to hear the lamentation of the women drowned out by massive explosions!

[quindraco]

A pair of P+S 15 armour piercing fists with critical brutal damage on a Khador heavy with reach and a sort of thresher-like power attack would be worth 20 points without any guns at all. I think we need to let go of this "one shot a Defender" hearsay. It's utter nonsense.

I'd consider myself spoiled to get two "field guns" (or something like them), a ROF 2 bombard on top (maybe with AOE 4) and P+S 18 fists with ARM 21, MAT 6 and RAT 4.

No one in their right mind would pay 20 points for just those fists on a juggernaut chassis with reach and power attack:half-thresher - sure, it'll go through enemy heavies like nobody's business, but at MAT 6 and only 3 focus, you'll be doing a lot worse than Beast at infantry clearing (indeed, anything on a small base), and he's only 11 points and has other benefits like thresher without spending focus.

"One shot a defender" is contextless and hence so subject to interpretation that we certainly can't actually make any assumptions based on it - but there's no reason to hand-wave it aside, because we have no reason at all to assume that the forum poster in question is a liar. As others have pointed out, Behemoth can easily kill a Defender "in one shot" under various definitions of it, so it's hardly overpowered since Conquest is another 5 to 7 points, so it sounds plausible.

[Octavius_Maximus]

Your Local Khadoran Guide to the Easiest Way to One-Shot a Defender:
Assume PS 18 fists

Add pButcher for Fury, basically PS 21
Add pButcher feat turn
Assume it's charging, max(4d6) = 24
Add Kiss of Lyliss
Add Rust Bomb

21 + 24 + 2 + 2 = 49

To total a Defender in one shot, you need to hit at 18 (ARM) + 30 (boxes) = 48. Blammo, one shot. Just so ya know... Behemoth is already capable of this. In fact, if Behemoth rolls all 6s, he will take down a Defender with just his non-charge initials without damage buffs.

Hey, What if its a 100 point game? Then eSorchas feat too. 2 defenders dead!

[sarukamate]

No one in their right mind would pay 20 points for just those fists on a juggernaut chassis with reach and power attack:half-thresher.

A model that could easily "thresher" through not only infantry but any multi-wound troops, or indeed heavy warjack in the game, sitting on an unslammable, un-knockdownable, un-disruptable platform with twice as many damage points as the next nearest heavy? Yes, plenty people in their right mind would pay that.
You say yourself that there's plenty definitions of "one shot". Why pick the one that requires laughably overpowered stats?

[quindraco]

A model that could easily "thresher" through not only infantry but any multi-wound troops, or indeed heavy warjack in the game, sitting on an unslammable, un-knockdownable, un-disruptable platform with twice as many damage points as the next nearest heavy? Yes, plenty people in their right mind would pay that.
You say yourself that there's plenty definitions of "one shot". Why pick the one that requires laughably overpowered stats?

1) You specified a Khador heavy and I followed suit, which means it's not an unslammable, unKDable, undisruptable platform with double standard boxes.
2) It would be able to kill at most two infantry, since it would need to buy a half-thresher with a focus point and then boost both attack rolls, since it's MAT 6 - not boosting would drop the kill count considerably against most infantry targets.
3) Its actual damage output is only 3 better than Behemoth's per punch, plus the critical effect. This is very good, but it's not worth 7 points, and many people already feel that Behemoth's true worth is 12.5, not 13. In addition, the topic at hand is a "heavy" (implying a juggernaut chassis) with only those fists, so you'd be dropping two hit boxes, a point of armor, and the guns.

Now that you're changing the topic from a Khador heavy with those fists to a Colossal with those fists, the discussion is definitely different since the model is e.g. immune to disruption and has all the hit boxes in the world, but it's still not worth 20. If you actually fielded one against me, I would simply put down Behemoth under Karchev and win all the way to the bank, with guns on top and points to spare.

As I said in my post, the simplest explanation is the fists I described, applying Occam's Razor. Outlandish explanations easily get into realms where Behemoth can pull the same trick, and I consider it more likely that the PP staffer in question was describing something Conquest could do that Behemoth could not. There's no reason to assume anything about Conquests fists, but I maintain my original claim - that the *simplest* explanation is POW 15 AP fists with Crit Brutal. Time will tell what he really has.

[correlation2]

I'm pretty sure Thresher is mostly going to be used after soaking a charge. Sure it's great and the huge base size will make it useful, but I can't imagine you're going to reach much. People will just start putting a single infantry model ( all it will take to block up a huge base ) ahead of the others so that you don't get their lines or jacks. Just spacing stuff out should be enough to reduce its effectiveness offensively.

[maskedplant]

I want it to not stand on one leg by default.

Yay! Check.