Is PP moving too quickly ?

[Yertle4]

I think things are better now than a few years ago. I would rather get a small amount of releases frequently than a too many things at once. Getting 6-8 things a year per faction are ok, especially if those things are not large units.

[Jack Spratt]

I like it just fine as it is.

[Navarp]

I think the release pace is great. If anything it is a bit slow if you only play 1 faction.

I didn't much care for anything the trolls got in Domination (aside from Rök), so I am now waiting for the next book as I will be getting Rök this month.

I anticipate that I will enjoy the Mountain King, but who knows?

[NickKendall]

I think the release pace is great. If anything it is a bit slow if you only play 1 faction.

I didn't much care for anything the trolls got in Domination (aside from Rök), so I am now waiting for the next book as I will be getting Rök this month.

I anticipate that I will enjoy the Mountain King, but who knows?

Nothing besides Rök? Our battle engine is pretty damn fine and the Sons of Bragg/Storm Troll are also decent additions not to mention Jarl.

As for the actual topic, things are not moving in the same way as WHFB. The weakness in 8th edition isn't the addition of a new gribbly in every book, but instead that the base rule set is garbage. Privateer isn't moving all that quickly, but I can see why you'd think that if you're a purely Mk II player. For most of Mk II, they've been unable to add new unit types due to the need to update both systems and their production issues. Sure things like Ranking Officers, Battle Engines, and Colossals (I still hate pluralizing colossal like that) are firing off one after another, but that's after a long drought of nothing new.

[Jackie Paper]

I like having several options that do the same thing. It may sound silly but it lets you build functional lists to themes when you can have 2 or 3 different types of models or units that can fill the same spot. I don't mind the pace of releases so much as what is being released. I rather wish they would finish putting out the models for one book before releasing figures for a book not even out yet.

[mrhuettel]

playing wm since 2006, i have been able to follow the process of the transition between mk1 and mk2, the introduction of cavalry and character solos (in superiority), character units and allies (in legends) and two new faction books (pirates of the broken coast and fow: retribution).

after that, the game somehow felt saturated and somehow imbalanced while the transition to mk2 was a combination of privateerpress' own developments and community feedback - the resulting game was open for new stuff, new scales of games (both unbound and league play).

the plastic and resin models open the door to a vast amount of new choices both in jacks and troops, battle engines and colossals are beautiful centre pieces of an army, but not necessary to win a game.

i feel confident, that PP is going just the right way between giving us what we want (more beautiful miniatures, more fluff, more development) and retaining us from what breaks the game. and they do that at a steady pace, not too fast, not too slow.

[EvilJosh]

Agreed, I took a break from the game for a while, but I started playing a long time ago and the release schedule isn't a problem. That being said, I do wish they would slow their releases. But, I don't think that it's moving too fast for us to handle. I think it's moving too fast for PP to handle. I feel like they should've held off on a few release dates until they were able to actually supply the products they carry now. Otherwise they're forever playing catch up.

[Deo85]

I for one think there releasing things just at the right time and are not going to fast at all. I would say having a few new toys every year is what keeps us guessing on what to do and what new things to look into

[Akashi]

Honestly the toughest part I have seen with the pace of releases is on the Competitive scene as its a bit rougher to follow the abilities and combos of all new releases.

[Mr.chair]

It's a mixed bag. Constant splash releases keep us all constantly in a state of excitement and keep the game and the tournament scene from becoming stale. However, I do worry that at some point the sheer amount of models you'll need to understand this game are going to become voerwhelming to new players. I've been a PP convert for about a year now, and I've still played against only about half (or less) of the casters out there, despite playing multiple games a week. In my experience the first time I play against a caster their tricks, which may be difficult to visualize simply by reading their cards, tend to cost me the game. For example, I've told many players who have never faced Molik before exactly what he's going to do, and yet he still caster kills them the first time out, every time. You really can't learn to play effectively against something until you've already played against it at least once before. That means if you want to be prepared to play in a tournament you should have played at least enough games to hit almost every caster (so what? 100? More?). That doesn't even take in to account that each other type of model released can change the way a caster is played, and what they can do, such as how the Archidon has changed eMorghoul's abilities. I just worry that at some point it's going to take a two year learning curve for a newb to be able to even compete in this game. That said, I do love the releases. So long as they continue to be balanced I'll be happy. I trust battlefront and Privateer Press to continue making good games, because their balance is a big part of what attracts all the disillusioned GW gamers to them in the first place.

[Kevin949]

I much prefer this constant updating and addition to armies by piecemeal rather than waiting for an entire army update years and years after the previous update just to get something new and refreshing. I'm looking at you, necrons.

I've only been playing warmachine a short while (since just before BE's came out) and I love that in the short time I've played I've seen additions to my faction. I played 40k for several years (vastly shorter than many people) and I hated the fact that nothing new EVER came out unless it was a 100% overhaul. Barring the overpriced 3rd party releases (forgeworld). Even then, there was only 1 for necrons.

I've thoroughly enjoyed my time with PP and I look forward to all the new things they will continue to bring out. I'd honestly be OK with them actually getting rid of some things to make room for new stuff as well (I'm looking at you, cephalyx).

[PG_malfred]

Once you have some regular collections going, you won't mind.

[IMakeGoodwin'sLawHappen]

Agreed, being new, it seems kind of like things are moving a bit fast, then again I'm slowly building up, and the rate at which I'm getting things is much faster than the rate at which things are being released, so I'm not too worried about it. After a while I'll have caught up and it won't seem like every time I pick something up a new model is released or announced. Then again at some point I'll probably pick up a second faction...

I do think that the piecemeal updates, rather than dumping a ton of new models, is much less stressful on both me and my wallet.

[PG_Menite Messenger]

I'd honestly be OK with them actually getting rid of some things to make room for new stuff

The day this happens is the same day all these types of fear-mongering threads become valid, and a huge portion of the player base goes bye bye. The minute a single one of the modles i have bought becomes invalid, i will not spend another penny on this game.

[Mercykiller]

It's amusing to me because this topic literally comes up every single book in every single edition. It's part of the standard Doom cycle. Next we'll see "are PP releasing too many model types/units/whathaveyou."

OP, I know you're new here so it's not you, but this pace is fine (a little slow to me in fact). It's the same pace they've done since the game started. New stuff does not equal new edition by any stretch of the imagination. It can even be argued that Mk2 wasn't even a new edition so much as a cleanup of Mk1. Privateer is not GW. I believe a lot of gamers' problems are they've been burnt by GW, badly. I know I was, for years. So we twitch any time the word 'new' is bandied about. However there's a serious difference, beyond any talk of ethics and love for their customer base. Every time a book is released, it's released for all the faction of that system. Even if there was codex creep it stays balanced since everyone's creepin. And next up will be a new Hordes book with their own versions of Colossals.

PP has earned our trust time and time again. Hell, they damn near killed themselves releasing all of the army books for every faction within the same year. I've never, and I mean never, seen a gaming company work that hard to keep things even.

So relax and enjoy the ride

[mospookey]

Having only been playing since october of last year(not long after wrath dropped i believe) I dont think PP is releasing books too fast. I have had plenty of time to purchase almost a complete Ret army, without magna-jacking or a couple of minis I dont think I would ever field(nayl? really?). I'm actually excited about the colossals book if only so I can see how some of the more veteran players locally deal with all new models. Having a steady supply of new books/models/synergies will keep the game fresh for all players. Noone wants to see the gaming community get smaller, do we?

[Kevin949]

The day this happens is the same day all these types of fear-mongering threads become valid, and a huge portion of the player base goes bye bye. The minute a single one of the modles i have bought becomes invalid, i will not spend another penny on this game.

So even if that model is something you, and practically no one else, ever take in a list and you wouldn't even consider taking it in a list as a joke you'd still just up and rage-quit the whole game?

Keep in mind, I'm not advocating they SHOULD do this, but as time goes on and rules change there is a possibility that some units will (or already are) feeling the test of time/change and not holding up well VS. other better similar cost options.

Fear-mongering threads/people will ALWAYS exist. They're called pessimists and they just plan for the worst so they can say they were right when it does happen. Because really, you can't prove someone wrong if it hasn't happened yet and they can always just say "you never know what is around the corner". So basically, they're just people that HAVE to be right at the expense of never being proven wrong.

[Syas]

I fall on the side of "not releasing too fast" and I play a WM faction and a Hordes faction (so double books every release). I think you brought up the reason I am comfortable with it in your first post - the didn't screw us with Battle Engines. We have seen them constructively and aesthetically add to their great game and it did not cause turmoil, I expect nothing less from the Colossal release (and TBH @ $135 model I think you will see less of them than BEs)

[Hansel]

Think about it in reference to Magic: the Gathering. Magic releases move lightning-fast, with four blocks of hundreds of cards each per year. This can be overwhelming, but it's also exciting! The thing with Magic, though, is you don't have to assemble and paint your 60-card decks. Also, the "standard" format that most people play in and most tournaments use is just the blocks from the last two years. So there's lots of new stuff to play with and memorize, but then it fades, and makes room for more new stuff. It's not as daunting for a newbie to join in, because everyone's learning about the new stuff together.

I'm not saying that's the right release schedule for WM, but it's a point of comparison. I definitely wouldn't want my models to be "obsolete" (Magic cards don't really go obsolete, but you get the idea) in two years. However, this does also provide an e-brake on balance in the game. If something is accidentally overpowered, it'll be OP for two years and then gone.

[Chip]

Not one person mentioned Warjacks of Renown in the list of things PP have added in? Damn I feel old

PP have now added in two new lanes of expansion - Battle Engines and Colossals. Those two and Cavalry can keep things going without getting stale for at least the rest of this edition (2 books after these, if MkI is anything to go by), as can fleshing out the Ally segments of the big four - and adding in a few more contracts, naturally :P

As I've said before (and will say again), I think each book should pick a certain theme for each army and focus on it (A whole book focussed on, say, the "trench warfare" troops - Trenchers, Assault Kommandos, Menite irregular troops, new breeds of necromechanikal constructs and Houseguard with some associated mercenaries as an example) as a decent way of focussing the expansions.

[Sining]

1 expansion for each system and faction a year isn't 'fast'. Granted I only play Khador so I don't feel as financially hurt as compared to people who play multiple factions. Btw, where's the demolisher kit coming out?!?!?! That's not fast enough for me.

[Oreet]

So even if that model is something you, and practically no one else, ever take in a list and you wouldn't even consider taking it in a list as a joke you'd still just up and rage-quit the whole game?

I know I'd be pretty upset if all of the sudden PP told me "You know those Long Gunner models you like to play, but everyone says they are severely over-priced, and no one ever plays them? Yeah, you aren't allowed to field them anymore."

One of the best features of Warmahordes over some other games is that PP doesn't "retire" models. Sure, some models don't get fielded much, particularly a lot of the artillery units, but they never tell us that we flat out cannot use them. People will always find creative ways to make these less-than-stellar models serve a purpose in their army.

[rydiafan]

as time goes on and rules change there is a possibility that some units will (or already are) feeling the test of time/change and not holding up well VS. other better similar cost options.

A good UA can fix any unit. Look at the scattergunners!

[VOLK]

I agree that they are moving too fast. They need to get their production problems in hand and actually release the stuff from the last 3(!!!) books before inventing more stuff.

[maddermax]

As someone who has a Bretonnian army for Warhammer Fantasy that hasn't been updated since 2004, I can only say how pleased I am that PP updates all armies on a regular basis. While I think it has to sort out it's production/supply chains so that there aren't long waits for stock, I think the rate of model releases is actually pretty good, and I'd commend them for keeping everything fresh, but so well balanced.

[Runewyse]

Once you have some regular collections going, you won't mind.

QFT. Either yer collection goes shallow across many factions or deep into one faction. If you have a balance of Warmachine and Hordes factions, you have releases all year long.You have every day up until the next book actually comes out to get whatever you feel like yer missing. If you just go one faction really deep, collecting the releases out of last years book comes second to getting all the old toys. You'll pick all up all the new stuff eventually.

-On the topic of PP's release patterns, I theorize that Warmachines players who begin just before a Warmachine anthology book comes out will feel the pace is too fast. Just as Hordes players who pick up a faction in anticipation of models previewed in an upcoming book, for you have six months of releases plus older core stuff to get. There is a right time to jump into either game, so that you ride the wave of releases, as opposed to to drowned by them.

If you manage to time it right, and say pick up Protectorate when Domination came out, you can focus on core models skipping a Vessel of Judgement because yer new, what is there to pick up out of Wrath? Thyra, Nicia, and the UA, both Character Warjack kits and two new Faction UAs, spread out since last September. You have to throw in an Ogrun Assult Corp (the only PoM 'caster led army usable Merc piece in Wrath) to equal the starting bits for a PoM force: a PoM battlebox, the PoM half of a Two Player box (now you have bodies to throw kits on), the faction book? $120 for the Wrath stuff and $120 for the starter stuff spread out over the last 8 months is $30 a month. Not bad for a hobby that takes place in real life. If you are ballin', and get one Battle Engine and one Colossal, spread out the cost over the 24 months those two models will be the new toy is still less than $10 a month. (You don't have to get a huge based item til yer ready. I guess my advice to new players is to save $10 a month, and if you play for 9 months with one faction, reward yerself with the BE. Hit the 2 year mark and grab a Colossal.) Double that to two factions is about $100 in model cost per month. Insert links to how much other hobbies cost here.

-I feel the pace of releases can be overwhelming depending on the frequency of play. If you play only once a month, I imagine the schedule is furious. 'Why!?, the Colossals are coming out? I haven't even painted my Battle Engine, let alone played with it as much as I had imagined" is no reason to have PP slow down as long as the populace has absorbed the impact of the new releases. How many BE's and Ranking Officers have you faced since last June? If not yet mastered, the impacts and implications of the last cycle of books has been adapted to, . More books now, that have a similar expected impact, would be fine.

[correlation2]

I'm pretty sure this is just some kind of weird newbie syndrome. I've been playing since MK1 and I don't see any problems with the # of releases.

[EvilFuzzyDoom]

I'm pretty sure this is just some kind of weird newbie syndrome. I've been playing since MK1 and I don't see any problems with the # of releases.

I'll agree with that. I've played 40k since late 2nd Ed and the new-edition-every-four-years thing always made me feel like I was being dragged along by the world.

Weirdly enough, I'm finding the half-dozen new choices for each faction every year to be easy-going. It's clear to me that PP is catering mainly for the competitive scene, and I'd warrant that six months without a change to the meta is probably enough - and since you can't proxy at tournaments, it's more like there's a year's lead-time for any single choice to actually make an impact. The rules come out, everyone proxies them and messes with them and learns them over three or four months, then when the model comes out the tourney scene is ready for them.

I much prefer the idea of "a little upgrade for everyone all the time" to "a big upgrade to 1/16th of the forces once every six years maybe."

[hmk17]

Seeing as how you came in a little over a year ago, I can see your concern.

Having gotten in during late 2004, this is pretty much par for the course with PP. They are always moving toward the next thing. Hell, Hordes was advertised for about 4 months as "The Next Big Thing" before it was officially unveiled.

While the release schedule can be frustrating (getting the Stormwall colossal BEFORE the Avenger plastic kit), dropping everything simultaneously is not the best idea either. A graduated release can really come in handy if there are problems as well as keep from over burdening production even more.

The main issue has been the popularity spurts that they get every so often where production has been outstripped by demand. They have gotten some better planning and production facilities to correct things and prepare for those bubbles. However, I have seen a lot of people not start the game because they cannot buy the models. Its a cycle I have seen loop 3 times, with the last being the crunch after Mk. 2.


I don't think we will be seeing Mk. 3 for another 1-2 years, but I do believe we will be seeing the release of new errata'd faction decks sooner.

[gaminguy]

Not one person mentioned Warjacks of Renown in the list of things PP have added in? Damn I feel old

You and me both pal.

I can see how the volumn of models would be daunting to a new player, as a veteran the new shinies aren't coming fast enough (I can't wait to get my grubby mits on the Mammoth), so I suppose that means they're probably in about the right place.

I do worry just a little about bloat, from a purely logical perspective the "never invalidate anything" paradigm is not sustainable. Sooner or later they will have to take models out of regular production because they don't sell at a profitable level, although they could always move those models to a "legacy" status where you can still special order them but they aren't on the regular production schedule anymore.

Maybe I'm wrong though; 3D printers could become ubiquitous before PP hits that point, which would eliminate the production capacity issue altogether. They wouldn't have to produce ANY miniatures at that point, we'd just pay to livestream the blueprints to our printers.

Either way, I'm not worried by their release cycle right now.

[Solarhaphaeriom]

Definitely too fast for me, in terms of not letting me get comfortable (even bored) with the current stuff before there's something new out. The constant trickle of releases is a good system, but the rate is too high (for me).

[PG_Feeple]

I agree that they are moving too fast. They need to get their production problems in hand and actually release the stuff from the last 3(!!!) books before inventing more stuff.

Please tell me what models are not out from books that are NOT from Wrath or Domination, please.

[Lord Sessadore]

Please tell me what models are not out from books that are NOT from Wrath or Domination, please.

Ooh! I can answer that one!

Answer is: none. Warmachine is waiting for the Avenger and Demolisher kits from Wrath, and that's it. There's a bit more from Dominion, but it's only been out for 6 or 8 months.

From all I hear about other companies, PP is doing a pretty good job of keeping up to date on stuff released in the books vs. stuff released in 3D.

[jandrese]

Not one person mentioned Warjacks of Renown in the list of things PP have added in? Damn I feel old

The Warjacks of Renown were just warjacks that happened to be FA2. Expensive warjacks that you would rarely take more than 1 of anyway. There weren't any special rules for them or anything, just an FA that didn't even really matter. FA 1 might have mattered a little bit, but FA 2 was basically the same as FA U.

[katadder]

people keep saying its the standard release pattern but when hordes was 1st released didnt it go warmachine book one year, hordes book the next?
this gave people time to catch up and actually meant all the releases from a book were out before the next one came, i mean there are still releases from wrath not out yet colossals is coming soon. and us hordes players are waiting on quite a few things still that we wont get to test before having to face colossals with them.

[2LiveIs2Die]

No, they are not.
Especially considering since the release of mk2 they have cut back from releasing a full line of models for each faction each year (casters, jacks, units, uas, solos, etc)

[correlation2]

The 1 year on 1 year off thing on average brought a large number of releases each time. Large enough that the new system of releasing content every half a year or whatever they're doing will probably equal out to around the same number of releases. It's just spacing them out better.

And the release schedule really just can't come fast enough, in my opinion. There are so many units that could use inventive WAs or UAs to improve or augment the way they play. So many solos that could be made. So many warcasters and army playstyles left as of yet unfulfilled.

These things you adapt to pretty easily, tournament or otherwise. No one gets into WM and starts complaining that the ATGM UA is too complicated. Sure it's good, sure it augments and enhances what the unit does - but it isn't hard to grasp.

Big things like Colossals you don't really need to worry about. It's not a matter of "BEs just came out, now PP just drew up some Colossals!" as much as it is a matter of Colossals coming out after 10 years. If you trace back to Superiority even when Colossals were first on PP's radar I think that's 6-7 years. If you can't handle something big coming along every decade or so I don't really know what to tell you.

Let's be 100% honest. PP could have something RIDICULOUS sounding drawn up in their office right now as an idea that the game and production won't support for another 5 years. That doesn't mean the idea doesn't exist. PP doesn't just sit there at work making a model a week and tossing it out at you. They're working hard RIGHT NOW on releases we aren't going to even see for a long time. Always working towards tomorrow, that's how they are.

[Kevin949]

A good UA can fix any unit. Look at the scattergunners!

And the Blighted Legionnaires!

[Kevin949]

A good UA can fix any unit. Look at the scattergunners!

That's very true, and is certainly an option that PP can explore with many of the less than stellar units out there. Which is why I like this game so much more than [the game that shall not be named].

[Kevin949]

I know I'd be pretty upset if all of the sudden PP told me "You know those Long Gunner models you like to play, but everyone says they are severely over-priced, and no one ever plays them? Yeah, you aren't allowed to field them anymore."

One of the best features of Warmahordes over some other games is that PP doesn't "retire" models. Sure, some models don't get fielded much, particularly a lot of the artillery units, but they never tell us that we flat out cannot use them. People will always find creative ways to make these less-than-stellar models serve a purpose in their army.

I can understand that. I was pretty bummed when the new release for my codex in another game had me lose a unit. I certainly could have still used the models as proxies but I hate proxies. I didn't stop playing the game though, because so much other new stuff came out.

I'm just saying that for new people (like me) to come into this game out of the blue, it's very overwhelming at first. Having the armies just continue to grow and grow when there is already a plethora of options as it is, it'll just exacerbate that and it could shy away potential new customers that aren't as familiar to war-gaming as others.

I mean, the warcaster options alone are just nuts! It's great that there are so many options but man, when you can only really field one it kinda feels like "well, this guys works for everything so why bother buying the others?".

I get it for people that like to play competitively, but that's probably 25% of the people that play the game. Maybe more, but I wouldn't imagine it would be that much. Rather, out of all the people I've met in person that play warmachine, none of them play competitions.

Anyway, I don't think PP is moving too fast at all. I'm loving the new releases.