Khador Mirror Match

[Flora]

How do you guys deal with the khador mirror match? It's almost never talked about on the forums and the people in my play group never seem to want to play it ("Khador on Khador is boring"), so I don't have a lot of experience with it. Now that i'm starting to get more into the competitive side of the game i'm trying to dig up all the info I can about it but there isn't much. Coming from a competitive card game background, i'm familiar with having to do mirror matches, as it's one of the bigger continuous discussions in those communities (you need to be able to beat yourself!).

So how do you guys deal with it? Hitting def 17/19 can be really difficult for our infantry since we don't really have a way to boost attack rolls reliably.

I've found pSorcha's feat turn to be great for infantry clearing, but she really needs that for assassination. So what else is there?

[PG_Pyrodude32]

Knockdown - Use Tempest and hit a warjack, wardog, or infantry model close by. Then bomb the absolute crap out of her - or use a warjack to charge, can't take free strikes from a knocked down model

This is also where a Kodiak or Maradur, etc. can shine. Use Double hand throws to hit the high def model (low deviations will still contact the base causing a knockdown - or slams to slam another model into Sorcha.

[quindraco]

eVlad's army can boost melee attack rolls and reach effective MAT 15 (13 with Hand of Fate) if it has to. pVlad's army is less accurate for any specific model but more accurate in general and loves to bring AOE spam.

[Peg leg Pete]

i've run into this more and more recently. Khador seems to be the most popular faction in my meta. The answer really depends, for me, on what KIND of Khador they are playing. Is it high DEF/low ARM kayazy rushing across the field? Is it slow-moving, high ARM men-o-war moving in slow, ranked formations? Is it winterguard spam?

from your question, it sounds like a combination of the first and third option. If that's what's happening, you have a couple of options. Something that may work, especially against Kayazy, is to use destroyers, Black Ivan, or Behemoth to drop the bomb on the opponent from range. This should force him to spread apart. If that does happen, you can rush your own infantry in (possibly more kayazy) to engage them one-on-one where they won't get their Gang benefit.

Alternatively, you could rush your own men into combat to get tangled up with them and shoot your own men in the back, again with AoE's. As far as getting boosted attacks from our infantry, take a look at Joe. So far, none of my komrades have gone WGI, but i dread the day that they do because of what he does for them.

[rivenwyrm]

We have one of the most reliable ways to boost attack rolls in the game: Kovnik Joe.

Khador on Khador is pretty brutal. I've played it in a few tourneys, but unless you're talking a literal mirror match (eSorscha vs eSorscha), the casters will heavily inform how the match goes.

If you want to be well prepared for it, pVlad/eVlad are good because they can boost to hit, and are very resilient casters so a stray kayazy or WGI blunderbuss won't kill them. OW is good too since Khador is very vulnerable to control, and our best infantry is vulnerable to POW 8s, however she cannot boost to hit well so you have to bring something to actually kill the infantry you lockdown (i.e., WGI + joe).

Also, eEyriss makes us very sad since Iron Flesh is often important to our strategy, however relying on her can be bad because she's often 3 pts of dead weight.

[Flora]

I should have made it clearer that i'm not too worried about the armor, we can deal with that just fine, it's the defense i'm worried about.

I guess I want really thinking about Joe with this question. He does help a lot, but even with him the winterguard still needs a 12 to hit itself or the kayazy, unless you CRA, which is still above average. If you strike first you have to deal with tough on their end and they don't have to worry about it from you.

I only specifically mentioned pSorcha because it's the only reliable thing I've found to work. Bringing one bombard from black Ivan or a destroyer isn't very effective in reality as you can't trust the deviations. Two bombards is significantly better, but bringing two destroyers/black Ivan is a lot of points. Behemoth is a great jack and fills that role brilliantly.

I guess I could bring a devastator or demolisher, but I don't really like the idea of sinking 10 points into them for them to drop to armor 17 after they attack.

[Col_Festus]

Kovnik Joe + Rifle Corps + pVlad I'd imagine would wreck havoc on a winterguard death star. You out threat it and can easily kill it as it bobs and weaves at you. You hit defense 15 on average with just boosted attack rolls from joe, add in signs and portents and you'd be hitting them pretty easily. Back them up with a mortar under signs and portents and a gun carriage and I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to mince all that infantry. Just fire a few of those big AOE's at the officer and standard first and you'll be in good shape. The one thing that Khador infantry is still pretty vulnerable too is massed amounts of AOE spam.

Also the devastator is great for most matches just for holding objectives. Bringing one to clear our half a death star, or most of a kayzay unit would well be worth his points, especially if he clips the underboss.

[comrade]

I don't recall ever losing to another Khador army. However, that also means that several other Khador players have lost at least once to another Khador army :P

[bStyker]

IMO Khador bringing Joe & Winterguard of any type don't have accuracy problems. I think that's a non-issue.

The issue will be how to keep Joe Alive given that your opponent will be aiming for them with everything they've got.

I think Col_Festus has proposed some excellent ideas.

Best,

[ForestZ]

I would imaging 2 mortars would be effective at giving high def/low arm infantry a bad day. Since you're guaranteed to miss anyways, they're cheaper than a 'jack and at AOE4 more likely to hit on a deviation and harder to spread out to avoid.

[thrasymacus]

Mortars for sure. As of yet we have nothing immune to blast damage. Also the gun Carriage seems like it would clear out our small based infantry, terrorize Widow Makers. What would be really strange is a Devastator vs Devastator standoff. Each would keep the other in check just about perfectly.

[Sining]

demolishers are immune to blast damage