Zaal 35 points list

[Gazzor1]

Hi all,

Have been mainly a WM guy but was very impressed by a Zaal list that I've played against twice. First game Gorten was killed when a Krea (The rubbish blind warbeast that was rolling 4 dice to hit and 4 dice to damage with 4 attacks on feat + last stand turn. Pretty killy...)
Second game won on scenario, but was still impressed as I lost a Slayer and a Warwitch to 4 last stand swordsmen. Seems like an awesome spell to make any kind of model dangerous.
Hex Blast also appears to be awesome as I can get rid of nasty stuff like Iron Flesh (hitting IF winterguard on 8+ if Krea within 2" of them and it uses Paralytic Aura). Also, is nice to just blast out 3 3" AOEs per turn if required. Can always shoot one of my own guys in the back to get rid of Crippling Grasp and such spells.

The aim of my list below is to take lots of chaff to fuel feat turn and power up the soul collecting stuff in the list.

Zaal & Kovaas
Basilisk Krea
Basilisk Krea
Aptimus Marketh
10 Immortals
10 Praetorian Swordsmen
10 Praetorian Swordsmen
Ancestral Guardian
Ancestral Guardian
Tyrant Commander + Standard

Big issue is only 6 FURY potential per turn, but Marketh can upkeep spells with souls and Zaal can always slice himself if required.
Marketh is there to cycle Last Stand between multiple units/ models.

10 Immortals - can make effective ARM21 vs. ranged with Kreas and Inviolable Resolve, helping vs. Gunlines. Ancestral Guardians and Vengeance help with speed. I did think that 10 Nihilators with Last Stand on could be amusing, but as pointed out in another thread, Immortals with Last Stand on can make super killy attacks with Vengeance and then make normal attacks with extra dice before being destroyed at end of turn. Still, bersekers with MAT7 with extra dice on attack and damage rolls with reach weapons could be good. And they want to die anyway.

2 x 10 Swordsmen. Cheap and cheerful. And can be made very killy with Last Stand. If they die, it's helping feat turn. If they don't die they must be doing well at whatever it is they're doing, so no issues.

2 Ancestral Guardians. Speed up the Immortals. Loaded up with 3 Souls and with Last Stand on (Gosh, there I go again...) one can pump out 4 MAT 8 boosted attacks averaging 24 points per hit, which will put the hurting on a lot of things. And when one dies kovaas pops out.

Kovaas - is it really only on the "Turn" he appears he can't activate? So as long as he appears in enemy turn, you can use him normally?

Tyrant + Standard. Seems quite killy. Fearless for the Swordsmen is nice. Pathfinder is nice. Also, Battle plans are not actions? They just happen?

So, 1-2 waves of chaff to get stuck in, followed up by the surviving models souped up with the feat.

Very vulnerable to area denial such as cyclone templates, but against Cygnar I can always use an alternate list (Set at a later time) with more heavy stuff in.


Gaz

[r2d2]

i dont think you need all those swordsmen. I know you need a lot of souls for your feat turn, but you also need someone to put them on. Thats why i like karn with zaal, couse he can really beat some faces.

[PG_yaro86ster]

I would drop one unit of swordsmen for Hakaar + Swordsmen UA

[dommer01]

Savages. Lots and lots of Savages. On feat turn with Last Stand they are wrecking heavies and who cares if they die? You just used a 5 pt model to wreck someone's heavy. Fair trade in my opinion.

[PG_yaro86ster]

Dommer- you get the same, even better with Ancestrals.

[Gazzor1]

Cheers for the comments guys. So the basic army design is sound? Immortals rather than Nihilators?

I see that the UA is good for getting more from the 2 attacks per guy. Hakaar looks dead killy, but a Drake gives me some ranged versatility as well as getting each Krea up to potentially MAT6 + 4D6 attack roll, POW12 + 5D6 damage per attack on feat + last stand turn.

Is the Tyrant worth it you think? Pathfinder is good after all.

Gaz

[dommer01]

Dommer- you get the same, even better with Ancestrals.

I think we can get a bit more out of the Savage with its potential range with a Gladiator. Not having to spend a potential attack to do so makes it even better. Also, they have a lot more survivability IMO. I guess I may be going off my personal opinion but at my meta, when they see me put Zaal on the table, my opponent immediately goes after every AG on the table

Also, what's stopping you from taking both? Its what I do.

[Nolimon]

I like this list, it is a lot of boosted shooting.
Army Name: Zaal Laserlist
Skorne
Tier 4: Immortal Host
35+5 points, 28 models

Supreme Aptimus Zaal +5 points
* Kovaas
* Archidon 7 points
* Basilisk Krea 4 points
* Aptimus Marketh 3 points

4x Extoller Soulward 2 points each
Hakaar the Destroyer 4 points
6 Immortals 5 points
6 Immortals 5 points
6 Praetorian Swordsmen 4 points

Additional Rules

Ancestral Guardian solos gain Advance Deployment.
Extollers each begin with three soul tokens.
The Kovaas can begin the game in play.

[Gazzor1]

Tyrant Evil, "I want Extollers, with frikkin lazers on their heads!".

Nice list. I assume that the Archidon is to give some mobility to Hakaar or some other hard hitter? You've eschewed the obvious choice of Cyclops Raider for Snipe antics. 8" range does seem a bit low IMO.
Other big issue is that they're only POW6 vs undead and constructs, making them, it seems to me, more anti hordes than generally useful shooting.

How has the list performed for you?

Gaz

[Gazzor1]

Here's a new list that I've come up with.

Supreme Aptimus Zaal
Aptimus Marketh
Krea
Krea
Drake
Drake
6 Beast Handlers
10 Swordsmen
10 Swordsmen
10 Karax

Biggest flaw is no way to get Kovaas out to play, but I think that it has a good mix of numbers, mid game kill power with last stand swordsmen doing the business vs a good variety of targets.

Krea under last stand and feat*, engaging same target as a drake, after getting whipped by beast master gets a whopping MAT4 + 4D6+2 to hit and ST14 + 5D6 damage per attack. That's hitting DEF20 half the time and doing circa 32 damage per hit. Even a closed Devastator will have trouble against that.
+2 DEF and ARM vs. shooting is also useful, as is -2DEF to nearby enemies if required.
*Assuming lots of casualties taken.

Drakes give utility in that they have magic attacks and a POW14 spray shot. They also rile up the Kreas.

Swordsmen under last stand just rock the house, as well as being great at killing chaff off.

Karax are somewhat survivable vs. light shooting with DEF14 and ARM22 with Kreas nearby and in shield wall with Inviolable Resolve cast on them. Also help against blasts, which is generally the best way to kill off numerous numbers of light troops. Sadly though 5" shield wall shuffle per turn is poor.

Beastmasters, as well as buffing beasts, are also awesome vs. some hard targets, such as ARM21 Forgeguard under arcane shield and defensive line, due to anatomical precision. Also gives extra efficiency to the beasts as they can charge without requiring being forced.

Aptimus Marketh is there cos he's just really useful.


Gaz

[Nolimon]

Yes it is a list against Hordes Armies. I`ve got 12 Immortals the half of them with ARM 19. They are a nice screen for my extoller`s. And the Extoller`s have DEF 14 that is not bad.

[Gazzor1]

Fair enough. Thanks for the ideas. I'll proxy them up in a few games and decide what to go with.


Gaz

[Earthcrosser599]

As far as the original list...

Why Krea x2 instead of Krea x1 and Shaman x1? If you're not up against guns the Shaman can at least blast things with his carebearstare. He can also occasionally prove helpful with Craft Talisman and his animus, while situational, is REALLY good when it's needed.

I think Nihilators trump Immortals. They're better at killing off enemy troops and better at surviving charges. On paper they also look to help avoid a few slightly complicated order of activation issues in terms of providing souls to Guardians. I'd also take Nihilators over Praetorians.

[Gazzor1]

I think that I was fixated on Kreas as one killed Gorten when I played against Zaal...

For the second list, was thinking 2 would be good with 2 Drakes as they get killier due to flank. Could give people trouble. 36 infantry with various degree of choppiness backed up by 4 useful warbeasts that can be buffed sky high when required to be.

[carmachu]

Big issue is only 6 FURY potential per turn, but Marketh can upkeep spells with souls and Zaal can always slice himself if required.
Marketh is there to cycle Last Stand between multiple units/ models.

Maybe I just dont understand what your saying.....but Zaal has FURY 7 stat. Both on book and card.

[Triumph Of Man]

I think that I was fixated on Kreas as one killed Gorten when I played against Zaal...

For the second list, was thinking 2 would be good with 2 Drakes as they get killier due to flank. Could give people trouble. 36 infantry with various degree of choppiness backed up by 4 useful warbeasts that can be buffed sky high when required to be.

Your issue is the Kreas are going to be in amongst troops providing aura protection. Finding charge lanes for them will be problematic.

And again, you really don't want or need 2 Kreas. Kreas are for protecting slow units such as shieldwalls or beasts. If you want to play a Brick army where everything is stupid hard to kill go have a look at Xerxis. Zaal is about trading models.

You want cheap hard hitters that can make use of last stand. Savages fit this bill as do Ancestral Guardians. Being able to sling a couple of AGs or a Savage into 8-12pt enemy heavies and wreck them on feat turn is what Zaal likes doing best. Trade your cheap models for expensive models.

Supreme Aptimus Zaal
Aptimus Marketh
Krea
Krea
Drake
Drake
6 Beast Handlers
10 Swordsmen
10 Swordsmen
10 Karax

And again, how are you going to get your Kovaas out? You're paying points for it but you're not using it. You might not think you're paying for it but you are. A warlock's companion is factored into the number of warbeast points he's given.

[Thamarite Merc]

Maybe I just dont understand what your saying.....but Zaal has FURY 7 stat. Both on book and card.

He only got two Krea in his list to leach from