Ideas for incremental airbrush upgrading?

[polypusher]

I borrowed one of these crappy airbrush kits from a friend to try it out, see what airbrushing felt like in general. I can immediately see why siphon feed sucks. The connection between the bottle and the gun was terrible. I dropped it once, leaving a line of black dots on my carpet. If my wife cared about this carpet, I'd be in deep :P But I liked the results I got using this starter product.

I can't really go for a full $300-$500 product right away. I was considering grabbing the $80 gravity feed version of the same kit and then upgrade pieces over the next year. I'm hoping someone can describe what I'd get out of upgrading each piece so I know what to swap out first.

My impressions of the cheap kit I'm borrowing now:

The gun- Its all-metal, has dual action. When I pull the trigger back, I can find gaps where for some reason no paint comes through. Mostly I have the feeling that even though its supposed to be an analog control of how much paint is coming through, it really ends up being all or nothing and I can pretty frequently get a sudden burst of paint. Im not sure how much of that is caused by the gun and how much is because of the compressor. So I'm getting fine results applying primer and base coating, even some basic blending is going ok. I had pretty good control painting a base without getting much on the model itself, just a bit on the boots. Its encouraging that I didnt have to mask a whole model. Thats decent results for $80 but I want more control and consistency.

The compressor- I think it's tankless so I think some of the unevenness in the paint-shooting could be due to that. There's a water trap attached to the pressure gauge assembly but I have still gotten spurts of water while I paint. That's got to stop. It's fairly quiet but still louder than I'd like. I'd like to not bother my wife as much while I paint.

So what are your thoughts? I could get the best all-in one kit $200 can buy and upgrade the gun and compressor later. Should I do this, or sit on the $200 and go whole hog on a $500 kit later?

Random extra questions:
1 -What is a quick disconnect decoupler useful for?
2 -Is Iwata's long coiled cord a better condensation management system than a water trap?

[Karnstein]

okay, couple of random comments. I won't tell you "buy THAT gun", simply because a) there isn't THAT gun and b) I'm from Germany and it's a whole different market (we get Harder Steenbeck "pretty cheap" and pay absurd prices for stuff like iwata and badger... which is the total opposite to the US market, where H&S are not cheap but badgers are).

1. You want a gravity feed gun and one not made in china, like the one packed with that amazon deal.
2. you want one of the following needle sizes, don't bother with anything smaller: 0.3mm, 0.35mm or 0.4mm
3. you don't necessarily need to buy the most expensive gun from a decent brand. A entry level gun works okay too...
4. if possible you want a gun where replacement parts are available locally (or at least pretty cheap on the net with decent shipping fees).
5. Quick disconnet saves you time. you won't need to unscrew the hose, but it isn't a mandatory item. On the other hand they are pretty cheap anyway...

Regarding the compressor: I don't think you necessarily need something bigger than a single piston compressor, but you want one with a tank. Not only does it keep the compressor from running non-stop, it also provides a stable air flow and helps capturing water.

Oh and a coiled cord is no replacement for a working moisture trap on the compressor itself...

[polypusher]

I saw a good review of the Harder & Steenbeck's guns over the weekend. I see similar prices on all 3 brands on Amazon, at least at their lower ends. Do the different paint cup sizes have an impact on anything but the capacity of the gun? I can picture worrying about sloshing paint out (unless there's a cover?)

[mathieu]

I saw a good review of the Harder & Steenbeck's guns over the weekend.

Which one of their guns? If you see the Evolution or the Infinity (essentially the same gun, except the Infinity is prettier and has a few extra gadgets -- that are essentially useless for miniature painting) for a price you can afford, get it. They are very good airbrushes, very well designed, accurate, comfortable to handle, easy to completely take apart when you need to thoroughly clean them, easy to put back together,...

As for the upgrading idea, my opinion is that the compressor is where you should always consider incremental upgrades. You can very easily get away with a $50 10gal tank + regulator for a long time. You can refill the tank with a cheap tire compressor or at a gas station -- 15min will get you a continuous 2h of airbrushing and the tank won't leak so you can refill and work with that air weeks later. Plus you get the added benefit of a large tank (more continuous airflow), and of not having any moving part when working (more silent than the most expensive compressors out there).
That's a setup that is easy to upgrade because if/when you ever feel the need to work longer periods, or have a more silent compressor attached to it, you'll still be able to use that tank on the new compressor and benefit from all the advantages of a large tank.
On the other hand, there is no point in incrementally getting better airbrushes. Unless of course you can't afford one, but then I'd simply advise to save and wait until you can. You get the excellent Evolution new for less than $150. You'll never reuse your cheaper ones once you get a quality tool, so the money spent on them will be lost.

Bottom line is, nobody ever should spend $500 on an airbrush kit. I've worked with the setup I just described (10gal tank, regulator, Evolution -- the whole thing cost me a little over $200) for over 5 years now and have never felt the need to change anything to it. Some airbrushes are better at doing very small details than the Evolution or Infinity, but 1) these two guns are very good at everything, 2) those other brushes cost a lot more, and 3) small details with an airbrush always look terrible anyway, you have to use a regular brush for that.
The only drawback is having to inflate the tank every once in a while. Which is noisy if you use a tire compressor, but you can alleviate that a lot with a cooler or a polystyrene box.

[Gremlingsp]

I got my latest from TCP global. I got a badger renegade and a compressor from TCP. I'm not a fan of the compressor but the airbrush is very nice. I've also used an Iwata eclipse and its a nice brush too. I agree you don't need to drop a ton of money on one off the bat. My first brush was a PAAsche double action siphon feed with a little testors tankless compressor. It was great for basecoating and general work. I think they make a gravity feed version of it.

[polypusher]

Thats great advice Mathieu, thanks. I see a few Evolutions for good prices on Amazon. Strangely, two of the cheapest ones have very small nozzles, only 0.2mm which is not recommended by Karnstein. A more expensive Infinity has a .4 nozzle but thats on the big side. Would there be any problem just getting a new .3 mm nozzle? A quick search didnt reveal any for the Evolutions specifically and I'd be reluctant to have to buy replacement parts directly from a German company if only because of shipping costs.

Edit: Oh and the H&S advice was generic for the brand. The reviewer thought they just made better guns overall compared to Iwata due to Iwata being on top for too long, getting that 1st place laziness I guess

[Karnstein]

Thats great advice Mathieu, thanks. I see a few Evolutions for good prices on Amazon. Strangely, two of the cheapest ones have very small nozzles, only 0.2mm which is not recommended by Karnstein. A more expensive Infinity has a .4 nozzle but thats on the big side. Would there be any problem just getting a new .3 mm nozzle? A quick search didnt reveal any for the Evolutions specifically and I'd be reluctant to have to buy replacement parts directly from a German company if only because of shipping costs.

Edit: Oh and the H&S advice was generic for the brand. The reviewer thought they just made better guns overall compared to Iwata due to Iwata being on top for too long, getting that 1st place laziness I guess

You can' fit a 0.3mm needle inside a H&S Evo. While you can swap needles with most H&S guns, you need to swap both the needle and the fitting nozzle. The only guns H&S sells with a 0.3 nozzle are from the Hansa range, which is kind of a low-range choice, and the nozzles are not compatible with the Evo range.

Don't get me wrong, the H&S guns are good (but not necessarily superior to similar priced iwata or badger guns...) and easy to disassemble&clean. If I would live in the US, I would go for something like a badger krome or any mid-range iwata with a big needle (0.3-0.35) and a big cup.

0.4 needle size isn't to big anyway... if you want you can get pretty fine lines with that needle too (I own a H&S Evolution Silverline 2in1 and my 0.2 needle is collecting dust most of the time...)...maybe I can find some time tomorrow and spray some line with the different needles I have and upload some pictures...

EDIT: You can buy covers for all H&S cups regardless of the size, but I do think the small cups aren't worth the hassle unless you very small areas. If you use the airbrush mainly for applying stuff like primer, varnish, basecoats and some quick zenithal highlights on whole units or bigger models you don't want anything smaller than a 5ml cup. The 2ml cup that came with my Evo collects dust too...along with the smaller needle. ^^

[Grimmnar]

Search the forums here for "airbrush" and you will have some previous posts. Watch this YouTube vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NxHXwOWn94
In a nutshell i can say this.
Prepare to spend a couple of hundred dollars.
Get a dual action brush. (There is no one brush for all tasks type of brush. What works for you wont for sure work for me.)
Gravity feed.
Compressor with moisture trap. Never use the canned air. A holding tank is optional.
Badger, Iwata, H&S all good brands and there are others. Make sure to look over warranty information as well.
Remember the old saying. If it is too good to be true than it probably is. Don't go cheap. BUT doesn't mean you have to go expensive.
I have an Aztek DA brush i got new from eBay and a small tankless compressor from Harbor Freight. Nice starting out.
Be sure to do some internet searching for some tips and hints. I love this tube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Buypainted This guy is amazing with an airbrush. There are many many others. Don't just use one source for information.
Got any more questions hit me up with a PM. :-)

Grimm

[Hodap]

Prepare to spend a couple of hundred dollars.

There is no reason to spend this much. I use a $16 ebay airbrush and a $40 compressor I got at a DIY store and prefer that setup over using my more expensive airbrushes.

Not coincidentally, the best airbrush mini painter I've seen (buypainted on youtube) uses the same $16 ebay airbrush with results that speak for themselves.

[polypusher]

Is there a brand/model that has an especially good feel on the trigger? The cheap one I was using had no resistance so it was difficult to get less than full power and I had to look at it to even tell how far back I was pulling. Are better brushes spring-loaded like a game controller trigger to give you the sensation of how much paint you're allowing through? I think that would be something I would look for if I had a dozen to try out.

[Hai-pe-neki]

I steal a bit of space on this topic, since my question is about airbrushes!

I'm thinking to buy an aibrush for giving to my minis priming/basecoating and zenital sprays to help the subsequent painting. So i'm not looking for super-precise airbrushes to do, for example complex details and decorating surfaces (like motorbike helmets and similar).

With this is mind, do you think that a simple and really cheap kit like this one http://www.amazon.com/Multi-purpose-...ef=pd_sbs_ac_3 would do a decent job, or even for a such simple task it lacks something important? Edit:Well no ok, read just now all the bad review about this one!

So what about something just a bit more pricey? http://www.amazon.com/Airbrushing-Pe...ef=pd_sbs_ac_1

[polypusher]

I used that 2nd kit (I used siphon feed variety it is not recommended!)for just that this weekend. It worked great for spraying on primer, base coating and shading. I painted some bases too and got pretty good results. I think it would serve that purpose just fine.

[Valander]

I steal a bit of space on this topic, since my question is about airbrushes!

I'm thinking to buy an aibrush for giving to my minis priming/basecoating and zenital sprays to help the subsequent painting. So i'm not looking for super-precise airbrushes to do, for example complex details and decorating surfaces (like motorbike helmets and similar).

With this is mind, do you think that a simple and really cheap kit like this one http://www.amazon.com/Multi-purpose-...ef=pd_sbs_ac_3 would do a decent job, or even for a such simple task it lacks something important? Edit:Well no ok, read just now all the bad review about this one!

So what about something just a bit more pricey? http://www.amazon.com/Airbrushing-Pe...ef=pd_sbs_ac_1

The first one looks like the gun would be acceptable for priming/sealing work (I have one very similar, and it does fine), but the compressor is probably too cheap, honestly. It doesn't look like it has a good pressure regulator and moisture trap. I recommend not skimping on the compressor if you can afford it. The second looks like the same gun, and a slightly better compressor, though it doesn't have a tank so it will remain on pretty much at all times. I'd be a little concerned with the second compressor's operating range; it states 12-35 psi, and I frequently go down to 10 or so when doing finer lines. If that's not a concern, it might be ok for you (if you're mainly going to be doing priming and zenithal work, it will likely be ok).

[volt_ron]

Since we are talking airbrushes...how's this kit?
http://www.tcpglobal.com/airbrushdep...ABD+KIT-4247-T

Also how are airbrushes on small based models like warcasters?

[NotInKansas1911]

Since we are talking airbrushes...how's this kit?
http://www.tcpglobal.com/airbrushdep...ABD+KIT-4247-T

Also how are airbrushes on small based models like warcasters?

I hear really good things about Iwata, though I have only used Badger, and currently use a Patriot model.

Depending on what you would be spraying, airbrushes are great for heavy infantry like man-o-war units or units with smooth surface areas like storm blades and storm guard. When I played that other tabletop miniatures game I would spray my marines because it was quick and easy to get a uniform color over most of the armor and it always turned out better.

The only thing I hate is spraying a dark color where lighter colors will be, but that is personal preference. I only prime in white or gray for that reason.

[volt_ron]

It'd be mostly for Menoth and possibly Legion. Lots of infantry on the Menoth side thought (exemplars of all types).

[mathieu]

I see a few Evolutions for good prices on Amazon. Strangely, two of the cheapest ones have very small nozzles, only 0.2mm which is not recommended by Karnstein.

I for one only use a 0.2mm and, occasionally, a 0.4mm. I'm not sure what the reasoning behind not getting anything smaller than a 0.3mm really is. You certainly do not need a wide spray for miniature painting, and I have certainly been happy to have a 0.2 nozzle to work on the eyes of some of my larger models.

It probably clogs a little easier, but all of them will clog if you aren't careful. It's never been significantly more of a problem for the 0.2 than the 0.4 for me. As far as I'm concerned, the bottom line is you can do everything a 0.4mm does with a 0.2mm, but not the other way around. Plus you can always get a 0.4 needle + nozzle later

One thing I see in Grimmnar comment that I'd like to correct:
"Compressor with moisture trap. Never use the canned air. A holding tank is optional."
While I agree that you do need a moisture trap (they are often included in the pressure regulator), and shouldn't use canned air, I don't think a tank is optional. Unlike what most people think, the main interest of a tank is not to have your compressor run less by filling it and turning off. The tank acts as a buffer between the compressor and the gun. You can spend hundred of dollars on a high end compressor, you'll always have fluctuations in the air flow due to the moving parts inside of it, the electricity network,... And if you ever work on some smallish detail with your gun, the last thing you want is to have the slightest change in your airflow!
Even a small-size tank buffers out a lot of these fluctuations, and is therefore invaluable to do precise work with an airbrushing. I for one went the other way, got a large tank and considered the compressor "optional".
But then again, if you only plan on doing base coats and zenithal highlights you don't need the sort of buffer I'm talking about

[kc7sbp]

I went with http://www.harborfreight.com/3-gallo...sor-95275.html and http://www.harborfreight.com/deluxe-...kit-95810.html got a cheap filter, attached a quick release to it, and got the small quick release for the airbrush end. It seems to do fine for starter stuff so far. Admittedly, I only use the airbrush to prime my models for now. I am also able to work on technique, proper thinning of paint, and various basics without the fear that I'm going to damage an expensive airbrush. The air compressor has worked fine thus far, but I also have various uses for it around the home. I feel like I'm pretty well set and when I'm ready to upgrade my airbrush all I need to do is pick one and buy it.

[polypusher]

Does it have a minimum psi? How loud is it? Looks like a nice solution

[kc7sbp]

Has a regulator built in, no real minimum pressure, but I haven't tried going much below 15psi. it's relatively loud, but with a 3 gal tank on it the compressor turns on and off depending on how quickly I deplete the pressure. I've seen it go on sale as low as $39.

[polypusher]

I think I am decided on this:

Brush: H&S Evolution Silverline Solo for $134 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A23ADOZFIJNPFB
Compressor: TC 20T 1/5th Horsepower compressor with Tank for $109 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A23ADOZFIJNPFB

I havent pulled the trigger yet, I need to wait till payday anyway. Thought on the airbrush?

[mathieu]

Thought on the airbrush?

I've had two of these for 5 years. Best miniature-related purchase I ever made.

[polypusher]

Sold!

Thanks!