The Wrecking Ball

[baronvonchaos]

I decided to write a condensed tactical analysis of the Mangler as I have some free time and it?s my favorite jack. It?s just a crushing jack that does a fantastic job and gives you some options if need be. The purpose of this thread is to give a general outline of what the Mangler does with notes below in successive posts from the community to add in their +1 from their experience/expertise.

Love this jack.

Baseline stats:
Average for Merc Jacks. Generally close to Cygnaran jacks for spd/def/arm and damage output. The punching spike is a great, straight forward weapon as opposed to just a fist, also it has a chain weapon with thresher which makes it prime for taking out models in shield wall.

This jack has 2 basic attacks. And the highest 2 basic attacks of all the Merc jacks (talking non-Rhulic jacks). Rover tries to compete with 3 melee attacks, but doesn?t have reach.

Abilities:
As we stated, Thresher. I greatly enjoy busting through a unit of shield walled Man-O-War?s and negating their shield advantage. It?s been excellent for clearing out those ?walls? of medium based units too (Fennblades/Boomhowler/etc.) with its reach and high pow. Having access to a reach-thresher large based chain weapon model is why this model makes it into many of my lists.

Chain weapon: Boon in its own right as shielded models can pop up anywhere and whether it?s a Bouncer bumping you or a Revenger pushing you an inch each time to a Lancer frying your cortex, it?s nice to have the option to subvert that. It also brings a Spriggan down to arm 19 which is a great roll -2.

Also the punching spike is an open fist. The 1h throw is a great way to move models around (to put it very generally). I?ve used it to throw a model out of a zone for the game winning scenario point. I?ve used it to throw the Commodore. I?ve used it to clear a solo out of an area and clear a charge lane. There are many neat things you can do with throws. Not to mention weapon locks. I weapon lock Seethers and other ?chain attack: ?? models. Don?t forget power attacks.

Synergies:
Any support solos are well loved by any jack but we?ll list them for the same of listing them. Aiyanna&Holt, Ragman, Lanyssa, Gorman, and others. Anything that boosts to hit or damage is always loved, but that?s generic to any model really.

Magnus1: Excellent target for Iron Aggression. This jack becomes a murderous missile of death being able to charge for free, having 3 focus on it as well, and boosted attack rolls. Thresher becomes insane. Trampling is fantastic. The Mangler becomes quite stalwart with Temper Metal as well. Arm 21 is nothing to shrug about.

Magnus 2: Haven?t played him much, but I know synergies exist with Calamity, bullet dodger, and mobility. A speedier Mangler is always greatly used.
Bart: This jack is great with Bart and Batten. It makes him ARM 22 which is a nice tough nut to crack (by merc standards). All around a good beat stick with anti-troop abilities.

Shae: The Talion charter lacks in heavy hitting (aside from the Commodore) so bringing a face smasher like this to the list makes sense. Especially with Shae?s spell Coup de Main to give the free charge and at +2?.

Bart: Bart likes this Jack because it gets fun with batten down the hatches. It just gets so tough to take out.

Ashlynn: Haven?t played much highborne, but I?m sure she?d love a jack for Quicken (in some cases) or even distraction to lower a unit?s def for thresher. The Mangler is a good stand alone beat stick, but with Ashlynn, her tao is troops so a Nomad may be a more efficient use of points.

Fiona, Macbain, Damiano, I don?t have so I can?t speculate much. If someone wants to add in things they?ve found, that?d be greatly appreciated. Fiona, Macbain, and Damiano all can use a versatile beat stick, but that?s the extent of my analasys. Macbain may like it for fail safe and retaining thresher as well as open fist abilities.

[baronvonchaos]

Compare and contrast:
Comparing 8pt jacks to 8pt jacks. Apples to apples…

Mangler and Mule. Mule is a great jack but its strength is in its ranged attack and hoping to get that critical devastation off. Both are good at clearing troops but with melee and ranged respectively. Take what you need in your list. Having a little ranged is nice, but the Mangler takes the cake in Melee.

Mangler and Rover: Rover is good. A heavier jack and thus lower Def, but not by much. However it has +2 ARM for its shield giving it a 1pt advantage over the Mangler. Given the Manglers straight Melee and ability to hit multiple targets with 1 attack it can win out in melee, not to mention Reach. The Rover comes in right behind it with 3 initial attacks and access to a ranged attack.

Mangler and Mariner: The Mariner and Mangler both have Thresher, but the Mangler has reach. The Mariner, like the Mule, excels at the long range game. If you need that ranged mobile artillery support, you’ll want the Mariner. Otherwise it comes down to armor cracking which the Mangler does much better (in my experience) than the Mariner just for ARM/staying power’s sake. Use the Mariner as a last resort melee model instead of a first strike melee model.

A brief assessment:
Mangler and Nomad: These 2 models are different point scales, but are similar across a few lines. I would field a Nomad when I need a cheap beat stick, I just want to fill out some jack points (casters like Ashlynn and Macbain I see this with the possibility of Damiano on the list as well), and in lists where I already have great anti-infantry/heavy infantry. The Nomad is a solid choice, but fails to do the damage output vs the infantry/heavy infantry swarm. The Mangler pulls ahead vs that and is more versatile. The Nomad is a solid jack choice, but the Mangler is worth every point more in my experience.

What I’ve found in playing the Mangler often:

1. Mat 6 is good, but struggles with a group of def 13+ troops. Thresher is great, but hitting on a 50/50 is frustrating. Hence I recommend Ashlynn’s Distraction, or Magnus1’s Iron Aggression, Magnus2’s Calamity; but that’s good against anything. Boosting that attack roll is important. The P+S is high enough to put good damage on anything much less wreck it. Gorman also is great here too.
2. Being a great melee jack it tends to get blasted to death before it can reach the front lines. It rings in as a ranged focal point from long ranged things like artillery, Defenders/long gunners, etc. So give it a little push to get it up the field whether by cover/concealment or spells. It just helps. The def is relatively low compared to other Merc jacks.

That’s all I can think of for now.

Post away and refrain from unhelpful responses like, “The nomad is better.” The Nomad’s tactica is for that information.

[baronvonchaos]

Reserved for later. I know I'll be making additions and addendums.

[MagnustheJust]

Very giggety write-up so far!!

Fiona, Macbain, Damiano, I don?t have so I can?t speculate much. If someone wants to add in things they?ve found, that?d be greatly appreciated. Fiona, Macbain, and Damiano all can use a versatile beat stick, but that?s the extent of my analasys. Macbain may like it for fail safe and retaining thresher as well as open fist abilities.

With the Main Mustache, the Mangler often turns me into a giggling idjit instead of just a plain one...

Fail Safe on a Mangler pumps it up to armour 21, and crippled systems get ignored... Oh goody!! This really can put a damper on enemy plans, because they need to divert resources to take it out if they lack ways to strip upkeep spells.

[Space Donkey]

Warpath and Damiano's feat make for some sexy Manglin. P+S 20 Thresher with a Chain weapon from a jack that started 13" away mmmmmmm. And he provides a good balance to Rocinante's mixed arms approach allowing you to keep Rocky back a bit to take advantage of that cannon longer before getting stuck in.

[hamsandwich50]

On Fiona, Nonkrion Brand can allow it to thresher through models (instead of only hitting the ones that it can see) so really devastating tightly packed units although it is probably better on a ranged threat but you never know what will happen.

[baronvonchaos]

Regarding Thresher and "LOS" If you have a unit of Sword Knights all bunched up, packed in in front of the base. Since the Mangler is in combat with the SK's they block LOS to the equal or smaller based models behind them. Since the new LOS rules afford any part of the base to any part of the base, the SK's would need to be in b2b just to block attacks being made to the outer row (provided the outer row doesn't have larger base sizes in it.

Though this is just general rules info. Just posting to make sure things are clear (especially to myself).

[Ashcans]

The size of the attackers base does not make any difference for LOS. All the matters is the size of the target and the intervening model. As long as the target is larger than the intervening model, anyone (even a smaller base) can 'look over' the intervening model and see them. If the intervening model is equally sized or larger, it blocks line of sight for anyone.

So the Mangler cannot see over the first line of Sword Knights to attack, but the second row of Sword Knights can look over the first row and see the Mangler.

This is all laid out in Prime, start at page 43.

[John of Arc]

I still feel like you're paying 2 points for thresher, chain weapon and 1 DEF. Most of the Mangler's upgrades over the Nomad seem situational, and I'm worried that it'll end up being a waste compared to a Nomad plus one of our solos. I'll give it a try later,though.

[pattison]

And you also pay for the unlosable ARM19. Sometimes it's a big deal, yes.
First I had the same worries with the Mangler then I started to field it again and again and one of these "nuances" proven to be the decisive factor on each match.
The Mangler looks great, and works great!
Probably my fav. non-rhulic merc jack.

[baronvonchaos]

I still feel like you're paying 2 points for thresher, chain weapon and 1 DEF. Most of the Mangler's upgrades over the Nomad seem situational, and I'm worried that it'll end up being a waste compared to a Nomad plus one of our solos. I'll give it a try later,though.

Hitting more than 1 model with 1 attack can't be situational, HOWEVER it depends on your meta. If your meta runs beast/jack heavy and usually you're in 1 on 1 battles, the nomad is better since it's cheaper. The Mangler shines because it can hit those multiple models with 1 attack. No focus spent. The permanent +1 ARM is nice, and the +1 POW on the fist is nice. Otherwise, yes. The chain weapon deal doesn't come into effect too much, but when you can ignore that shield, it's SUPER nice.

[pattison]

Well the chain weapon comes into effect the most often in my meta.

[John of Arc]

I actually played a 17 point semi-mangled metal yesterday (normal MM, but we both felt like splashing in Sylys as well ) and the Mangler performed well. I was playing eMagnus and my opponent was using eSorscha; I was able to pin her jacks with my feat and get Calamity on the Spriggan and then next turn the Mangler walked up with 4 focus and one rounded it. Not to mention I actually threshered and put a couple points on her Destroyer, too. I was thinking about it after the game, and one nice consequence of Chain Weapon is that, outside of buffs, you almost never have to deal with armor above 20. Since I tend to struggle with armor in my Mercenary armies, I think I'll be bringing him along more often, if for no other reason than to counter things like Centurions and the Avatar.

[sleet01]

Damn it, I was hoping to avoid picking up another Merc 'jack anytime soon. But the Mangler seems like a much better fit for my pMagnus lists than my Mule, and the eruption of Gators players at my local meta has me scrambling for ways to reliably take out close-packed 8-wound infantry.

[Tucker]

MacBain and a Mangler go great together. Fail Safe keeps it good until the last drop, but in my experience Fortune is the better spell to cast as it makes Thresher into a real threat, allowing the Mangler to annihilate DEF 14 and lower infantry with ease. Reach is also a great ability to use in conjunction with Energize and Jack Hammer - Mangler charges and kills something, then MacBain Energizes it deeper into enemy lines and Jack Hammers to kill more things, rerolling misses with Fortune.

Damiano can do similar things with to help the Mangler with Warpath, letting it kill some stuff and then shuffle further forward to kill more stuff, or kill stuff and then backpedal out of retaliation range. And Damiano's feat is obviously excellent with it. Most importantly a Mangler can be happy with a single focus, which is nice as I often find Damiano has one, sometime two, focus left over after upkeeping spells, casting Deadeye, and giving Rocinante focus for his gun. It's just a good fit for his battlegroup, though I'm also coming to like the Nomad with the good Captain.

It's okay with Ashlynn, as Quicken can give it decent DEF against shooting and a large threat ranges, while Roulette helps Thresher attacks.

I'm not sure if it's two points better than the Nomad, but it's certainly a decent warjack.

[John of Arc]

A good comparison for the Mangler, actually, are the Cygnar alternate chassis jacks. It has a similar statline, and pretty comparable weapons; just a different role. Honestly, its biggest problem is the Nomad. The Nomad is just such a crazy good deal for your points, it's absurd.

[MagnustheJust]

Damn it, I was hoping to avoid picking up another Merc 'jack anytime soon. But the Mangler seems like a much better fit for my pMagnus lists than my Mule, and the eruption of Gators players at my local meta has me scrambling for ways to reliably take out close-packed 8-wound infantry.

Aren't there laws against playing Mags1 and NOT getting a Mangler???

[pattison]

It's not the laws, it's good taste. :P

[LordRavurion]

as far as I know the Law is that when taking pMagnus you are also taking 2 renegades. The mangler just finishes off the last couple points as he is not a magnus only jack anymore.

Still fun to use with pMags though because Iron Agression is excellent on the jack.

[sleet01]

Breakin' the law, breakin' the law!

[MagnustheJust]

Breakin' the law, breakin' the law!

[baronvonchaos]

Ha ha ha, this thread is awesome...

I always run pMags with a Mangler because IA on the Mangler just rocks my socks. . And yes. Like John of Arc said, you rarely deal with ARM over 19. The only times you would is against Arcane Shield... Apply Gorman or A&H. Crisis averted.