This just in

[x3tsniper]

More anti infantry brought to you by BoLS.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/...eral-nemo.html

Artificer General Nemo - Cygnar Epic Warcaster

Lightning Strike [1x] (None) RNG: Ctrl ROF: 1 AOE: - POW: 10
Damage Type: Electricity
Lightning Generator - When a model is hit with this weapon, lightning arcs from that model to d3 consecutive additional models.
The lightning arcs to the nearest model it has not already arced to within 4˝ of the last model it arced to, ignoring this model.
Each model the lightning arcs to suffers a POW 10 electrical damage roll.

I just hope he doesn't have a way to ignore LoS, since we already know he can reinholdt for 2 of these.

[tonyzahn]

Rng: Ctrl? So it's a chain lightning storm call?

Irusk's Airburst is going to go cry in a corner somewhere now...

[quindraco]

Rng: Ctrl? So it's a chain lightning storm call?

Irusk's Airburst is going to go cry in a corner somewhere now...

It probably needs to hit like a normal ranged weapon, which means you can shut it down by blocking LOS, bringing stealth to the party, etc.

[Col_Festus]

My guess is it will probably ignore LOS since the range is CNTL, unless he has some mechanic that lets him boost his CNTL range.

Not going to lie... I really hope they give us something if they continue on their plan to eradicate infantry...

[x3tsniper]

I am hoping it needs LoS and doesn't ignore stealth. The issue with blocking LoS is what are you going to block LoS to our infantry that he can't just shoot and arc into our infantry? Clearly the solution is that the AK UA grants them immunity to electricity. lol

There is very little in the game that I hate more than chain lightning that can be boosted... At least ashes to ashes has the chance to only hit 2 models, which it does for me with eHexeris plenty.

EDIT: Don't forget he can target his own models in the back that are immune to arc it onto 4 of our guys.

[Kurb]

And the hits keep on coming

[drachenfels]

EDIT: Don't forget he can target his own models in the back that are immune to arc it onto 4 of our guys.

may wana read closer...

d3 additional models
meaning it has a chance (equal amount) of only hitting a single additional model. and if they shoot their own stormsmith in the back (likeliest target) that means they are only frying a single model of yours.

[OMM_Lukav]

Other than the range of this thing, i don't see the worry. Our multi wound infantry will be annoyed and it is still d3 with a ROF 1. You might lose 2 troops a turn if it hits and if it get past the ARM. I guarantee Cygnar is already throwing the hate about how weak this is.

[Col_Festus]

Khador's competitive edge comes from masses of high def infantry that have very low arm. That's what it's such a big deal to a lot of the competitive Khador players around here. In the past 2 books Cygnar alone has gotten multiple things that just murder the faces off of our high def infantry. Off the top of my head..

Storm Strider
Minute Man
and now this thing...

Like I said unless they plan on giving us some decent high arm infantry, or some SERIOUS jack support.. things are going to start getting very annoying very fast.

[OMM_Lukav]

Well maybe everyone will start getting more use out of their Man o Wars.

[sleet01]

You forgot the Storm Tower, Firefly, and Avenger. But strangely enough, the first two are generally poorly regarded and the Storm Strider is only just starting to become popular. And I can personally attest to the general inadvisability of turning to lightning as the solution to WGI. It turns out that all the lightning in the world doesn't make a difference versus WGI when they just tough it out.

[Col_Festus]

Unless they are buffed, or receive a UA that actually makes them worth while sp4, def 11 will always be epic fail.

[PG_dbsmash]

Like I said unless they plan on giving us some decent high arm infantry

Have you met Khador?

[OMM_Lukav]

Have you met Khador?

Agreed - on average, they are doing 1 point of damage to a 8 hit box model. I fail to see how that is fail.

[PG_dbsmash]

Agreed - on average, they are doing 1 point of damage to a 8 hit box model. I fail to see how that is fail.

An 8 hit box model that can now be healed, as well.

[Col_Festus]

The argument is not that this is good against MOW, it's not. It's the fact that forcing us to use high arm units that pales in comparison to the effectiveness (and cornerstone) of high def infantry.

[DemonCalibre]

An 8 hit box model that can now be healed, as well.

Then you remember that in SR2012, you actually have to get to zones and our multiwound models can barely arrive without your opponent making it harder through some feat/spell/etc.

The problem with our mutliwound guys is that they are too slow, pretty much not anything else.

[x3tsniper]

Okay so d3, isn't as terrible as I was reading it, but combined with all the other AoE/Chain coming out it is pretty awful. These kind of things when coming from a caster aren't to terribly far off from killing IFP, and do it relatively easily if they are boosting.

My issue with MoW, is what happens when it bounces of the MoW you just repaired, and into the mechanics behind them? Now you have issues. He can do this long before the MoW have a chance to engage. I honestly think this push to jacks will see some MoW on the board purely because we can't support the jacks, and I hope they give us a solo/UA to support this move, but the way they are now, I feel like I am going to be playing two or three casters period in khador.

[Ganso]

First I gotta see what they give other factions and what they give us in Colossals before making a final judgement, but I am seeing a move towards massive infantry removal in my meta, which is why I hope we get the support our multi wound infantry needs

[OMM_Lukav]

All i will say is if you think Man o Wars are just too slow to be competitive, ask PG Clutch at this years WMW to play a game with is pButcher Demo Corp list. It will make you a believer.

[PG_ChainGun]

Well maybe everyone will start getting more use out of their Man o Wars.

Denying us the one thing our faction excels at isn't going to make the MoW suck less (trust me, I have 26 of them fully painted).

[Kuarnix]

I'm not very concerned. They have lots of ways to do this kind of thing already. I'm also not expecting Nemo's defensive stats to get much of a bump, either. If he wants to get close and spend focus, I don't mind....

(I know it'll likely be a 16" range with the squire, but that's still close for an old man)


Actually, on second thought, this makes Doom Reavers sad.

[OMM_Lukav]

I get what you all are saying, but I think that is the way the game is evolving and Khador has the means to stay caught up. If you are playing against a stealth heavy list, you don't bring your shootiest list. In the same vein, if you are playing a anti-light infantry list...you don't bring the means to feed that kind of list. Especially in the case of Cygnar, the tools that blow our light infantry apart are not going to hurt our high ARM as well.

[x3tsniper]

The big issue here is that anti-infantry is becoming so prevalent that it is in almost all lists now or seems like it will be soon. I honestly could care less about this specific caster, but when we start reaching the point where any faction can bring 2 separate casters that rape infantry, along with a colossal or battle engine that will rape infantry it becomes a problem in my mind, at least until we have a little more support for our other options. Which, I don't think is unreasonable, since it will make expensive units and models more expensive.

[sleet01]

(I know it'll likely be a 16" range with the squire, but that's still close for an old man)

Actually, on second thought, this makes Doom Reavers sad.

Your Doom Reavers can take some small comfort in the fact that Nemo3 can't use the Squire (as I was recently reminded) because Finch is already attached to him.

[Kuarnix]

The big issue here is that anti-infantry is becoming so prevalent that it is in almost all lists now or seems like it will be soon. I honestly could care less about this specific caster, but when we start reaching the point where any faction can bring 2 separate casters that rape infantry, along with a colossal or battle engine that will rape infantry it becomes a problem in my mind, at least until we have a little more support for our other options. Which, I don't think is unreasonable, since it will make expensive units and models more expensive.

So this was an issue in one of the metas that I played in back in MKI. Lots of accurate pow 10's (especially shooting), and not much in the way of warjacks at all, maybe a few high-powered hitters per army but not much. So, I trolled the meta with a 500 point list that wasn't particularly good - just Karchev (who couldn't camp focus), Juggernauts (3!), and Uhlans. It wasn't amazing (though it was fun) but it rendered a lot of my opponent's models useless, which was a large advantage.

EDIT - sleet01 - oh shnap! That's excellent news. That's far too close for an old man to get to a Khador army

[PG_LunarSol]

Most of my hopes for Khador are in Conquest. This is probably a terrible plan, but I'm hopeful none the less.

Also, Finch doesn't HAVE to be an attachment. She could just be a companion.

[x3tsniper]

The issue is that it's not a lot of accurate pow 10s. It is single models that can drop swathes of infantry at a time being put in most lists. Their colossal can do the same thing at shorter range, and it probably won't be a slouch in melee. Makes me glad that our own colossal cannot be disrupted.

I honestly hope I am just doom and gloom here for no reason, and that we get some nice MoW support or jack support.

Most of my hopes for Khador are in Conquest. This is probably a terrible plan, but I'm hopeful none the less.

Also, Finch doesn't HAVE to be an attachment. She could just be a companion.

This

[correlation2]

This is why I've been telling you guys not to rely solely on Iron Flesh.


Our Shield Wall units should handle this fairly easily.

[x3tsniper]

This is why I've been telling you guys not to rely solely on Iron Flesh.


Our Shield Wall units should handle this fairly easily.

The correct term is MoW survive this easily. What you said I disagree with. Boostable pow 10s knock shield walls out relatively easily, and from such long range, I just don't have a lot of faith in IFP surviving that either.

[Jake the Dog]

Well you guys have infaction Heavy/Multi-Wound Foot Infantry. If you don't use it, that's a choice. I wish Cygnar had a choice ... (and no, Mercs with Murdoch don't count, you can do the same with your Officer).

[correlation2]

Well I assume since it's uniquely a rng cntrl gun he's just going to be tossing shots out to troll for kills. Probably going to be using the rest of his focus on the usual hefty spell list and jack movement shenanigans. Sure he could use the focus to boost damage rolls if he felt he had to, but I just don't see it being a worthy investment -most- of the time.


Btw I think the electric immune AKs idea is... hilarious.

"Sir! We've just discovered -and of course insulated ourselves against- a new element!"
"By the Empress' knickers!"
"Yes sir! I call it, 'cracklystuff'"
"Genius!"

[sleet01]

I think Storm Lances are it for us, compadre.

[Col_Festus]

The problem we have is two fold. Some of our infantry is simply amazing, so they won't buff MOW until other armies reliably can deal with the high def stuff. The same goes for our jacks, we have some amazing character jacks, but the rest of our jacks are pretty sub par, so they can't really give us more jack support until they do something about our amazing jacks.

around and around we go!

Since we are on the topic, who does play the best high arm/tough as nails armies? Im thinking probably trolls or Skorne?

[x3tsniper]

Well you guys have infaction Heavy/Multi-Wound Foot Infantry. If you don't use it, that's a choice. I wish Cygnar had a choice ... (and no, Mercs with Murdoch don't count, you can do the same with your Officer).

I you are trying to make me feel bad about an 11 man unit that can permanently have armor 19, spd 6 and def 12 with super tough, you won't find tears here. Including jr. this costs 1 point more than a full unit of ST. If I had arcane shield to throw on them, you might see them tar pitting for me on occasion. I will grant you they aren't all 8 wound models, but they are also not speed 4.

Since we are on the topic, who does play the best high arm/tough as nails armies? Im thinking probably trolls or Skorne?

Depends on offense or defense. I think the Skorne take it defensively when you stack defenders ward on, but trolls have it offensively. It really depends on what buffs you have available.

[Jake the Dog]

I think Storm Lances are it for us, compadre.

That's Cavalry, I said Heavy Foot Infantry. It sucks that out Cavalry has 5 Boxes unlike most to boot.

[Kuarnix]

The issue is that it's not a lot of accurate pow 10s. It is single models that can drop swathes of infantry at a time being put in most lists. Their colossal can do the same thing at shorter range, and it probably won't be a slouch in melee. Makes me glad that our own colossal cannot be disrupted.

Eh, there's lots of things that can do it already. Cygnar has had Sentinels for a long time, and I think....two (?) of their casters from Prime have deadeye. Menoth has ashes to ashes and Feora, and so on. In terms of the colossals and battle engines, they're pretty expensive models so it's not trivial to include in a smaller game where that's going to make an impact.

The good news is that you can't boost the damage on electro-leap, which means the shield wall units should take it pretty well (at 9's to kill I never bother aiming Chain Lightning at ARM 18 units, it's just too focus/fury intensive to boost the damage rolls, and really don't like casting it at units over ARM 15).

[Jake the Dog]

I you are trying to make me feel bad about an 11 man unit that can permanently have armor 19, spd 6 and def 12 with super tough, you won't find tears here. Including jr. this costs 1 point more than a full unit of ST. If I had arcane shield to throw on them, you might see them tar pitting for me on occasion.

That wasn't my point, friend.
While Khador has high def infantry, it also has a high Armor infantry unit that is in-faction and can be healed. That takes care of Pow 10 spam. Cygnar has no In-Faction Heavy Foot Infantry (without Murdoch, but you can do the same). Our only in-faction tool against Pow 10 spam is AS from the JMW, and that just works ok on most stuff (most of our infantry has just average stats in most stats). To use your own words, you won't find any tears here when you have tools to fight what worries you.

[Digilante]

The good news is that you can't boost the damage on electro-leap

This may have been true in the past, but the leaked info doesn't say that the leaps are unboostable. It's just a rumor though so who knows.

Even if it is boostable I don't think this guy (who is presumably going to be a jack caster like his previous incarnation) will want to be saving 1-3 focus to boost some random POW 10s. The way I see this being used is that he drops it on one of our jacks each turn to take out D3 of the surrounding winterguard/kayazy. Even without this though Cygnar has never had trouble dealing with our high DEF infantry through Deadeye, thunderhead, minutemen, electroleap, chain lightning, etc. I don't think this changes much, it is just a neat ability.

[x3tsniper]

Pow 10s will kill of what heals the MoW so very easily.. This is a b2b repair we are talking about. Also just to note, I am not directing this at cygnar as a faction but the game as a whole. Point me to a faction that didn't get AoE spam or chain effects in their last release. I am aware perfectly that we have heavy infantry with multiwounds. I am also aware they are speed 4. The STs may be more survivable than most factions medium base infantry, but they can still be taken apart moving at spd 4 across the board.

So yes they will survive pow 10s, and then do a lot of nothing for the rest of the game.