So, what do we want out of Mammoth?

[gaminguy]

I've seen these floating around some other forums, we might as well jump on the band wagon at some point. I do think the Gargantuans are in a tough spot design wise, although not as bad a spot as the BEs were. At the point cost of two heavies the Mammoth has to compete with some very good options, without invalidating some not-so-hot ones. Glad + BB, Glad + Tibbers, or Glad + Karn are all likely to be in the same point range and it can't blow any of them out of the water, and at the same time it can't be so good at shooting that Cannoneer x2 or Cannoneer + Animantarax become non-options. (OK, maybe I'm reaching a bit on that last one.)

I think talking specific stats is a bit premature, there's so much about the Gargantuans that we don't know yet (are the actually beasts or do they just share most of the rules? Can we Rush one? Will Immovable be built in?) but I think we can make some general predictions based on what we do know:

- Reach is a given, so is Pathfinder, SPD 4 is real likely, and that puts it at the same minimum threat range as a Rushed BB. If the Mammoth hits harder than the BB by very much it suplants the Glad + BB combo, so I doubt it's damage output will beat the BB by more than 30% in melee.

- I will be very disappointed if it has no ranged game, but this is a very tight rope to walk since the Cannoneer x2 combo isn't spectacular. I'm actually kind of hoping for a Thunderhead-ish front-arc pulse and/or a decent SP 10, and a more dedicated RoF 2 direct fire heavy to compliment the Cannoneer in the book.

- I don't particularly want to look at it and think "wow that needs a Gladiator AND a Raider to operate, there's 30-35 points any time I want to field one".

Basically, I'm hoping for roughly a melee heavy bolted to a ranged heavy, plus another more specialized ranged heavy so it's not out best option if we want to play shooty.

[Martez]

mmm well, not knowing its shape gives all sorts of idea`s to the imagination ^^

i personally think something like a Acruii would be kinda cool, a melee beast with a potent ranged option, so perhaps something bi-pedal with a harpoon gun / cannon on its back / carrying and a grab and smash rule on it instead of drag so it pulls you in and then head butts etc etc

[Soylent]

I'm hoping for it to be a solid ranged beast with a massive spiral(s) for transfers.

[PG_dungeongod]

I suspect that the Gargantuans will be similar in many respects (at least in what they are designed to do in game) as the Colossals. Immovable Object, same set of power attacks, will be a beast, etc. (They stated that the Colossals were WarJacks in the last NQ)

As for what I want - something that is different, even slightly different, would be nice. I am OK with it feeling correct in the faction, but I would love to see something simple, like spiny growth as an animus, or a thresher reach special attack, or even an always-thresher attack a'la Butcher2 would be sweet too.

[hamsandwich50]

I was having a similar conversation with a friend and it came up that the gargantuans are all probably looking at least fury 5 so to compete with the versatility that that can offer the colossals are given a bunch of initials since they use the focus mechanic. With that in mind I suspect that the gargantuans will have fewer initials than the colossals appear to have and from seeing the mountain king I would guess that at most the gargantuans are going to have 2 or 3 melee weapons and a ranged option or two that they can use as well.

As for our Mammoth, from the artwork shown in IK I would guess two tusk attacks and then maybe a couple ranged options from stuff on the back, so hopefully the range option will have a multiple rate of fire or something to multiply the threat it can offer at range.

[PG_dungeongod]

As for our Mammoth, from the artwork shown in IK I would guess two tusk attacks and then maybe a couple ranged options from stuff on the back, so hopefully the range option will have a multiple rate of fire or something to multiply the threat it can offer at range.

It has been mentioned that (I paraphrase) Pendrake was mistaken when he catalogued that creature as a mammoth - i.e. that it was a translation error. So, I don't know that we have any idea WHAT it looks like...

[Soylent]

I'm guessing it will be a giant titan(fingers crossed).

[Sygerrik]

I'm guessing it will be a giant titan(fingers crossed).

I also hope this. Sooner or later though we're going to run out of synonyms for "big..."
Titan
Mammoth
Behemoth
Colossal
Gargantuan

[PG_lord tyrant watt]

I hope its unique, I really dont want something that is similar that I can currently get in a two beast combo . However, I bet they arent as good as the Colossals. The fury mechanic would be obscene on one of these guys. I bet there is a draw back to forcing them.

I would like to see some built in buffs or denial tricks to the Mammoth. Not some lumbering beast with some P+S 18 fists, and POW14 reiver guns.

[Junn Khan]

Something with a knockdown aura maybe? It's pretty hard to say as Skorne really has the massive killing machine that can take a lot of damage down already.

[PG_DaveZee]

A Huge Titan Ancestral Guardian....

[Scottl1]

Um the mammoth is in the 2nd beastiary for the rpg along with the woldwrath. Didn't know if anyone noticed or not.

[PG_DaveZee]

Um the mammoth is in the 2nd beastiary for the rpg along with the woldwrath. Didn't know if anyone noticed or not.

My understanding was that Doug Seacat said that was not the same mammoth as the upcoming Gargantuan. I might be mistaken.

[jettzypher]

i said this before in another thread: i would like to see something that resembles the magnataur from WoW. fits perfectly with how i would imagine it.

[planescapedm]

do we know if the gargantuans are going to have animi?

[PG_Paingiver]

Here's hoping mammoth actually translates to giant!

[PG_strangedane]

I just want a nice model with rules that would make me consider it for at least some games!! Looking at you Animantarax...

[gaminguy]

What, you don't like the Viking-short-boat-Makeda-turtle?

[Indragnir]

So far Colossi and Gargantuan (only one) seems (we don't know a lot of rules) an embodyment of the faction iconic themes:
-Conquest: heavy, slow, devastating power-
-Storm Wall: lots of firepower, electric-centric, high tech.
-Adjudicator: Fire, Rockets, cathedral-esque.
-Kraken: meat fueled, alien design, atypical configuration.
-Mountain Kings: big troll, whelps, chained, seems very furious.

So I really expect a skorne iconic gargantuan: a big Titan. Now, what are the most iconic skorne themes?

[Refyougee]

I want a really hairy Titan. Maybe some new process in the way agonizers are made, that somehow makes them really huge. Its agony could be some kind of temporal barrier aura, with a range equal to how much fury is on it.

[Rynth]

The absolute last thing I want is an extra large Titan, Cyclops or other beast that the Skorne cannot fully tame/break. We've gotten too many of those recently.

[Indragnir]

Although I like titans I rather prefer a giant Ancestral-esque Guardian. Some kind of soul powered construct. But I still think we'll get a giant titan.

[Discoduck]

If it's just a boring old giant Titan, I quit. Skorne, of all the factions, deserves something exotic and unique - it makes the most sense. Giant dragonspawn? Sure. Giant Trollkin? Sure. Giant Wold Warden? Sure. Giant Titan? A bit of a stretch, even for a fantasy setting. Also, boooooriiing.

Mechanics-wise, please-to-be a heavy ranged beast with good melee potential and lots of damage boxes. It would make me consider it over Karn and Gladiator for the casters that don't focus on rushing into the thick of it as fast as possible.

[hamsandwich50]

I think if your looking for a very strong skorne theme my vote would be slavery or torture like most of our stuff. So maybe the mammoth will have little skorne dudes walking around it prodding it or something. I'm hoping that we get something hairy since i think that in itself would make it look a lot different from our other stuff.

[jettzypher]

lots of damage boxes

i doubt this will be an issue. the colossi for warmachine have two full (or nearly full) sets of grids. i would imagine gargantuans will have two spirals to match. there will definitely be no shortage of life.

[ajay29]

Now, what are the most iconic skorne themes?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Pain and suffering. Friendly souls tech. Punching face. Odd speed.

I think all bar the friendly souls tech will be included.
Probably get something similar to Cantankerous, maybe Hyper Aggressive too, or the extra speed when damaged (Cinerators) or the free charges when damaged (Gorax/Brine).
Punching face is obvious, and I'm really hoping it's not a mobile ranged platform. Don't get me wrong, bang a huge reiver on it by all means, but dont stick 3 reivers on it and try to pass it off as being able to compete with the ranged (presumed) abilities of the Conquest/Stormwall.

[*SQUEE*]

I just want it to look cool and be playable without feeling that I am handicapping myself.

[various]

It looks as if the Colossals weigh in at 19pts, so it'd be good if the Gargantuans are worth the large outlay (in terms of points and dollars). The response to the battle engines has been very mixed: in both Factions that i play (Cryx and Skorne) i don't think that i've heard one good thing about either of their battle engines. i don't know how they were recieved in the other Factions. It must be a very tough balancing act to create something that's good but not OP, something worth taking but not an auto-include must have game winner. i really hope that we don't end up with a literal Mammoth (with tusks, a trunk, and fur) or something that's just a larger version of the Animantarax. The Colossals all appear to be very closely tied to their Factions thematic background so i'm hoping that it'll be the same for the Gargantuans. i just want something that looks good, plays well, and will be worth the time/money/construction effort that goes into it.

[x3tsniper]

Cygnar's battle engine was probably the best received followed by Circle. Trolls seems decent, but I am not sure how it was received. The battle wagon is 50/50ish I am against it pretty hard. My friend in Menoth thinks his is pretty cool, but he doesn't own it yet, as he has been playing very little lately as he has been busy about to be hitched next month. Oo


If I remember correctly, the Colossals/Gargantuans are between 18/9-21 points. I may be off there, but I could swear I read something akin to that somewhere. I know both the previewed ones were 19.

I just wish it weren't named Mammoth. I wouldn't have minded some kind of bad *** Rhino thing, but I can't see that being called Mammoth. It just isn't a cool name at all. Mountain King vs Mammoth. >.> All I see is an animal that men with sticks kill in really old movies... I wouldn't mind some kind of giant scaled lizard though, which is somewhat what the monsternomicon seemed to show, but once again we were told that isn't it.


So here is me hoping its not a giant hairy elephant(sorry everyone who wants that), but I also don't want a giant titan. I want something we don't have already.

I really hope people aren't riding it also. We saw how that went down with the animantarax.

Meh, this could just be me being more negative until we get war room. Who knows. Oo

[gaminguy]

I have this sudden image of a wooley mammoth in Titan form. I can almost see that being cool looking. (Not Cygnar-cool, but then not much in the range really is.)

[PG_Paingiver]

I think we need to drop the preconceived ideas of what a Mammoth is and use the Adjective instead. Mammoth - immensely large; huge; enormous.

By this definition it could be anything!

[Earthcrosser599]

I don't want some new random beast; A giant progenitor titan sounds perfect to me as the centerpiece of my Skorne army. A cyclops would also be cool, but Mammoth sounds like a poor name for one.

As for what it does, I want it to kill things even when I roll crappy. A flash back to mk1 days would be great; I don't remember what it was called, but that spell that Hexeris had where everyone within a certain distance of a beast got blasted, and then the feedback from each death did d3 damage to the beast. That's be cool.

[elpolloloco]

I would like to see a construct with one or possibly two Commodore Cannon type guns with weapon platform.

We already know Skorne can make siege type cannons its not a stretch to think they could make their own or copy the Commodore and mount it on a stable platform.

[muffinman331]

I really don't even care if it ends up being a giant titan. I think that could be cool if done right. I would prefer something new and cool, but I would take Titan over SA-looking lizard with a howdah. The looks aren't as important to me. a huge model that looks HALF as decent as the mountain king will be fine with me (I couldn't stop looking at that thing at Adepticon.... if ours sucks I may be switching to trolls.)

The big thing for me will be the rules. Give us something we will actually be excited to use. not just high pow melee, please. the biggest thing I hated about the SA was how boring it was. there was literally nothing new to it. it has a reiver cannon and a tail mace. we have those already, for cheaper.

the Mammoth needs something new and interesting. it will obviously have a big melee attack. that's cool, but don't use all the points to just make a really high pow attack. Xerxis + Bronzeback is all the pow we need to kill any model in the game. give the melee attack some special rules. like knockdown on everything within 2" of the target. or put Smite on every tusk attack. even if it isn't something that powerful, it needs special rules. even something basic like Snacking. or give it overtake, or berserk, or make it stronger when damaged.

It would be awesome if it had some ranged weaponry as well. we have melee beasts. we need something good on the ranged side. some options: a catapult of some kind, arcing fire, causes rough terrain; a ROF 2 or 3 gun with no aoe, but high POW (in the 15+ range); or my personal favorite, a ballista with either a slam effect or armor piercing. I would love some AP other than rhadiem in faction. and putting it on a ranged gun makes it less boostable with our faction buffs. no worrying about how it stacks with Enrage, Fury, or Xerxis feat. but still awesome.

And finally, I would love for it to have some sort of buffing/boosting/benefit to other models. Like we had hoped for when we saw the guy with the horn on the SA. let if gain tokens when friendly models die (maybe not souls, maybe some kind of token that gives it +1 str or spd for a round when stuff near it dies. like Naaresh, but when friends take damage). Maybe let it hand out pathfinder to models nearby (via animus or aura).

So with all that said, here would be my ideal MAmmoth (I realize this is probably oevr the top. I don't care, I can dream!)

two intial melee attacks, Reach, P+S ~ 16. gains d3 health every time it kills a living model with a melee attack
one initial ranged attack, ROF 1, range 12. Armor piercing, crit knockdown
gains a token every time a living, FF model dies within 6", can have up to 5. each token gives +1 Arm and Str. tokens reset every turn

[x3tsniper]

It sounds like you are asking for a better battle engine. Oo

[Sanctjud]

It sounds like you are asking for a better battle engine. Oo

It goddamn better be better than that *****...

[jettzypher]

We already know Skorne can make siege type cannons its not a stretch to think they could make their own or copy the Commodore and mount it on a stable platform.

of course they can but they dont view ranged as an honorable style and its shunned. im pretty sure the ONLY reason we have ranged units is simply for the sake of having them


and i do hope its leaps and bounds better than the siege engine.

[doom_reaver]

I want it to be the product of Molik and Tiberion following too much wine and a Marvin Gaye album. Its the only way to assure it'll be full of win I hope it gets its fathers swords and its mothers hide :-P

[Tyrant-Maybe]

Shai'halud.

Giant giant sand worm with a swallow whole attack or something fun.

He who controls the spice controls Caen!

[Triumph Of Man]

If it's a beatstick it's going to be a pretty big disappointment. Bronzebacks/Tiberion are already in the realm of overkill.