Want PP to fix Cygnar? I have a suggestion.

[n647]

Ok, I've been contemplating playing Cygnar for a while now, but the sheer hilariousness of this thread has convinced me to actually start getting the models.

I mean, seriously, this thread turned a bad day into a good one.

please don t misunderstand. we all really like cygnar as a faction. and the stuborness to stay plying it even tough we know of its shortcomings

[Katkiller 5]

please don t misunderstand. we all really like cygnar as a faction. and the stuborness to stay plying it even tough we know of its shortcomings

Oh I know, it was more the idea that Privateer is purposefully crippling a faction that I found to be extremely amusing.

[Dan from Chicago]

Doooom

Doooom

DOOOOOOOM

[leo_neil316]

What is this 'not buy cygnar'? I don't understand?

[Tevelyn]

What is this 'not buy cygnar'? I don't understand?

I don't either, I've got cash already set aside for Stormwall and Nemo3

tev

[Sardonic Artery]

Looks like my current signature still applies.

No one is saying Cygnar doesn't have flaws. Even my "You Know What? I Actually Like Cygnar" acknowledges flaws in the faction. I'm not going to say something unsupported like "Cygnar is the best faction!" either because the tournament stats don't reflect that. Truth is, Cygnar rarely ranks high in tournies (although we do quite well in leagues), but if the top players -- who seem to win with whatever they take -- win a major with Cygnar, then much of the forum whinge will dissolve. Apparently that's what happened at the Circle forum.

Tev's comment on Terminus being a hard counter to Cygnar is spot on as far as I'm concerned (save a disruptor bolt + perfect assassination run), and Ret is tough for me as a whole. Thing is though, Lord_of_Rangers, I own Trolls, too, and I'm much, much better with Cygnar. That doesn't mean some conspiracy against Trolls (and FYI, Trolls often do terrible in tournaments compared to the other factions); it's just how I play in my meta.

Cygnar is a generalist faction. Either you like that or you don't. We need Mercs (so says most of us) and owning a large chunk of the faction winds up feeling necessary to compete (at 4-caster tournaments). I'm certainly POW 10d out, but shooting, as a whole, needs to be kept in check (hence why I have such a hard time with Ret). I think one of the hardest things about learning Cygnar is that most of our tactics involve picking the opponent's plan apart (which requires a lot of faction knowledge, riding out heavy army losses, and a bit of luck in list building) or that we don't learn because most of our early wins come from assassination turn two or three -- before much has happened. I had no idea how to face Cryx for a while because I faced enough players who assumed a stealth caster was a safe caster.

But the suggestion of not buying models as some sort of fix doesn't work because the forum, as ubiquitously right as it likes to pretend it is, is only a microcosm of the Warmachine community, so it wouldn't be enough, even if everyone here did agree to hop on that idea.

There's a really good Menoth player at my LGS. Dude hasn't used his account here in years and he's probably doing things way different than what's been "approved," but, tournaments, casual, whatever, he wins. A lot. Same goes for a Cygnar player who used to come around (who was so competitive that it apparently drove him to quit) -- dude was way better than most everyone forum-free.

[n647]

Oh I know, it was more the idea that Privateer is purposefully crippling a faction that I found to be extremely amusing.

oh that XD, that certainly not the case, but sometimes the difference is power is so brutal that people start to think things like that...

[PG_jackolas]

Cygnar are just as competitive as any other faction.. Sure we have weak infantry units, but we have massive access to mercs which can do the job just fine if you want infantry!

[Alex C]

Only one explaination seems valid; they did it on purpose.

[Sardonic Artery]

All hail Alex C.

[Katkiller 5]

All hail Alex C.

+ One to the above

[Matthaeus]

Stop buying Cygnar models, everyone, immediately.

A flaw has been detected in this plan.
Flaw identified : "imminent Stormwall release".

[Sardonic Artery]

A flaw has been detected in this plan.
Flaw identified : "imminent Stormwall release".

My budget has taken care of that one.

[Stephan Garmark]

I think PP made them intentionally bad as well. Just look at the squire and compare it to Herald or War Dog, it's completely underpowered. Or look at gun mages and compare them to Widow Makers, incredibly underpowered.
Or B13 and compare with Blackfrost Shard or Great Bears, or the immensily OP'ed Visgoth Roven.

This thread is bollocks.

On a more curious note. How many of the long gunners haters in these forums have actually played Long Gunners with pCaine? I just can't for the love of it understand how you can call that a bad unit... just saying.

[sleet01]

A bad unit plus great support is still a bad unit... just with great support.

[Varius]

On a more curious note. How many of the long gunners haters in these forums have actually played Long Gunners with pCaine? I just can't for the love of it understand how you can call that a bad unit... just saying.

Why use them when you can use nyss?

[jonconcarne]

Why use them when you can use nyss?

POW 21 instead of POW 20, plus doubletapping. That's why

[Trollicious]

dont forget rng 14

[Tevelyn]

I like cygnar, they've a very cool faction.

You cannot call a faction competetive when there are hard counters to the entire faction. If you want to make this argument go play against a good terminus or morvahnna list. Tell me that you can win an event knowing that Circle and Cryx are two of the top lists, and terminus may very well be the most commonly fielded caster in the game.

I'm hoping Nemo3 and Stormwall solve this problem. Stormwall at least should solve terminus, hopefully it will be good enough that it becoming a mandatory model won't be TOO bad.

Tev

[jonconcarne]

I like cygnar, they've a very cool faction.

You cannot call a faction competetive when there are hard counters to the entire faction. If you want to make this argument go play against a good terminus or morvahnna list. Tell me that you can win an event knowing that Circle and Cryx are two of the top lists, and terminus may very well be the most commonly fielded caster in the game.

I'm hoping Nemo3 and Stormwall solve this problem. Stormwall at least should solve terminus, hopefully it will be good enough that it becoming a mandatory model won't be TOO bad.

Tev

Considering that I can beat Terminus with Ashlynn, I'm pretty sure he's beatable with Cygnar. Is it easy? Heck no, but it's not that bad. You just have to build your lists with some melee punch. I've also actually heard a few people recommend eCaine for playing against Terminus. Pop your feat to kill his army, and teleport back. Then spend the rest of the game hitting him with Eiryss, whatever shooting you have, and rocket a jack into him.

I actually think that the Avenger will really help here too just by being AOE 4 for good crowd clearing. Plus Cyclones really help in beating any Cryx army.

[jonconcarne]

As for Morvanna, I'm not really sure about how to play against this with Cygnar, but if you wipe the whole Regrowthed unit out at once, there's no returning them to play. Not like Cygnar usually has a huge problem with stealth infantry.

[DontStop]

I like cygnar, they've a very cool faction.

You cannot call a faction competetive when there are hard counters to the entire faction. If you want to make this argument go play against a good terminus or morvahnna list. Tell me that you can win an event knowing that Circle and Cryx are two of the top lists, and terminus may very well be the most commonly fielded caster in the game.

I'm hoping Nemo3 and Stormwall solve this problem. Stormwall at least should solve terminus, hopefully it will be good enough that it becoming a mandatory model won't be TOO bad.

Tev

Terrible example. Terminus is cake.

[PG_Draxos]

Harkevich and Black Ivan, freaking fantastic models

As a Khador player I am rather amused by this statement and completely willing to argue against you.

Found it! Do I get a cookie?

*Throws VagrantPoet a Cookie*

[Cannotcope]

As a Khador player I am rather amused by this statement and completely willing to argue against you.

You don't like the mechano-chicken leg?
And how can you argue against that beard?

[Trollicious]

This might be the subject for a whole new thread, but what is the big problem with terminus? Cygnar options are not limited to ranged assassination, after all.

[Lanz]

I keep checking back to see if the OP is actually defending his stance still, and keep getting disappointed.

[MollyHatchet]

I really dont have much of an issue with Termnous... but then he is also a big reason Stryker2 makes it as one of my two lists alot of times. I "think" I have a record of 4-2 against him, but its been a while since I have seen him hit the table.

The local Meta maybe sees at most 2 Cryx players, and neither of them field Big Flappy.

[gelfy]

Way to many crack addicts trying to play Cygnar.

[MollyHatchet]

Yea... I just cant do it anymore. I am going to have to agree with Sleet on this one Gelfy, and put you on ignore.

95% of your posts dont do anything to further the thread any, can be rather inflamatory, and just not worth reading.

[gelfy]

Yea... I just cant do it anymore. I am going to have to agree with Sleet on this one Gelfy, and put you on ignore.

95% of your posts dont do anything to further the thread any, can be rather inflamatory, and just not worth reading.

You break my heart. Trolling in a troll thread is just to much to bear. Bon voyage Dont let THE XOXO train boot you on the Bottom on the way out.

[Katkiller 5]

Quick question, how the [insert curse here] could Cyngar possibly have issues against Morvahna or Terminus? I'm hoping that this is just trolling and not actual opinion.

[MollyHatchet]

Both have Sac Pawn, which in a shooty Cygnar army (Not saying that everyone does it) can be a bit of a pain to assassinate with. Since some of our casters the Assissination vector IS the gun, it can be hard to deal with.

But in a two list format, having two gun lines is a bit silly.

[Katkiller 5]

Both have Sac Pawn, which in a shooty Cygnar army (Not saying that everyone does it) can be a bit of a pain to assassinate with. Since some of our casters the Assissination vector IS the gun, it can be hard to deal with.

But in a two list format, having two gun lines is a bit silly.

Yeah, I can see "bit of a pain", as you have to clear out the infantry around them first, but that's a hell of a long way off from "it's impossible to beat them with cygnar".

[Sardonic Artery]

Quick question, how the [insert curse here] could Cyngar possibly have issues against Morvahna or Terminus? I'm hoping that this is just trolling and not actual opinion.

I guess we should say, save eStryker. That's usually my go-to for wingman.

[Katkiller 5]

I guess we should say, save eStryker. That's usually my go-to for wingman.

Against Terminus you also have eHaley, eCaine, pHaley.

Morvhana is a little more annoying because of druids, but that's what ATGM are for.

[Trollicious]

You need to be careful with divide and conquer though. You may get locked into a gunline list against terminus. Which brings me to a basic point. You should never build a list that relies on a single method of assassination.

That said, full commitment to a cygnar gunline can often bring enough firepower to shoot away everything around terminus and shill have shots left to put into the big guy, barring some obscenely lucky tough rolls. Just make sure that if you are fully commiting to the gunline, and avoiding our fantastic melee jacks, that you have ranged counters to stealth, cover, terrain, clouds, incorporeal, and extreme defense/armor.

[MollyHatchet]

My first list is "normally" Stryker2. Then I kind of bounce around a bit with stuff that doesnt take as much characters, like currently the Nemo2 Tier1 list with 5 heavies and 8 Stormcallers.

[DontStop]

Against Terminus you also have eHaley, eCaine, pHaley.

Morvhana is a little more annoying because of druids, but that's what ATGM are for.

So far Kraye has been my guy vs. Big T.

[Katkiller 5]

So far Kraye has been my guy vs. Big T.

Yeah, I can see him too now that I think about it. Mage sight lets you shoot up the thralls\withershadow, and getting pursuit on him is just comical.

Honestly, I'm having a hard time thinking of any caster that would really have issues with him. Maybe Sloan if you went full gunline, and the Termnus player went all-stealth, but a balanced force with her would have more than a fighting chance.

[gelfy]

Yeah, I can see him too now that I think about it. Mage sight lets you shoot up the thralls\withershadow, and getting pursuit on him is just comical.

Honestly, I'm having a hard time thinking of any caster that would really have issues with him. Maybe Sloan if you went full gunline, and the Termnus player went all-stealth, but a balanced force with her would have more than a fighting chance.

Then sloan aims. B13. theres plenty of ways for cygnar to deal with it. also reguarding shieldguard if the shooting model cant see the model with shieldguard it doesnt get Recieve it. if its that important to stop. make it so they cant see that model.

big T himself really doenst give cygnar that many headaches. we have that many answers available to us it isnt funny.

High armoured Trolls and khador give me nightmares. even a few legion casters when i havent got the match up down.

All in all we are the best jack of all trades Faction Semi master of NoNe.

XOXO
Gossip Gelf out.