Want PP to fix Cygnar? I have a suggestion.

[John of Arc]

Good lord you're angry. I'm not even going to try and put an opinion forward. If I think Cygnar is fine, then you'll dismiss me and imply that I'm stupid/deluded. If I agree with you, then I don't want to say that because I don't want to support your post. Not your stance on Cygnar specifically, just this post. First, you open the thread by claiming that all pro-cygnar players are delusional. That's a helluva claim to state, especially when you're not going to post any evidence supporting it (your trollblood experience can hardly be called evidence). Even if you were correct, believing Cygnar is strong wouldn't make you delusional- it would make you inexperienced, at worst. Basically, your opening paragraph is like walking into a church and ragging on people for how stupid they are for believing in religion. It's not going to do anything other than make you look like an ***. If you'd like people to listen to you and take you seriously in the future, I would suggest that you adopt a more civil tone in the future.

Secondly, your conspiracy theory seems silly to me. Despite testing and experience, game makers frequently have more powerful options and less powerful options. Most (armies/characters/decks/whatever) end up being middle of the ground- some strengths, some weaknesses, and about right where you want them to be. Then there are other options where the designers misjudge the power level a great deal. Warmachine is actually remarkably well balanced all things considered- if you say Cygnar is weak to the point that it's not competitive, but that all other factions are, then that's a much better track record than the balance of many fighting games at release. MVC3, Blazblue, even Street Fighter have all had major balance issues at one point or another, with at least half the roster never being used, or even worse, being dominated by the same on or two characters. Smash Bros. has a MAJOR problem with that, but since it wasn't designed to be a tournament fighter, I'll leave it out of the discussion. In other words, balance issues happen. IF your point of view is correct, which I'm not even convinced that it is, then Cygnar got the short end of the balance stick. It happens. PP did not do this on purpose, because there's absolutely nothing to gain on their end from it. I don't have any evidence to support that point except for common sense and the whole deal with Occam's Razor, but I don't really need any, since as the accuser the burden of proof is on your shoulders.

Lastly, your proposal is unrealistic. You're asking people to stop doing something that they find fun, which if they like the faction, they won't do (especially since you already insulted them, as discussed above). Even IF everyone on the forums boycotted Cygnar, that still wouldn't work, as only a small portion of the player base actually visits these forums.

To summarize:
1) You lead your post by insulting your audience before you even make your point
2) Your claim is faulty
3) Your proposal is unrealistic

And that is all I have to say. Good day sir.

[ricefrisbeetreats]

Posting here is only hitting maybe 40% of the people that play Warmachine. Probably less, but I'm being generous today. Even if everyone here decided we're not going to buy another model (though half of us would probably break that vow within a few days, like I always do when I find myself playing games less and less) there's still a pretty good chunk of people playing Cygnar. Furthermore, I've seen a few statistics floating around that Cygnar is one of the most popular factions, so even with a loss of buyers, it might just mean that Cygnar is now selling in line with, say, Menoth (I think that's one of the mid-range factions in terms of popularity).

Go ahead and stop buying models. Tell your friends to stop buying them as well. It's not going to make a huge difference. This is kinda like when people have those "let's all stop buying gas on this day to stick it to the man" things. It never works the way they plan.

[King-of-Storms]

Way to many crack addicts trying to play Cygnar.

That and Cygnar requires a brain which frankly from what I see they didn't read that "some assembly" required bit when putting together a legit strategy. Cygnar is not for the short.

Quick question, how the [insert curse here] could Cyngar possibly have issues against Morvahna or Terminus? I'm hoping that this is just trolling and not actual opinion.

About 90% of this is trolling. So let's consider the OP is a troll and hasn't replied to his own thread suggests he realized his failure here and this thread has done nothing more than enable the other "garbage" which is practically enabling the enablers. Maybe the Cygnar forums should be closed temporarily until something can be done to take the trash out.

I'll admit I'm not a pro because even after 2 years I'm still learning my way around the rules and getting some of the special rules misunderstood.

BUT! From the experience I do have, Cygnar maybe flawed or deemed underpowered because of underappreciated infantry (or expecting too much of them); Cygnar plays the most diverse and distinctive style than other faction, even though it's oddball to what Warmachine demands to play like you got a pair. In the end just like in the fluff, the Swans are hanging onto what they got by their fingernails. Cygnar demands a tenacious player and if that makes them the least competitive then it is Mind over matter. You only make Cygnar underpowered because you wanted it to be in this bubble of self-loathing and defeatism. You cynical Swans out there are your own worst enemy, you know who you are. Stop spewing this trash and play the game based on how you want, not by the status quo most of you put yourself in. Stop and smell the crap you're shoveling before going on a tanget.

I've won many games and I lost a fair share in return (42/37 win/loss ratio). Cygnar is what it is, just like any other faction. Each has a certian demand in strategy, each has a certian play style and each has its own strengths and weaknesses. So in the end you either take Cygnar for what it is or play another faction, that's all there is to it.

[leo_neil316]

Yeah, I can see "bit of a pain", as you have to clear out the infantry around them first, but that's a hell of a long way off from "it's impossible to beat them with cygnar".

Um, dude. The reason they're a pain is that the infantry terminus sac's shots onto revenant crew hiding behind him, the leader of which can be ten inches behind him, they also have tough. Then he takes a boatload more infantry to get in your face till he can feat, collect a load of soul tokens and then personally take down your caster.

Morvhanna has a similar trick, but it costs her fury, she doesn't give all those infantry tough and she's something like 15/13 and doesn't run beasts all that well. Other than flesh of stone she's not that much of an issue, especially with how reliant on upkeeps she is.

[Phantom]

Um, dude. The reason they're a pain is that the infantry terminus sac's shots onto revenant crew hiding behind him, the leader of which can be ten inches behind him, they also have tough. Then he takes a boatload more infantry to get in your face till he can feat, collect a load of soul tokens and then personally take down your caster.

Morvhanna has a similar trick, but it costs her fury, she doesn't give all those infantry tough and she's something like 15/13 and doesn't run beasts all that well. Other than flesh of stone she's not that much of an issue, especially with how reliant on upkeeps she is.

eHaley, Kraye, eCaine, eStryker...

We have more than enough casters that either directly counter that one trick pony or that flat out don't rely on ranged attacks to win the game.

Saying that a caster is a direct counter to our entire faction just because they have sac pawn just proves that some Cygnar players can't play worth a damn and them blame the faction for it!

[MollyHatchet]

It isnt just the Sac Pawn, its also the rediculously high armor he has/can get that makes bad matchups for people. His fear doesnt help. Which is also why you play two lists in alot of tourneys.

As I have said before, I havent had much of an issue with the guy, but some people tend to see him and scream foul.

One thing that really makes me wonder is why everyone keeps mentioning Caine2, who I think would want to avoid him like the plague that he is. Just doesnt seem to be a good matchup for him.

[Trollicious]

Also, don't shoot terminus until you have cleared out all sac pawn targets.

[PG_Killbox]

Read first post. Skip the rest.

Are you for realz?

[Katkiller 5]

It isnt just the Sac Pawn, its also the rediculously high armor he has/can get that makes bad matchups for people. His fear doesnt help. Which is also why you play two lists in alot of tourneys.

As I have said before, I havent had much of an issue with the guy, but some people tend to see him and scream foul.

One thing that really makes me wonder is why everyone keeps mentioning Caine2, who I think would want to avoid him like the plague that he is. Just doesnt seem to be a good matchup for him.

I would use him because between giving ATGM gunfihgter, and with True sight on himself, you can obliterate most of big T's infantry support from range, leaving the rest of your army effectively free to start pounding on Terminus. He's really only "impossible" to kill on his feat turn, and that requires him to kill a lot of your dudes in his control area, which is something that you can work around, to an extent.

As for people complaining about Morvahna... really, Morvahna? Just because she has Sac pawn? Ok, so you can't assasinate her easily from range, oh no. I'll just have to settle for obliterating her high-def low-arm army from range.

Any kind of list capable of neutralizing blood-trackers (her main regrowth target) instantly becomes a rough match-up for her.

About 90% of this is trolling.

I got that feeling, but eh, it's a forum, what can you do in the end besides pointing out the flaws in what they say and laughing at the hilarity of it all.

[A8mew]

Now granted I'm a pretty new player, so maybe I'm missing something obvious.

But how is Terminus scary when we can field enough electro leap to fry his army? IIRC, Revenants don't have very high armor. Even if that won't work for some reason, such as stormnouns being weaksauce, it would seem like you can just put some Cyclone templates wherever Terminus wants to put his sac pawn targets.

And even if all of that fails, unless your plan was "CRA him to death with long gunners", jack bullets should still be able to maul him. It just seems silly that Terminus' sac pawn targets would be an issue when we have so many POW 10's, our POW 10's shoot RNG 4 POW 10's.

[Lanz]

All in all we are the best jack of all trades Faction Semi master of NoNe.

How's that? Most factions boast being able to perform well in a wide range of areas. Where is Cygnar better at it than any other faction?

[PG_Dino-Czar]

How's that? Most factions boast being able to perform well in a wide range of areas. Where is Cygnar better at it than any other faction?

Don't worry about it. "Jack of all trades faction" is one of those indicator phrases that tells you the poster is blowing smoke. Its like "combined arms" and "easy to learn difficult to master".

[ShoX]

I just had a nice paycheck and I'm in the market for a hundred points of Cygnar or so, if you want to sell your stuff. That way I don't have to buy them from PP, you know, fighting the power and such...

[Mod_Redphantasm]

This thread has run it's predicatably short course.