So the crabjacks...

[BakerGaspy]

After the thread about the incoming plastic crabs and how terrible the they are or are not I wanted to ask for some views on how effective they are or can be in battle. So here is a thread about the crabjacks and how you like (or dislike) em. I am honestly asking what casters and combos you like to use them with because I myself sometimes have trouble spending 9 points on a leviathan, but I love the model so I field it anyways.

[Sanctjud]

I hate them so much.
They perform for me decently if given the chance.
They have pretty defined roles and are caster dependant with respect to including them.

[LordRavurion]

I have never fielded them because I do not own them yet. I will however field them if I can get my hands on the kit, as I really like the look and some of the rules are great. I eseccially like the harrower (although expensive) as he has a good gun and can keep himself feuled once he is in combat.

The leviathan and the desecrator will have some use also I imagine, as they have that little bit of extra armour and have some descent rules. Especcially when playing in fields with a lot of water effects they can be very good as their furnace can't be extinguished by water.

I am really just waiting on the first character crabjack to appear. I hope he will combine good shooting with great combatskills.

[various]

If i'm playing against Khador (and have the points) i'll usually invest in a Leviathan as it is actually possible to hit DEF10 without resorting to boosting. It has the best anti-Jack ranged weapon in the Faction and while it won't kill anything outright it is good for softening up a tough opponent before closing in for the kill, the only downsides are how Focus hungry it is and the high points cost. The Harrower is pretty decent too (i often field one with pSkarre for Dark Guidance Threshing goodness), even if it is a pricey model, and i've lost track of the number of infantry that have been Threshed to death by it(especially once you start collectimg souls). As for the Desecrator i haven't used it because it has only just been released and i haven't got around to buying it yet because i've been building a Skorne force which is eating up my funds (and i don't like proxying models). Cryx really doesn't have too many decent ranged weapons or many 'Jacks with Pathfinder so the Crabjacks bring something valuable to any force.
i think that the Leviathan needs a 'Caster that can spare the Focus to run it effectively but the Harrower is more flexible due to its ability to gather souls. Again i haven't run the Desecrator yet so i can't say how useful it is, but given how popular Banes are (either flavour) i can see it being fairly useful due to its special rule that give it Focus when it's near them. my main 'Casters are pAsphyxious, pSkarre, and eAsphyxious. i've had the most luck with the Crabjacks with the first two.

[Munindk]

I've yet to play my first game but I'm considering the Harrower with pDenny, from what I've read it seems pretty self reliant.

[Harvester]

I absolutely love them both. They excel in their respective battlefield roles. Sure the Leviathan can be a bit focus hungry but I often find that it's worth it. Using pDenny and giving it the focus it needs and maybe supported by WSC it's a terror to enemy Jacks. The Harrower is tons of fun using Morty, cast her respective spells and you have a Harrower charging 10" + reach, threshering and then moving into melee range of new targets killing even more :-)

[Areneas]

I think they are awesome. I own three metal leviathans and use them in a Morty Tier list with the DJ.

They're not like the seether that works with every caster but they do have their uses and I cannot wait for the desecrator to use with terminus, coven and mainly pSkarre.

[Adurot]

I really want to get a second Leviathan and try out eBastard with a pair of them. The potential of six shots getting tossed down range that ignore LOS kind of makes me giddy.

[zyxx]

Of all 3 Crabjacks, I have to give major props to the Harrower, as I own 2.... soon to be 3. Sure the Levi is nice, but the Levi is very focus hungry. The Harrower, on the other hand, can get by just fine with one just focus, weather you power boost from A siren or the free boost from the ILO or just have a Caster allocate it 1. And, It's the only non-character jack that can receive both focus and souls... AND use them in the same turn to buy extra attacks or boost (common, the only thing DJ does with souls is heal... which is awesome in its own right, but still...), and the souls it collects, to a max of 3 unfortunately, do not go away the following turn. The Harrower can be used to great efficiency with any of our casters, (more so with morty or pDenny, but then again, what jack isn't). Weather its sitting back shooting with its POW 14 3" AoE ghost cannon or mixing it up in melee with its P+S 16 reach weapon and Thresher, this thing is a monster on the battle field.

[blakeh1]

Leviathan is almost an auto include for me. Having a boostable range 13 attack is very useful and it can also wreck stuff in melee with its POW 17 fist. Great for softening up heavies at range and sniping stuff. RAT 5 may seem low, but against most jacks it is sufficient. Also, from turn 2 on I often find I can forfeit moving for an aiming bonus to get to RAT 7 and still have the RNG to hit stuff I need to. Having ROF 3 is really good

Harrower has been good as well, but to me really is better in melee against infantry and Cryx often doesn't lack melee oriented infantry killing potential in its list. I tend to favor the Leviathan since it fills a role Cryx is often missing.

I haven't proxied it, but the Desecrator looks good and might be the one jack I would consider marshalling with the Iron Lich Overseer, especially in an Epic Goreshade list. Even if he gets killed off early, you can bring him back with the feat.

[BakerGaspy]

Thanks for the input friends, I will try out my Levi in my list this weekend with considerations to the casters you mention

[Warlordtheft]

Thanks for the input friends, I will try out my Levi in my list this weekend with considerations to the casters you mention

With the Levi, I'd go with Morty, Coven, or P/E-Skarre. But just to add my $0.02, they are definitely worth it.

[PG_Tionas]

Leviathan is almost an auto include for me. Having a boostable range 13 attack is very useful and it can also wreck stuff in melee with its POW 17 fist. Great for softening up heavies at range and sniping stuff. RAT 5 may seem low, but against most jacks it is sufficient. Also, from turn 2 on I often find I can forfeit moving for an aiming bonus to get to RAT 7 and still have the RNG to hit stuff I need to. Having ROF 3 is really good

Harrower has been good as well, but to me really is better in melee against infantry and Cryx often doesn't lack melee oriented infantry killing potential in its list. I tend to favor the Leviathan since it fills a role Cryx is often missing.

I haven't proxied it, but the Desecrator looks good and might be the one jack I would consider marshalling with the Iron Lich Overseer, especially in an Epic Goreshade list. Even if he gets killed off early, you can bring him back with the feat.

This is pretty much exactly what I've found. In addition, having a "range" 18 gun that I can boost at will that mins at power 13 is a really, really good control piece, something that we sometimes lack as a faction. when boosted 12's kill casters, boosted 13's have a fairly high chance as well.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I'll set my loathing aside here and actually do a pros/cons post.

Pros: The crabjacks' unique abilities (Pathfinder, Steady, Amphibious) are all good if a bit situational. Their grids and armor are a little more durable than our Slayer chassis 'jacks, but still mediocre compared to other faction's heavies. They all have solid ranged attacks which aren't common in Cryx.

Cons: Low MAT and RAT, lower speed than our other 'jacks, low number of initial attacks making them VERY focus-hungry, even the Leviathan's ranged attack have relatively low P+S for such an expensive 'jack, and they cost 9 points. They are also quite easy to wreck despite the tougher grid.

Overall, they work decently well with casters that have a way to boost their MAT/RAT and can hand them focus or pseudo-focus. This really leaves the Witch Coven and Mortenebra, although there are often better options for both 'casters. The Harrower is also decent with pSkarre as Dark Guidance makes thresher attacks an actual threat against high-defense infantry. Eskarre's Black Spot spell is good with the Leviathan, but its low RAT causes issues.

[DialFforFunky]

@ Admiral_Arzar: I might not share your final evaluation, but that is a great post, and a helpful insight into your perspective. thanks!

A thing I really like about the crabjacks is their hybrid character. Each of them has the option of using them in two ways, which leaves some more room adapt to the field and to keep your opponent guessing at what you might do next. Its always better to have options. These options might not always be equivalent in power in an absolute sense, but with the diversity you'll be bound to face on the battlefield, relative power is something not to be underestimated.
That, and they look awesome.


F

[Cannotcope]

Their grids and armor are a little more durable than our Slayer chassis 'jacks, but still quite bad compared to other faction's heavies.

SPD, DEF, ARM, and damage grid of crabjacks are all exactly the same as the Ironclad chassis. DEF/ARM/Grid are comparable to Retribution jacks and the Centurion Chassis. Menoth and Khador chassis are a bit tougher. To say "quite bad" is a bit of an overstatement.

Statwise, if you really look closely at the various non-character heavy jacks, across all factions, there is actually some method to the madness of PP. It's really the bells and whistles of the weapon loads and special abilities (as well as external buffs) that lead to the huge differences between factions.

[blakeh1]

With the Levi, I'd go with Morty, Coven, or P/E-Skarre. But just to add my $0.02, they are definitely worth it.

I'd add Terminus to that list as well (or at least I almost always take a Leviathan when I run Terminus). He adds a much needed range presence. Most Terminus lists are loaded down with cheap fodder and stuff that can handle almost anything in melee and he really doesn't need a melee jack like the Harrower or Deathjack who just steal souls from him anyway.

Also add Venthrax for much the same reason.

Really the only casters that I tend to pass up the Leviathan for something else are the two Deneghra's (Epic more than regular) since they usally do better putting most if not all their FOC into casting spells/upkeeping and generally can't support it that well FOC wise. I don't really play him, but I'd also probably not bother taking one with Epic Asphyxious either

[AshenFang]

Overall, they work decently well with casters that have a way to boost their MAT/RAT and can hand them focus or pseudo-focus. This really leaves the Witch Coven and Mortenebra, although there are often better options for both 'casters. The Harrower is also decent with pSkarre as Dark Guidance makes thresher attacks an actual threat against high-defense infantry. Eskarre's Black Spot spell is good with the Leviathan, but its low RAT causes issues.

As far as Casters that help with hitting, pSkarre and both Dennys, Scaverous. Debuffs help hitting often times just as well as buffs. We also have Puppet Master available if it's one of those 'Must hit' situations.

That being said, the Harrower is pure murder with Mortenebra. Toss him some Focus if you want, hit him with Overrun, cast TV, and hit him with Ghost Walk if you will be taking freestrikes, Charge him into a group of living troops with that thresher, suck up those souls, Overrun further into their lines/hopefully caster and continue the murder with any Focus and souls you've collected.

[Deo85]

Harrower - This is our best anti infantry jack imo as having thresher with a large base is just awesome Now add in the fact you only need one soul to power this guy for the charge and sling shot him into any infantry pack to see them whittled to nothing in a 2" reach range. If you are really focus conscious and can not spare 1 focus I say bring a 2pnt siren to the party.

The other great thing about this model is the gun. I sniped UA and solos with this gun who through they were safe behind there chumps. Or I love it when people pack there models together and you hit the guy in the middle which lets the 3" AOE to spread over more victims.

Casters: Anything that helps that low MAT so debuff casters / TV from morty / Coven IM also helps the low speed problem

Levi - This is our only real walking armored gun platform. I wish the gun did not go down in base size as a shield walled target would crack under pow 15's but alas we don't get everything I guess. Now the real beauty of this weapon is not to assassinate but to weaken the frame on large targets which makes the low RAT a mute point. The downfall is of course you need to be willing to commit the focus for this guy to shine but being able to set up a stronger alpha strike is not a bad thing at all. Imagine if you will not having to commit 4 Bane Thralls to wreck a heavy now you only have to commit 2-1 pending on your rolls.

Casters: Anyone who can debuff your targets as a parasite will let your hit heavy's at PS 18 3 times and black spot puts you at a RAT of 7 and possible 6 shots that is a whole min unit

Desiccator - I play tested this guy a few times on Vassel and was not vary happy with its synergy as its range on its gun is to short to be affective in placement. You are either to fare away to shoot moving the guy behind your banes or on the flank or when you can shoot everything is engaged by your banes front line. The best I was able to get out of the guy was a counter charge model or scatter the AOE to help protect the advancing banes.