2 points left... thinking about the skinner? (yes, I am serious)

[PG_petegrrrr]

Mainly because it's almost completely impossible.

With Rage, and Bloodfury, and the KSB str aura, he'd still need to roll 5 6's and a 5 to kill the average heavy at arm 18.

And at that point, your model didn't kill the heavy, your crazy hot dice did

I once killed an ironfleshed butcher from fresh with a stone scribe. That doesn't make that a good plan. It just means I rolled stupidly high dice once on a model I had juiced out of desperation.

Most trollblood players don't use the skinner...but some players...well some players just want to watch the world burn.

[PG_thegreatblah]

There is soooo much Synergy you can throw on a skinner, i have killed a heavy beast in one turn with him before. So many people dont see them coming!

Even as a proponent of the Skinner, I find this statement to be a highly improbably outcome. Possible only very rarely but highly unlikely. I do run my SKinner's in pairs though and they can totally destroy light beasts.

[Darth_Stryker]

**** you assume to much, having no idea how i did it. Seems like you just want to hate and hear nothing possitive about the model. And no I am not going to lay out how i did it. Try looking at the model and synergy of the army yourself without complaining about it. I am sure you would be surprised at what you see.

[PG_petegrrrr]

Nothing you can do, besides accidentally breaking the rules and putting multiple animi on him, would make you need less than a roll of almost all box cars to kill that beast. I'm not assuming anything but that I have a basic understanding of math, which I think is at least a fairly safe assumption. Math says you need a roll full of sixes to kill a fresh heavy. Don't be angry at me. Be angry at math.

[wargrim]

Highest POW you get the skinner to is 14, that's with Rage, Stone, Chronicler. Average beast with ARM18 and 28 HP means you need to accomplish a damage rating of 46. With POW14, thats a damage roll of 32, averaging 5.33 per dice under Bloodfury.

Are there any more synergies to accomplish, other than beat it to pulp with other things, than charge with skinner? Because that's something that works even with Gobbers

[Darth_Stryker]

that **** was another version of lol. I dont know why they filtered it, it was pGrissel and no i didnt need to rull extremly high for the kill.

[Beckman]

Nothing you can do, besides accidentally breaking the rules and putting multiple animi on him, would make you need less than a roll of almost all box cars to kill that beast. I'm not assuming anything but that I have a basic understanding of math, which I think is at least a fairly safe assumption. Math says you need a roll full of sixes to kill a fresh heavy. Don't be angry at me. Be angry at math.

Sometimes, you're my hero.

[PG_petegrrrr]

Then It wasn't a fresh heavy.

Especially if you are not using blood mark and are down a dice.

With five dice, even juiced up to power 16 (rage, calamity, str aura, and charge of the trolls), You are still hitting at dice -1 on even the lowest armor heavies, which means you need to roll a 25 to kill, which is a five or better on every single dice, which is stupidly good dice.

[zor]

that **** was another version of lol. I dont know why they filtered it, it was pGrissel and no i didnt need to rull extremly high for the kill.

So he went in with rage and stone buff, the beast had calamity on it , you chronicled charge of the trolls and had a beast there in melee range so the skinner was rolling based on effective pow 16? Then you heroic ballad the skinner and he charges doing 5D6 followed by 4D6 to kill a beast? Arm 18 beast with 28 boxes means you rolled an average of a 3.5 on every die, which is still pretty good (average).

[PG_Celedor]

Trolls will keep eating if you keep feeding them!

[Darth_Stryker]

Trolls will keep eating if you keep feeding them!

lol i guess so

[hatchet]

What you mean to say is, many of the more vocal people on the forums hate the skinner. Some of us like the Skinner, but we don't like posting it very often becuase of the barrage of negative posts that will ensue once something postitive is said about him.

No joke, I love the skinner but the tactica I wrote for him has gotten more hateful replies than anything I've ever seen on this forum

[PG_petegrrrr]

lol i guess so

Oh man, I almost laughed out loud. Thank you sir for making my morning!

But as for the skinner, no one hates the skinner, or says "hateful" things about him. We jokingly pick on him, but almost everything negative said about him is legitimate critique of a model even backers would admit is flawed at best.

But since this is the internet, negative, reasoned critique becomes "You guys hate the skinner with a fire that burns like the sun!", because it's not an internet discussion until the hyperbole police start spraying the rioters.

[Beckman]

No joke, I love the skinner but the tactica I wrote for him has gotten more hateful replies than anything I've ever seen on this forum

For good reason.. His model is so full of epic win, that his rules are like a heat mirage in the desert, luring itinerant forumites to their doom. It's socially irresponsible to give people hope... when no hope exists. All is void of meaning... void, I tell you.

[PG_petegrrrr]

Okay...so Beckman may hate him with a fire that burns like the sun....

[Beckman]

Okay...so Beckman may hate him with a fire that burns like the sun....

Yes, yes, I do.

Edit: And it's mostly from the pain from what I could have had. You know, a model... that works.

[zor]

Skinner needs a hat tail whip attack. Usefulness x2!

[The Happy Anarchist]

No joke, I love the skinner but the tactica I wrote for him has gotten more hateful replies than anything I've ever seen on this forum

Recalibrate your internet meters.

Disagreeing =/= hate - pointing out something that doesn't work or is trivially easy for your opponent to deal with =/= hate. Pointing out just how easy it is for
most opponent to deal with a Skinner =/= hate. Pointing out how many options are just as good at hurting beasts for 2 points, and better in every other way =/= hate. Pointing out that he already has a significantly narrow role that we don't really have issues with and he doesn't even do that better than other options =/= hate.

The problem is, virtually everything that gets suggested as awesome for the Skinner is flawed, faulty math, extremely unusual or unlikely circumstances or buffs, or things that other models could have done as easily or better. We point that out and we get called haters.

[Gorg]

hope the skinner gets a kit like the ifp but in this case its a one model kit for 1 $ which contains a tiny knife which you attach to the model, a "rapid strike" sticker which you bring on on the back of the card and an apology letter from pp for the horrible original model balance design.

suddenly, he is no longer the worst model in all wm/h.

[Beckman]

Although, one nice thing about the Skinner that I can say is that he's no longer the most useless model in Hordes. The Skorne Battle Engine makes me feel sorry for Skorne players that play their Skorne more than I do.

[Grim Wingus]

The problem is, virtually everything that gets suggested as awesome for the Skinner is flawed, faulty math, extremely unusual or unlikely circumstances or buffs, or things that other models could have done as easily.

...or The Hat. Give The Hat its due.

[Syas]

suddenly, he is no longer the worst model in all wm/h.

Come on, it isn't like he is a Cygnar model...

[Beckman]

Come on, it isn't like he is a Cygnar model...

Oh, that was a good one...

Although I don't know that I agree with you. Still, that was good..

[hatchet]

now when I say hateful I don't mean it as I WILL FIND AND MELT DOWN ALL THESE MODELS FOR THEY ARE THE WORST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED TO ANYTHING but you guys don't know me so there's no way you guys could know how I use the word. Internet communication has failed all of us this day

[PG_Goldstep]

Just a a quick note -- not to beat a dead horse or anything -- but the skinner is a solo not a unit. Now I don't think anyone was confused about that, but I think in the zeal to uphold the honor of the skinner and math respectively mistakes were made .

The Charge of the Trolls is one of the stories the Chronicler tells and he and the unit he tells them to get the bonus. No solo, beast, or warlock listens to his ramblings.

No Pseudo-flank for Skinner.

[PG_Celedor]

Stop! Stop! He's already dead!

[PG_thegreatblah]

Dance Puppets, Dance!

[PG_Goldstep]

And you have us thinking of the wrong skinner now.

[eKraye]

That's fair... The skinner sounds more and more appetizing just for the fact that everyone feels there are better options... That's how tournaments are won, unexpected variables. So I think taking him is worth that alone.

Trolls in a trolls thread? Shocker, tough on every model besides beasts? Sounds like a troll to me. =P

[PG_petegrrrr]

you realize the other side of that is that tournaments must them also be LOST based on unexpected variables. so yeah, no one expects the skinner, mainly cause if a skinner showed up, it wouldn't affect more than 50% of the lists out there anyway.

Variables work both ways.

[PG_Celedor]

That's fair... The skinner sounds more and more appetizing just for the fact that everyone feels there are better options... That's how tournaments are won, unexpected variables. So I think taking him is worth that alone.

Said the guy who brought a knife to a gun fight "they won't see this coming!"

[hooligantuesday]

you realize the other side of that is that tournaments must them also be LOST based on unexpected variables. so yeah, no one expects the skinner, mainly cause if a skinner showed up, it wouldn't affect more than 50% of the lists out there anyway.

Variables work both ways.

Tournaments are won by unexpected variables that people haven't accounted for and this is the important bit, have no way to deal with! Bringing the Skinner means that your opponent looks at the board, and has to make the hard tactical decision to interpose a lone infantry model between the Skinner and his light warbeast. An unexpected variable that doesn't force your opponent to react is a pointless waste.

[Troll Of Minions]

Troll Of Minions says get a totem hunter in your list. end

[PG_petegrrrr]

Tournaments are won by unexpected variables that people haven't accounted for and this is the important bit, have no way to deal with! Bringing the Skinner means that your opponent looks at the board, and has to make the hard tactical decision to interpose a lone infantry model between the Skinner and his light warbeast. An unexpected variable that doesn't force your opponent to react is a pointless waste.

Which is what happens when your opponent plays warmachine instead of hordes, and the skinner does nothing of value.

Also, tournaments aren't won by unexpected variables. The "wacky" list wins we hear about are all by extremely good players. Skill and dice luck win tournaments, not wacky model selection.

The few times we here about it succeeding in the hands of an amaing player are the tiny majority compared to the massive amounts of times less skilled player try it, fail miserably, and tell no one about it.

[Syas]

Tournaments are won by unexpected variables that people haven't accounted for and this is the important bit, have no way to deal with! Bringing the Skinner means that your opponent looks at the board, and has to make the hard tactical decision to interpose a lone infantry model between the Skinner and his light warbeast.

..unless they play Warmachine.

[PG_somnicide]

So basically the majority of hate I am seeing here is that a 2 point model can't take out an 8+ point model without support. Also, that a single 2 point model can't take out a unit. Got it. Mat 7 on a 2 point solo is nice. So far in my admittedly low number of games he is pretty awesome late game and pretty sucky if you try and send him out as a bullet. Hunter is nice on a melee guy only late game and with good terrain on the table. Running him into a beast's rear arc is pretty funny because not many people want to risk that mat 9 5d6 hit so it causes some activation order issues where they have to send something over to deal with him or turn the beast around and deal with him that.

So in my experience he has been a decent finisher but not an amazing model. He is actually pretty good at hunting solos, but there are some solos who are much better than he is (granted, they mostly cost more).

Things I have found myself wishing he had to make him better (but would raise his cost or lower his mat) are steady or a second attack. So far he hasn't wowed me, but with realistic expectations he has been a pleasant surprise.

Now, the big and most important question, do I paint the hat like a raccoon or a skunk?

[Grim Wingus]

Now, the big and most important question, do I paint the hat like a raccoon or a skunk?

Paint it like a cat. Tabby.

[PG_thegreatblah]

Now, the big and most important question, do I paint the hat like a raccoon or a skunk?

Coonskin Cap all the way Mr. Trollsey Crockett.

[PG_petegrrrr]

So basically the majority of hate I am seeing here is that a 2 point model can't take out an 8+ point model without support.

No.

What you are seeing is a 2 point model that for some reason is designed to go after 8 point models it has no chance of killing unless they are badly damaged, and is a worse choice for points then pretty much anything else we have against everything else, and loses almost all of his benefits against the most popular side of the game (warmachine).

That may not be what you are seeing, but that is what is actually happening.

The Skinner is a model designed to damage warbeasts that is not that good at actually doing that without a lot of buffs, and is a rather poor choice to try and take out other options.

[Beckman]

So basically the majority of hate I am seeing here is that a 2 point model can't take out an 8+ point model without support.

Right. And that's THE ONLY THING he is designed to do besides limit the movement of those 8 point models. He's also useless against 50% of lists.

Also, that a single 2 point model can't take out a unit. Got it.

He charges 9.5", so he will likely be charged first by the unit. 1 hit from a unit with decent POW should toast him, barring tough.

Mat 7 on a 2 point solo is nice.

It's expected. If it was MAT 8, it would be nice. As it is, you need 7s to hit a Stalker... which is a good target for you... You know, if he didn't out-threat you and have sprint that is. Nevermind. Perhaps due to Sprint, the Davy Crocket is not so good against Circle.

So far in my admittedly low number of games he is pretty awesome late game and pretty sucky if you try and send him out as a bullet.

Explain to me how you are using him in the late game that you couldn't do the same thing with a random leftover Champion, Gator, or Long Rider.