Help against Cygnar?

[ToAzT]

Think widowmakers are worth bringing against the black 13th and gun mages?

[MollyHatchet]

Think widowmakers are worth bringing against the black 13th and gun mages?

Not really. Gun Mages reliably kill Widowmakers. Have an easier time hitting them after moving, unlike the widowmakers back.

Going one on one with those units, the Widowmakers will lose almost every time... if you keep them back a bit or keep them away from them to use against other units, then they might be helpful.

[ToAzT]

Not really. Gun Mages reliably kill Widowmakers. Have an easier time hitting them after moving, unlike the widowmakers back.

Going one on one with those units, the Widowmakers will lose almost every time... if you keep them back a bit or keep them away from them to use against other units, then they might be helpful.

Bah. That sucks. I hate gunmages.

[Frege]

Mortars are pretty nice against Gun Mages. Big enough AOE will catch a few and they are made of wet paper so will die to blast damage and at 3 points it isn't hard to fit in.

You could fight Gunline with some Guns... Rifle Corps with Joe can hit Gun Mages quite well. Add in some sort of buff like aiming or fortune and they're toast. Supressing Fire can also limit their options a little bit. My experience fighting Gunline/ranged heavy armies under multiple gaming systems is that if there is no scenario or terrain it tends to play in their hands. Running a melee heavy army results in either massive wins (you got there and munched him) or massive losses (you didnt get there and got shot)... My approach is always to take a strong melee component with some ranged as support.

You can also try Zerkova if she appeals to you. You do get one turn of relative immunity to the guns (except guys who can buy shots...) but I'd only advise it if you already want to use her because she is widely regarded as difficult to play and could easily get assissinated by unbuffed gun mages if they get LOS to her.

[ToAzT]

I don't have rifle corps, but I do have the winterguard death star, and how would Gorman Di Wolfe be? He can make clouds!

[Frege]

Gorman is defintely good and always worth 2 points for his ability to say "get stuffed" to every model in the game bar Harbinger (from memory) but 1 cloud is not going to be enough to screen troops.

[PG_The Captain]

You can also try Zerkova if she appeals to you. You do get one turn of relative immunity to the guns (except guys who can buy shots...) but I'd only advise it if you already want to use her because she is widely regarded as difficult to play and could easily get assissinated by unbuffed gun mages if they get LOS to her.

You need to be VERY careful with this. If you get close enough to shut down those gun mages' shooting, you're pretty much guaranteed to be within Sloan & Defenders' range too. Whatever you have to block their LoS to Zerkova better stay where you need it to stay.

[MollyHatchet]

Gorman is defintely good and always worth 2 points for his ability to say "get stuffed" to every model in the game bar Harbinger (from memory) but 1 cloud is not going to be enough to screen troops.

Gun Mages with UA see through the cloud, and the Stealth.

The WG Deathstar has potential, as long as it gets Iron Flesh. Can get a little rough for the Mages to hit unless aiming... and then still needs 8s to hit. Or they get Deadeye... then its 3d6 to get 10. The tough doesnt hurt either, but Gun Mages with UA is considered one of the counters to said WGDS.

[sourclams]

WGDS is a bad pick in this specific case because Sloan has Deadeye. Aiming sniped ATGM + Deadeye hit WGDS on average with longer threat ranges. You'll have to plod forwards while dying.

[ToAzT]

Hmm. Well, I feel pikemen die a little too easily as well as the Death Star dying a little too easily, so I'm not sure what list to go with.

[Joasht]

Gun Mages with UA see through the cloud, and the Stealth.

No they don't see through clouds. Nor do they see through forests. They have True Sight, not Phantom Seeker.

Best way to kill ATGMs? Probably WG deathstar. Best way to neutralize them? Just shove stuff into their face fast enough and they are practically useless. You don't need to charge them, just run at them. You can send almost anything at them, but I personally like clogging shooters with IFP due to Reach. Unless they are using, say, eCaine, they would have some issues dislodging almost any infantry you run into them.

A Cygnar player will probably always just pull shenanigans on to you until he or she wins so part of being able to play against them is knowing exactly what they can do, and preparing for them. I very rarely win by complete massacre when I play my Cygnar, unless its like my game against Retribution today; its not because Retribution is weak, but rather their DEF and ARM are managable. And ATGMs just love MHSF :P

[MollyHatchet]

No they don't see through clouds. Nor do they see through forests. They have True Sight, not Phantom Seeker.

Yea I thaught about that after I posted... Too tired to go back to the computer to change it. They DO ignore concealment though... and that 3 inch template is only 3 inches straight through the middle... and that is easy enough to ignore.

[ToAzT]

I think I'm gonna try the Butcher-camp-focus strategy next. Use Behemoth and Destroyer to try to shoot back, and then pikemen to tarpit. Should be interesting. I hate cygnar.

[Joasht]

Hmm. Well, I feel pikemen die a little too easily as well as the Death Star dying a little too easily, so I'm not sure what list to go with.

To be fair, infantry always die easily, and I personally make it a point to teach newer players that Kayazy, for all their "DEF 19" hype, can still die. But thats why you get many bodies - they are designed to die

I think I'm gonna try the Butcher-camp-focus strategy next. Use Behemoth and Destroyer to try to shoot back, and then pikemen to tarpit. Should be interesting. I hate cygnar.

It might work well. Generally if you shove enough ARM down a Cygnar player's throat, they need to go to win via scenario or assassination (unless they are using some sort of meat grinding eStryker list, for example), and pButcher is one of the toughest casters to assassinate.