Common mistakes regarding Legion of Everblight models and abilities

[EtherealPaints]

I am shamelessly stealing the cryx forum's common mistakes thread. Feel free to start posting replies with common rules mistakes that you see or have done.

Cryx Version of the thread

• Lesser Warbeasts
• Light Warbeasts
• Heavy Warbeasts
• Units
• Solos
• Warlocks
• Warbeasts - General
• Other

I am going through and merging the FAQ sticky with this thread. So props to Thunder_God for a good portion of this information.

[EtherealPaints]

Lesser Warbeasts

Shredder

• Rabid - Rabid counts as boosting, not additional dice. Therefore you can not boost in addition to rabid. Also, Rabid is an anytime ability and as such it can be used before running.
• Snacking - Does not remove the destroyed model from play unless you can actually heal (in other words the shredder must have damage on it).

Stinger

• Suicidal Attack - Triggers after snacking resolves. The Proteus animus does not allow a stinger to make two suicidal attacks in a row with a functional body aspect.

[EtherealPaints]

Light Warbeasts

Raek

• May only leap after making a full advance. May not leap after charging or running.

Nephilim Soldier

• Massacre- Only gives the 1" move and additional attack if the charge target is destroyed by the first attack (the charge attack).

Nephilim Protector

• Shield Guard - May only be used if the model that is shooting could legally declare the protector as a target for its shot. Infernal Ruling

[EtherealPaints]

Heavy Warbeasts

Angelius

• Armor Piercing - doubling/halving effects are applied before other buffs/debuffs, so it halves the base armor of the target. Angelius may only make one armor piercing attack per activation and it must be the angelius' first attack.
• Repulsion - push distances are halved in difficult terrain.

Carnivean

• Spiny Growth- triggers when the model with spiny growth on it is hit, but does not resolve until after the attack is completed. Some people seem to think that the damage from spiny growth happens before the damage roll from the attack that triggered the spiny growth damage.
• Assault - Allows a carnivean to spray targets up to 19" away, the charge part of the assault does not have to succeed in order to make the ranged attack. However, it is still a failed charge and as such the opportunity to cast its animus has already passed once the carnivean has moved.

Ravagore

• Dragon Fire - Continuous Fire does NOT ignore shields. Only attacks originating from the back arc ignore shields.

Scythean

• Chain Attack: Bloodbath - only triggers when the same target (friendly or enemy) is hit with both initials. Thresher hits all models in melee range, including friendly models.

Typhon

• Coming Soon.

Seraph

• Slipstream - Moves one model 2" max. Also, Slipstream is cast upon the Seraph/Warlock, not the model that gets moved by it. Meaning you can move a model that has a different animus on it, like tenacity, without having the tenacity drop off.
• Strafe - Elylyths feat does not allow the Seraph to get additional strafe shots. He just gets one more shot since Strafe is a Star Attack.
• Strafe - All attacks from strafe are considered to be simultaneous.
• Strafe - Does not count against RoF, so does not require fury to pay for the additional shots generated by strafe.
• Strafe - All strafe targets still have to be in range of the ranged attack or the attack will automatically miss.
• Strafe - Since all shots are simultaneous you can not force a single model to make more than one tough check per round of strafe shooting. All damage is resolved simultaneously at the end of the strafe, not after each strafe shot. Infernal Ruling

[EtherealPaints]

Units

Blighted Swordsmen

• Cleave - Cleave only triggers once per activation (e.g. The swordsmen UA Champion has two initial attacks, but only can cleave once.)
• Overtake + Cleave - Overtake triggers and resolves before Cleave.

Hex Hunters

• Hunter - Does not allow hex hunters to ignore cover/concealment since they are not making ranged attacks. All it does is allow them to ignore forests when determining LoS. (Infernal Ruling)

Raptors

• Light Cavalry - May not make the 5" light cav move unless the raptors take their action. Meaning they cannot run and take their 5" cav move.

Spawning Vessel

• Handlers - may not run or charge because there is no unit leader.
• Recycle - Does not gain tokens when models are removed from play before reaching the destroyed step. Can still gain a corpse token from a model that is used as an incubus host since they are triggered at the same time. However not from Kallus' feat.
• Corpse Tokens - A model generates only one of each type of token when destroyed (i.e.: one soul token and one corpse token). If multiple models are eligible to gain a specific token, the nearest eligible model gets the token. If a model has a limit on how many of a specific token it can have and is at that limit, it is not considered and eligible model. (Primal MKII, p 63)

[EtherealPaints]

Solos

Ogrun Warchief

• Blood Drinker - May not stop beserking with this unless the model destroyed was a living model. War Spears also benefit from this, but only on their melee attacks.
• Leadership(Blood Drinker) - Thagrosh also benefits from this, but only with his fist, not rapture (rapture removes the boxed model from play, so it never reaches the destroyed step).

Shepherd

• Beast Master - Only provides an extended forcing range. Does not allow reaving, leeching, healing or damage transfer like the superior Herding ability.

[Northern Ronin]

Slip stream. You only get to go 2 inches, you don't follow the Seraph on a massive drag.

[EtherealPaints]

Warlocks

Absylonia

• Carnivore - Models are removed from play before reaching the destroyed step. Therefore beserk, recycle, battle wizard, and any other abilities that trigger on destroyed will not have a chance to trigger.
• Carnivore - The model that heals from carnivore is the caster. Not the model/unit that has carnivore on it.

Bethayne

• Carnivore - Models are removed from play before reaching the destroyed step. Therefore beserk, recycle, battle wizard, and any other abilities that trigger on destroyed will not have a chance to trigger.
• Carnivore - The model that heals from carnivore is the caster. Not the model/unit that has carnivore on it.

Epic Vayl
Spell - Refuge

• Vayl can not shoot a friendly model for channeling and then make a refuge move. Refuge triggers from hitting enemy models only.

Spell - Admonition

• Countercharge vs. Admonition
• You may activate countercharge during your own turn if an enemy moves and triggers countercharge. (For instance they used Admonition to try and move away).
• What happens is:
  
  1. You activate a model and move it.
  2. This triggers their Admonition, so they move.
  3. Their movement triggers your countercharge, so you charge and make a charge attack.
  4. You go back to the original model and finish it's activation.
• If the model with countercharge is the one that is active, then you might get two charge attacks!
• You charge them, they move away, you countercharge them, resolve countercharge attack, resolve original charge attack. (Infernal Ruling)
• Since it is still during your activation, you may boost attacks and trigger stuff like "Sustained Attack" during the countercharge attack. (Infernal Ruling)

Epic Lylyth

• Decimation - All friendly faction models gain snipe, but only the battlegroup gets to take an additional shot (battlegroup referring to the warlock & warbeasts he/she controls) .

pLylyth

• Field of Slaughter - gives an additional die to attack rolls. So you still can add another die by boosting.
• Witch Mark - Triggers on hit, but does not allow you to interrupt your attack with a spell. You must roll damage before casting your auto hitting spells.
• Eruption of Spines - Does not discriminate between friend or foe. If your models are too close they will also get hit.

pThagrosh

• Dark Revival - Models that have been removed from play may not be returned to play.

[PG_fildrigar]

I think you can start out with an explanation of Slipstream. I see more new people get that one wrong than anything.

NINJA!

[Feeniks]

Suggesting the most common ones I see / confused me when I started:

1) Shredders: Rabid is a boosted attack/damage roll and can not be boosted further.
2) Maybe a list of which animi are 'this model' instead of 'target friendly model'
3) How the Raek can only make a full advance and Leap (Not run/charge and then leap)
4) Which units are considered Abomination and can be prone to placement mistakes causing a flee check

[PG_BloodRath]

Typhon gunfighter, charge, spray, reach with playing god, ect
I see this misunderstood allot

Rules refrence here

http://privateerpressforums.com/show...l=1#post439413

[Lanz]

Multiple abominations cause multiple individual command checks.

I've had that come up a few times where someone charges eThagrosh who has 2 forsaken nearby, I say "Okay, take 3 command checks" and my opponent is like "uh... what? Why"

And I have to explain it to them.

[SteampunkWino]

I don't field my Legion often, but many of my opponents don't know the difference between Herding and Beast Master.

[EtherealPaints]

Warbeasts - General

Blood Creation

• Power Attacks - Warbeasts with blood creation may not push, throw, slam, etc.. a friendly warlock since power attacks classify as attacks and blood creation prohibits attacking friendly faction warlocks.

Eyeless Sight

• Ranged & magic Attacks - Eyeless sight does not ignore cover, elevation, target in melee penalty. Note: It ignores Camouflage while the target benefits from Concealment, but not when it benefits from Cover.
• Channeling - Eyeless Sight has two parts: When drawing LoS, you get to ignore forests and cloud effect. When making an attack, you get to ignore Concealment and Stealth. When channeling a spell, you use the abilities on the Warlock for resolving attacks, and the abilities on the model you draw LoS from (the channeler or the caster) that deal with Line of Sight.
  So, if the Warlock has Eyeless Sight and the channeler does not (Melded Belphagor and Spell Martyr): You get to ignore Stealth and Concealment, but not forests and cloud effects.
  If the channeler has Eyeless Sight and the Warlock does not (Bethayne and Belphagor): The caster will ignore forests and cloud effects, but not Concealment and Stealth (the attack will auto-miss if the channeler is not within 5” of a target with Stealth).
• Targeting & LoS - Eyeless sight now ignores concealment and stealth at all times, not just when making attacks. Meaning, models with eyeless sight cannot see through stealthed models/units regardless of whether or not they are more than 5" away from model/unit with stealth.

Power Attack - Trample

• Trample direction does not require line of sight. You can pick a direction behind yourself! (Rules discussion)
• It is not enough to just "contact" a model, you must pass over it if you want to trample it. (Infernal Ruling)
• If there is not enough room to place the trampling model where you desire, you cannot trample there.
• The rules specify that you pick a direction you Trample in, not a point you trample to. Thus if there is not enough room to put the trampler where you deside, you must "rewind" along the line to the last legal position.
• To reiterate - you may not pick a different Trample direction just because there wasn't enough space at the end of your desired Trample.
• This may result in you trampling zero models.

Power Attack - Throw

• Power attacks are not made with a weapon. Throws will not gain special nor critical effects that the open fist has.

Power Attacks vs Incorporeal models

• Incorporeal models are immune to damage caused by power attacks and all the effects of power attacks. i.e. they can never be thrown, pushed, etc.
• Even if the warjack has a magical weapon, it doesn't matter because power attacks are never made with a specific weapon.
• Refer to the Incorporeal section in "Common model abilities" section for more info.

[Caldera02]

Would the Hunter rule not help a Hex Hunter's Hex Bolt?

[Northern Ronin]

Would the Hunter rule not help a Hex Hunter's Hex Bolt?

Hunter ignores cover and conceal for ranged attacks, which Hex Bolt is not. They can shoot it through forests though.

[ShockwaveIIC]

Rabid, Yes you can Rabid and Run. And because it's lasts for a "TURN" you're still Rabid when Dragon Storm (eThagrosh) resolves.

Bloodbath, yes i can be triggered from hitting friendly models if you need it too, even if you can not damage them.

[Jamora]

How about a breakdown on eyeless sight? What it ignores, how its used, ect.

[sterling319]

Where do you find the ruling for Shield Guard on the Protector? The ability doesn't say anything about targeting the Protector.

[Raktra]

Where do you find the ruling for Shield Guard on the Protector? The ability doesn't say anything about targeting the Protector.

It's due to the "If this model cannot become the target of the attack for any reason" clause (might be a tactical tip). No LoS etc prevents from being targeted, ergo it can't legally become the shield guard target.

[Feeniks]

Note for the Spawning Vessel: "A model generates only one of each type of token when destroyed (i.e.: one soul token and one corpse token). If multiple models are eligible to gain a specific token, the nearest eligible model gets the token. If a model has a limit on how many of a specific token it can have and is at that limit, it is not considered and eligible model. (Primal MKII, p 63)

[sterling319]

Ah, it's in the tactical tip in the Protectorate book. But not in the Cygnar or Everblight books for models with this rule. Odd.

[PG_fildrigar]

Where do you find the ruling for Shield Guard on the Protector? The ability doesn't say anything about targeting the Protector.

Here is a link to one of the discussions of it: http://privateerpressforums.com/show...=1#post1276735


Additionally, here is a link that may be of use: Unofficial errata compiled from Infernal posts in the rules forum.

http://warmachinehordes.wikia.com/wi...fficial_Errata

[Darwin_Green5]

I'm surprised no one listed eLylyth and here feat only applying to warbeasts. I know I accidentally won a game to a blighted archers "3rd" shot.

[Jamora]

I'm surprised no one listed eLylyth and here feat only applying to warbeasts. I know I accidentally won a game to a blighted archers "3rd" shot.

Ah, I didn't notice that before. Everyone gets snipe, but only beasts get a ROF+1.

[EtherealPaints]

I'm surprised no one listed eLylyth and here feat only applying to warbeasts. I know I accidentally won a game to a blighted archers "3rd" shot.

Good call. I see people misplay that all the time too.

[dunce002917]

I hope this is the thread for this, question on Slipstream.

The Slipstream target must be within 2" of the Seraph AFTER the Seraph moved or can you Slipstream a friendly model within 2" of Seraph's current location and can be placed within 2" of the Seraph after the Seraph moved?

From what I've read, if I have a Carnivean 6" away from the Seraph, I must move the Seraph towards the Carnivean in order to Slipstream the Carnivean.

How about if I have a Ravagore within 2" of the Seraph. If I cast Slipstream targeting the Ravagore and then move the Seraph 6" forward, can I then place the Ravagore within 2" of the Seraph's new location?

[Warcaster Feiss]

I hope this is the thread for this, question on Slipstream.

The Slipstream target must be within 2" of the Seraph AFTER the Seraph moved or can you Slipstream a friendly model within 2" of Seraph's current location and can be placed within 2" of the Seraph after the Seraph moved?

From what I've read, if I have a Carnivean 6" away from the Seraph, I must move the Seraph towards the Carnivean in order to Slipstream the Carnivean.

How about if I have a Ravagore within 2" of the Seraph. If I cast Slipstream targeting the Ravagore and then move the Seraph 6" forward, can I then place the Ravagore within 2" of the Seraph's new location?

All Slipstream does is place one model within 2" of their current location, so say a Seraph moves within 2" of a Carnivean and then carries on moving (where the Seraph ends it's movement is irrelevant for the purposes of Slipstream, the only prerequisite is that the Seraph moved within 2" of the model you want to benefit from Slipstream) the Carnivean gets placed within 2" of the Carnivean's current location, i.e. a 2" placement, nothing more.

[Tanglethorn]

Loving this thread. Thanks a lot for the info.

In regards to Slipstream, think of it as a 2 inch boost to the target's current location with the condition that the Seraph has to have passed within 2 inches of the target you want moved.

I think the major confusion that a lot of new players have with the Seraph's animus is that its very wordy for something that is very simple.

[dunce002917]

All Slipstream does is place one model within 2" of their current location, so say a Seraph moves within 2" of a Carnivean and then carries on moving (where the Seraph ends it's movement is irrelevant for the purposes of Slipstream, the only prerequisite is that the Seraph moved within 2" of the model you want to benefit from Slipstream) the Carnivean gets placed within 2" of the Carnivean's current location, i.e. a 2" placement, nothing more.

oh wow... that kinda is useful in a way.. especially, if the Seraph just has to be within 2" of the target of the slipstream...

[Tanglethorn]

Yep, especially since its considered a placement effect which means the slipstreamed target can still get an aiming bonus on its ranged attacks and it doesnt suffer a free strike if you placed him out of something he was engaged with.

[dunce002917]

cool beans! this can really put the hurt to my enemies... slipstream an engaged Carnivean/Scythean back 2" and I might be able to squeak another charge.. :P

[Mrfantastical]

Epic or Prime Vayl
Oraculi

• Once Vayl hits a model, she can then channel spells through that model (referred to as Channeler)
• Per channeling rules (Primal pg. 82), the Channeler can be point of origin for spells that are not range "Self" or "CTRL" and must have LOS to whatever model it targets with spells. So if Channeller has Eyeless Sight, that benefit will be used for casting any spell where the Channeler is used as point of origin.

[PG_fildrigar]

For complete clarity:

1 ) A Seraph is forced to use Slipstream / A Warlock spends Fury to use Slipstream. ( A Succubus can't use it, because it's RNG:Self )
2 ) The casting model from step 1 moves. One Friendly Faction model that the casting model was within 2" of during it's move is placed completely within 2" of it's own current location.

Note: Slipstream is cast upon the Seraph/Warlock, not the model that gets moved by it. This is occasionally relevant.

[PG_fildrigar]

cool beans! this can really put the hurt to my enemies... slipstream an engaged Carnivean/Scythean back 2" and I might be able to squeak another charge.. :P

Unless you need the extra movement, ( or are charging for free ) it is usually more advantageous for a Warbeast to walk into combat and buy additional attacks. The Carnivean does gain a good spray for charging, so that one is often worth it. The Scythean is almost always better off walking.

[dunce002917]

Unless you need the extra movement, ( or are charging for free ) it is usually more advantageous for a Warbeast to walk into combat and buy additional attacks. The Carnivean does gain a good spray for charging, so that one is often worth it. The Scythean is almost always better off walking.

I usually use the Assault order for my Carnivean... yeah it RAT 4 but I've lost count how many warlocks/casters I've hit with the spray attack...

A heavy with Rapport should charge IMO.

[Defenstrator]

I think the spell Carnivore needs some clarification. The most common mistake is that the person being healed is not the model doing the damage, it's the warlock upkeeping the spell. The second thing people over look is the timing issue. Since Carnivore revolves first it prevents abilities such as Beserk, Cleave, Overtake, and Battle Wizard from going off.

[PG_fildrigar]

I usually use the Assault order for my Carnivean... yeah it RAT 4 but I've lost count how many warlocks/casters I've hit with the spray attack...

A heavy with Rapport should charge IMO.

Assault isn't an order. It's a rule that kicks in when you Charge. And, why would Rapport make a difference? You're almost always going to do more damage by buying extra attacks.

[dunce002917]

Assault isn't an order. It's a rule that kicks in when you Charge. And, why would Rapport make a difference? You're almost always going to do more damage by buying extra attacks.

If I rapport with Rhyas, it will bump up 8 Mat and 6 Rat of the Carnivean so I'll less likely need to boost the attack roll. So basically, I'll be able to reach my target with the charge, practically pay 1 fury to boost p+s18 damage. So basically, I'll most likely hit the spray attack, hit the charge attack, get the boosted damage, hit the 2 open fist attacks and then buy up to 3 more bite attacks.. that's 7 attacks. Assuming, I'm attacking a Def 10 Khador Jack or Def 12-13 beasts/jacks. Plus the spray will most likely hit models behind the charge target (anything below Def 13).

[EtherealPaints]

Please try to stay on topic. This is not a thread about when to boost and when to buy.