Common mistakes regarding Legion of Everblight models and abilities

[@ndreas]

... Seraph:
Strafe: rolled attack number doesn't count against RoF, and Strafe shots are considered simultaneous attacks (as per Legion Theme Book).
Thus abilities on the models hit (like Sacrifice from the Exemplar Errants or Tough etc.) only trigger/getting resolved AFTER all Strafe shots are made, just like under Spray- or AoE-template.
Strafe-targets still have to be in range of the ranged attack or the attack will automatically miss.

pLylyth:
Field of Slaughter (feat) gives an additional die to attack rolls. So you still can add another die by boosting if needed.

[Tanglethorn]

... Seraph:
Strafe: rolled attack number doesn't count against RoF, and Strafe shots are considered simultaneous attacks.
Thus abilities on the models hit (like Sacrifice from the Exemplar Errants or Tough etc.) only trigger/getting resolved AFTER all Strafe shots are made, just like under Spray- or AoE-template.
Strafe-targets still have to be in range of the ranged attack or the attack will automatically miss.

Also abilties like Elylyths feat do not allow the Seraph to get additional strafe shots. He just gets one more shot since Strafe is a Star Attack.

[Cannotcope]

Spawning Vessel

• Recycle - Does not gain tokens when models are removed from play.

This is wrong (and a major pet peeve).
Please remove this part or edit it to be correct.

It should read: "Does not gain tokens when models are removed from play before being destroyed (ie: at the Hit, Damaged, Disabled or Boxed steps of resolving an attack) or if the specific remove from play ability specifies that no corpse tokens are generated from the model being destroyed and removed from play."

Remove from play does not stop corpse/soul token generation unless it removes from play before the model is destroyed or the specific remove from play ability states that no corpse/soul tokens are generated.

On a related note, that doesn't typically pertain to Legion, except when we are making attacks:

Remove from play does not stop Tough, unless it removes from play before the model is disabled. Alternatively, the specific ability with remove to play may stop tough by specifically stating that it stops tough.

Snacking and Carnivore do not stop Tough.

[EtherealPaints]

Fair enough. I should have been more clear when I wrote that. Amended to be removed from play before reaching the destroyed step.

[dunce002917]

Please try to stay on topic. This is not a thread about when to boost and when to buy.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. I'm just thinking out loud and devising ways to use slipstream against my enemies.. LOL

[Cannotcope]

Fair enough. I should have been more clear when I wrote that. Amended to be removed from play before reaching the destroyed step.

Yay, I'm happy

[EtherealPaints]

Other

• Are Theme List Tiers Cumulative?
  Yes. You must fulfill the requirements of each tier and the ones preceding it, the benefits are also cumulative. For instance, in order to make it to pThagrosh’s Tier 3 you must include the Spawning Vessel and at least two Blighted Ogrun units, as well as include only the models listed in the allowed model list. You will gain all three tiers’ benefits: FA 2 Spawning Vessels, a free Warmonger War Chief, and AD Lesser Warbeasts.
  
  
• How do Theme Lists work in two caster games?
  They don’t. The other Warlock is not part of the allowed models.
  
  
• Do *Actions or *Attacks require forcing?
  No. Not unless they specifically state otherwise.

[@ndreas]

[...]
Strafe - Does not count against RoF, so does not require fury to pay for the additional shots.
[...]

Caution: as RoF for the Seraph is only 1, it even couldn't buy additional shots, regardless of how much fury it wants to pay!
I'd suggest to delete that part of the sentence... only interesting fact is, that you can get up to 4 shot with the Strafe-action regardless of Seraph's Rof of 1, and just have to pay one fury.


... two thumbs up for EtherealPaints opening this thread and the rest for contributing to it

[EtherealPaints]

Caution: as RoF for the Seraph is only 1, it even couldn't buy additional shots, regardless of how much fury it wants to pay!
I'd suggest to delete that part of the sentence... only interesting fact is, that you can get up to 4 shot with the Strafe-action regardless of Seraph's Rof of 1, and just have to pay one fury.


... two thumbs up for EtherealPaints opening this thread and the rest for contributing to it

Modified it slightly to be less ambiguous, but I still that sentence should be in there in some form so that people don't think you have to pay for each of the shots that strafe generates.

[SageofLodoss]

Caution: as RoF for the Seraph is only 1, it even couldn't buy additional shots, regardless of how much fury it wants to pay!
I'd suggest to delete that part of the sentence... only interesting fact is, that you can get up to 4 shot with the Strafe-action regardless of Seraph's Rof of 1, and just have to pay one fury.


... two thumbs up for EtherealPaints opening this thread and the rest for contributing to it

You do not have to pay ANY fury to use Strafe. Only specials that require forcing are Power Attacks, unless otherwise stated. You do not have to be forced to use another kind of Special Attack you have on your card. A Seraph only needs to be forced during Strafe if you're boosting.

Not having to pay focus/be forced to use Star Attacks is actually probably a common mistake in the whole game.

[gelfy]

The bit most people Forget with strafe is its simultaneous, i lost a game to mulg forgetting this.

[@ndreas]

You do not have to pay ANY fury to use Strafe. Only specials that require forcing are Power Attacks, unless otherwise stated. You do not have to be forced to use another kind of Special Attack you have on your card. A Seraph only needs to be forced during Strafe if you're boosting.

Not having to pay focus/be forced to use Star Attacks is actually probably a common mistake in the whole game.

... now you have me and this thread just got more valid: I paid one fury for Strafe every time
But you are definitely right about that, it is a Special attack (*Attack), not a Power Attack (which costs one fury).
One more Fury to boost if needed


P.S. regarding Eyeless Sight there is an errata regarding the "target part". It got reworded:

p. 33. Eyeless Sight .
Replace the last sentence with the following:
This model ignores concealment (p. 57) and Stealth (p. 34).

So the model ignores Concealment and Stealth not only for purpose of attacking but every time. (not sure if it makes a huge difference though, but there may be situations where that is important.)

[SageofLodoss]

P.S. regarding Eyeless Sight there is an errata regarding the "target part". It got reworded:
So the model ignores Concealment and Stealth not only for purpose of attacking but every time. (not sure if it makes a huge difference though, but there may be situations where that is important.)

It means you can't use Stealth to ignore a wall of Bane Thralls that is more than 5 inches away and blocking LOS to Denegra. Since you always ignore Stealth now, you allow them to block LOS now.

[@ndreas]

... Stealth didn't ever make models invisible.
Models with Stealth ability always hid LoS to those placed behind them.

Maybe I didn't get your intention right, but LoS and Stealth don't interact.
Stealth only makes targets getting automatically missed, when more than 5" away, that's all.

[EtherealPaints]

... Stealth didn't ever make models invisible.
Models with Stealth ability always hid LoS to those placed behind them.

Maybe I didn't get your intention right, but LoS and Stealth don't interact.
Stealth only makes targets getting automatically missed, when more than 5" away, that's all.

That's incorrect. SageofLodoss is correct, models with stealth do not block LoS if the model declaring the target is more than 5" away from them (and doesn't ignore stealth).

[SageofLodoss]

That's incorrect. SageofLodoss is correct, models with stealth do not block LoS if the model declaring the target is more than 5" away from them (and doesn't ignore stealth).

Yep. And because you can measure to verify LOS, since you need to confirm LOS in order to make things like targeting and charging legal, this leads to the controversial and somewhat hammy allowance of "I can premeasure 5 inches to a Stealth Model if I declare that I'm checking LOS to a model behind them"

[@ndreas]

... I stand corrected: looked up the rules, not intervening model, you are right - although I never experienced such a situation game-wise.

Should have read the stealth advantage passage again before posting

[Vishnu DoW]

Question about Hex Hunters:
Does hex bolt stop beasts/jacks from making power attacks? They count as special attacks right?

[Crate123]

Question about Hex Hunters:
Does hex bolt stop beasts/jacks from making power attacks? They count as special attacks right?

That is correct, so no tramples or slams but they can still charge.

[SageofLodoss]

Question about Hex Hunters:
Does hex bolt stop beasts/jacks from making power attacks? They count as special attacks right?

Yes, it will stop beasts and jacks from power attacks. And yes they are technically a kind of special attack.

[Cannotcope]

Power Attacks are a type of Special Attack.

Just FWIW, a general (all Hordes) common mistake (or forgotten item):

-In addition to rolling 1 less die on attack rolls, a crippled Mind prohibits chain attacks and special attacks (which includes power attacks)

[Vishnu DoW]

wow thanks for all the quick responses
i did not know that about mind :O. Granted i dont think it's come up for me yet

[Feeniks]

I've seen different explanations to Saeryn's Blight Bringer and am a bit confused about it:

Can you cast it on a model and then have them move up to a location and the blight bringer stays centered on the model even after it has moved or does it only stay on the location it landed in when it was first cast?

[brilder]

Overtake + Cleave - Overtake triggers and resolves before Cleave.

You can't choose which one happens first?

[SageofLodoss]

I've seen different explanations to Saeryn's Blight Bringer and am a bit confused about it:

Can you cast it on a model and then have them move up to a location and the blight bringer stays centered on the model even after it has moved or does it only stay on the location it landed in when it was first cast?

Blight Bringer only uses the target model for centering itself on the battlefield. It is not attached to the target beast afterward. If the AOE moved with the model, it would say so in the spell, similar to how it says in Ossyan's gun's special ability.

You can't choose which one happens first?

Cleave involves an attack. Resolve simultaneous ability triggers as 'active player not producing attack' --> 'inactive player not producing attack' --> 'active player generating an attack' --> 'Inactive player generating an attack.' If both abilities fall under the same category then controlling player chooses order.

[@ndreas]

... I am not sure, if it is a mistake I made, but recently read about that the Ravagore's Blight Breath - having two damage types: - means that EVERY model that is immune to fire OR corrosion cannot be damagde by Ravagore's breath attack.

If so, I played it wrong, because I thought the second damage type would "kick in", when the first type is ignored by the target due to immunity.

But no one corrected me so far, so maybe it is a "common mistake"?
How is it done correctly?

[Tanglethorn]

If a model is immune to Fire and your breath has Fire and Corrosion, they take no damage. It sucks trust me. On a similiar topic, the model would still be affecting by any non damaging effects of the attack that they are not immune to.

For example, Ethags breath is Fire and Cold damage. A model is immune to fire, so he takes no damage from the breath, however the breath attack has Critical freeze, so the targeted model can still be made stationary if the breath hit and he rolled a crit.

[@ndreas]

... just as I feared

But luckily the Ravagore leaves a corrosion damage scatter template on the table at least.

So we could add to the topic: Ravagore can't damage models with EITHER fire OR corrosion immunity with his ranged attack.

[Talus Amaranth]

I have a quick question that I think could be a common mistake in my club. When spending Forcing to buy extra attacks, if I want to purchase more bites with Carnivian, do I have to buy all of them before I use his claws? Or can I use all of my initial attacks first, and then buy additional attacks?

[SageofLodoss]

I have a quick question that I think could be a common mistake in my club. When spending Forcing to buy extra attacks, if I want to purchase more bites with Carnivian, do I have to buy all of them before I use his claws? Or can I use all of my initial attacks first, and then buy additional attacks?

For all factions jacks and beasts it is use all of your initials first, then spend focus/force to buy additional attacks. When buying additional attacks, you declare which of the weapons it will be with.

If you started buying bites after the first one and had not used your claws yet, your Carny would have to forfeit it's claws. So do the bite and both claws, then buy whatever.

[Gath21]

Why isn't this stickied?