Octavius' amazing army list building Challenge!

[Octavius_Maximus]

Yes, here it is! The Army list building challenge.

you've never heard of it before? Well thats because I just made it up.

What this is, i hope, is part army list theory and part FUN.

The Rules

Basically how it works is that I say a force that you have to build with a certain restriction.

All normal Army list restrictions apply, points, FA, tier lists allowed.

Also, If i make a requirement which you cannot fulfill, i would hope that you try to get as close as possible.

After some time has passed, the challenge will change and you make a new list.

Not only do you make a list, though. You also have to explain why you made the choices you did and make sure that, despite the restrictions, the list is still as powerful as you can make it.

The Purpose

The Purpose, I think, is to try and think out of the box. Try to remove some of those crutches and go to models and try to consider our factions from a new perspective.

Also, Fun.

So the First Challenge is OVER:

Make a 50 point force which is only Medium Bases or larger. No models may be on a small base.

EDITED: The First Challenge is over, and the winner is Seraphius with his very interesting Retribution List.

So the Second Challenge! It is OVER:

Attempt to construct a 50 point force in which you have over 50 models.

EDIT: Yes, the second Challenge is also over, with the winners being Sanctjud with a 99 model Cryxian Horde with Steelhead support, and PG_Deranith with his legion force which isnt 5 large based models and a shepard for once, but actually is a very nice well balanced force.

So Challenge 3! Ive heard rumblings that these challenges arent working out for hordes forces, being a Warmachine player maybe im just a little biased. Alright, lets try and even it out then.

Challenge 3 is: make a 50 point list which has the most control you believe you can include and still have it be a good list. Control i will define badly here as: Any ability which the enemy must take into account and inhibits his freedom of movement and engagement without necessarily attacking them.

I know this sounds a little strange, and it is! Control is the name of the game, lets see what you can do!
Ok, GO!

[PG_ikildkenny]

mmmhhh ... only med bases ...

that pretty much discards every non-troll caster except some singles in some factions ... well, regardless:

System: Warmachine
Faction: Butcher - Heart of Darkness
Casters: 1/1
Points: 50/50
Tiers: 2
The Butcher of Khardov (*6pts)
* Demolisher (9pts)
Man-o-war Bombardiers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Man-o-war Shocktroopers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
Man-o-war Drakhun (without dismount) (4pts)
Man-o-war Kovnik (3pts)
* Demolisher (9pts)
Man-o-war Kovnik (3pts)
* Demolisher (9pts)

I like the Kovniks' Drive ... in Butchers Feat this means 2 4" AOEs with 3 Dice to Hit and 3 on every Damage ... one even with 4 ... on EACH Demolisher ...

[quindraco]

Make a 50 point force which is only Medium Bases or larger. No models may be on a small base.

Any Trollbloods force without pygmies or whelps.

[Antigonus]

Any Trollbloods force without pygmies or whelps.

Though Borka must be excluded due to the Keg Carrier.

[CeltKhan]

Karchev the Terrible
4 Berserkers
2 Kodiaks

[gaminguy]

Rules Skorne out, we can't build a functional list without Beast Handlers.

[PG_Sobek]

Rules Skorne out, we can't build a functional list without Beast Handlers.

Well, he didn't say that it had to be functional.....

That said, Mercs and Ret CAN'T build such a list.

[Mr.chair]

Rules Skorne out, we can't build a functional list without Beast Handlers.

That's not entirely true. Xerxis' theme list functions all right without paingivers and it packs a lot of medium bases. The paingivers are great, but fury and the feat are enough for damage output, and the free charge, while awesome, is not indispensable.

[Antigonus]

Even Minions can have a go, thanks to Blindwater...

Bloody Barnabas - +6
Blackhide Wrastler - 9
Ironback Spitter - 8
Bull Snapper - 3

Gatorman Posse (5) - 9
Gatorman Posse (5) - 9
Gatorman Posse (5) - 9

Wrong Eye and Snapjaw - 9

Total - 50 (inc. warbeast points)

[Antigonus]

Even Minions can have a go, thanks to Blindwater...

Bloody Barnabas - +6
Blackhide Wrastler - 9
Ironback Spitter - 8
Bull Snapper - 3

Gatorman Posse (5) - 9
Gatorman Posse (5) - 9
Gatorman Posse (5) - 9

Wrong Eye and Snapjaw - 9

Total - 50 (inc. warbeast points)

[katadder]

tier 2 thaggy:

pThaggy
-Carni
-Scytheanx2
-Ravagore
Max Warmongers
Max Warspears
Free warmonger war chief

[Dan from Chicago]

Cygnar can't do it. Only med-base caster comes with small base solos

[-Vinsent-]

Kraye can though hes a on a large base

[PG_DaveZee]

Cygnar can't do it. Only med-base caster comes with small base solos

A Kraye Jack-only list or with cav and Laddermore?

[ZeeWulf]

Kraye with Cav. That's the way to pull it off for cygnar.

[Palmer_v1]

I thought it would be easy using Mortenebra until I remembered her attachment is on a small base. I guess the most feasible Cryx list would probably be something like Scaverous with Soulhunters, Darragh Wrathe, Black Ogrun/Bloodgorgers, and a few jacks.

[seraphius]

Retribution of scyrah
(though not possible to make since we only have small based casters.. i will use Evyros since we are expecting him to be mounted, and assuming +6 jack points, or if that does not count for you.. and we can use the small base we have.. insert normal vyros)

E/pvyros
Discordia
Hydra
full destor unit
destor thane
destor thane
fane knight skerryth
Force generator
House shyel artificer

We don`t know what Evyros will do, but beeing mounted i should think he brings good stuff for our thanes and mounted units/solos.

The destors/thanes/fane knight are all fast, high arm and decent in melee/shooting with many boxes .
hydra and discordia is there for ranged support and a little added protection form discos imprint, hydra is focus effective.

Force generator for more shooty goodness, at worst it can walk in front and screen whatever is behind it while shooting.

the artificer adds more support with anti aoe and bonus to def, he will not keep up with the mounts, but will add aoe immune to the generator and +2 def.

All in all the army is fast, high armed, good amount of shooting and good melee skill.

Biggest drawback is low model count

[seraphius]

doub posted

[allistorpreist]

Casters: 1/1
Points: 50/50

Captain Jeremiah Kraye (*6pts)
* Hunter (6pts)
* Minuteman (5pts)
* Cyclone (9pts)
* Stormclad (10pts)
Steelhead Heavy Cavalry (Leader and 2 Grunts) (6pts)
Storm Lances (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire (4pts)
Major Katherine Laddermore (5pts)

That is my current line up. It was inteneded to be all Cav. The current thinking is using the steelheads to screen Kray and Alexia to keep nasty magic away. The jacks are the usual combo of Jack Bullet and cover (although the Stormclad may get dropped for Rowdy, causing a realighnment of jacks) with the minute man clearing mobbed infantry. The Stormlances give me a deep flank and some hit and run. The steel heads may step into that role as well depending on the situation.

but I think there are other possibilities Lessie...

Casters: 1/1
Points: 50/50

Captain Jeremiah Kraye (*6pts)
* Centurion (9pts)
* Ol' Rowdy (9pts)
* Thunderhead (12pts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Ogrun Assault Corps (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Bosun Grogspar (2pts)
Gudrun the Wanderer (3pts)
Ogrun Bokur (3pts)Another Jack Bullet list with a tarpit instead of a flank. Gundrun and Grogspar are basically there to run havok and draw fire. I would consider replacing the centurion with the Ironclad so I could squeeze in Bloody Bradigan, but I don't recall if he is on a medium base. Oh, and Ogrun for CRA or a pile of templates.

[seraphius]

and to the people who say can`t be done.. the OP did say get as close as you can by following rules.. ie you can use a small based caster you don`t have a medium or large base

[PG_Agamemnon]

Now who is willing to run a tournament based on these rules...

[Earthcrosser599]

Hmmmm...

-Xerxes
-Bronzeback
-Gladiator
-Karn
-Cyclops Savage
-Cyclops Shaman
-Max Feroxii
-Rhadeim

Get a Fury'ous something to the target.

[gaminguy]

That's not entirely true. Xerxis' theme list functions all right without paingivers and it packs a lot of medium bases. The paingivers are great, but fury and the feat are enough for damage output, and the free charge, while awesome, is not indispensable.

Xerxis theme force requires weapon crews to get past tier 2, but I suppose you have a point. Upkeep cycling Fury without Marketh really hurts Xerxis for transfers and you're really limiting how useful his beasts are though.

[Nyeusi]

Yeah, even just using small based caster playing mercs wouldn't be easy.
Faction: Four Star Syndicate
Casters: 1/1
Points: 50/50
Drake MacBain (*6pts)
* Nomad (6pts)
* Rocinante (9pts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Steelhead Heavy Cavalry (Leader and 4 Grunts) (10pts)
Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire (4pts)
Gudrun the Wanderer (3pts)
Ogrun Bokur (3pts)
Wrong Eye & Snapjaw (9pts)
* Bull Snapper (3pts)

Not as terrible as it should be though.
Why I made the choices I did? I see. Not that many options.

[MagnustheJust]

Mercenaries get a small exemption - the warcaster only - as we have no medium or large based warcasters... yet.

So without further ado {or to do}

Damiano {+6}
~ Talon - 4
~ Vanguard - 5
~ Rocinante - 3{9}

Ogrun Bokur - 3
Ogrun Bokur - 3
Stannis - 4
Wrong Eye & Snackjaw - 9

max Boomhowler & Co. - 9
max SH Heavy Cav. - 10

[Ssilmath]

High Executioner Reznik (-6)

Scourge of Heresy (9)
Templar (8)
Reckoner (8)
Dervish (4)

Exemplar Bastions (8)
Exemplar Cinerators (8)
Exemplar Vengers (11)

I would definitely run this in a tournament, it is slow moving but would hit like a truck, with Ignited Vengers providing a fast moving and hard hitting flanking force.

[MaSc]

Captain Jeremiah Kraye (*6pts)
* Hunter (6pts)
* Hunter (6pts)
* Hunter (6pts)
* Minuteman (5pts)
* Minuteman (5pts)
* Avenger (9pts)
* Ol' Rowdy (9pts)
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (Boomhowler and 9 Grunts) (9pts)

49/50 points

This list have a very decent tarpit with Boomhowler, good range threat with three Hunters and the occasional use of Mage Sight.
Ol' Rowdy is a work horse and the Avenger can shot or be a good threat with his Sword.
The Minutemen can wipe out infantry swarms or be an assassination tool.

[Vedrial]

I don't think there is any faction in the game that can pull this off at tier 4... I tried, but I can't come up with anything. pButcher comes the closest, but is one medium based solo short of tier 3...

[SillySod]

Now who is willing to run a tournament based on these rules...

I'd love to run or play in a tournament with off-kilter rules... but eliminating over 80% of the casters seems pretty yawn-tastic

[Antigonus]

I like a challenge, Vedrial...

pDoomshaper (+7)
- Earthborn Dire Troll - 10
- Dire Troll Mauler - 9
- Mulg - 12
- Troll Axer - 6
- Troll Bouncer - 5
- Trollkin Heston (Runebearer) - 2

Janissa - 3

Runeshapers - 3
Runeshapers - 3
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes - 4

50 points, T4, nothing smaller than a Medium base.

[Antigonus]

Alternatively...

Maelok the Dreadbound (+6)
- Boneswarm - 4
- Boneswarm - 4
- Boneswarm - 4
- Swamp Horror - 8

- Max Gatorman Posse - 9
- Max Gatorman Posse - 9

- Witch Doctor - 2
- Witch Doctor - 2
- Witch Doctor - 2
- Witch Doctor - 2
- Wrong Eye and Snapjaw - 9

49 points, tier 4, job done again.

[PG_Vidoter]

You rang?

Arkadius' Theme Force
The Good Doctor (+6)
- War Hog - 7
- War Hog - 7
- War Hog - 7
- War Hog - 7
- War Hog - 7
- War Hog - 7
- War Hog - 7
- War Hog - 7
50/50

Go crazy, then frenzy to get rid of fury. And heal 8 beasts d3+1 each turn

Or you can take Carver:

Lord Carver, BMMD Esq. III (+6)
- War Hog - 8
- War Hog - 8
- War Hog - 8
- War Hog - 8
- War Hog - 8
- War Hog - 8
- War Hog - 8
50/50

7 beasts, 10 DEF/21 ARM under BDtH. Have fun killing them

[Hashmal]

Another variant on Reznik, since he incorporates some of the fun of the Choir: enemies will be unwilling to sling magic against the 'jack wall.

Reznik
-Crusader x2
-Vanquisher x2

Bastions (full)
Cinerators (full)
Vengers (full)
Wracks

Thoughts: I'd be half-tempted to play this on more than a semi-regular basis. Reznik is a fun 'caster and packs Ignite and Iron Aggression, helping to shore up the absence of the Choir. He's focus-strapped, but Vanquishers need little in the way of focus to get the job done and aren't unduly punished by the lack of the Choir. Crusaders pack a high base P+S. Cinerators and Bastions are meatshields that can lay a pretty decent hit once they arrive - if you prefer one over the other, just switch them (I prefer Bastions, but I only have one squad, thus...). Vengers are a fantastic Ignite target - if lightly damaged prior to engagement, they're charging in with MAT 9 P+S 18 weaponry. That'll put the fear of god into anybody.

Problem is, any competitive 'caster or 'lock will eat this army for breakfast.

Pros: Tough as nails, hard hitting, excels at clearing a variety of targets.

Cons: Slow, no Pathfinder support, susceptible to mass debuffs, susceptible to stationary/knockdown

Good matchups: Many other armies engaging in this exercise.
Bad matchups: Denny1 (nobody cares about Witch Hound if your battlegroup is effective SPD 1); Kreoss1; Sorscha1; many others.

To be boring, here's two other lists, if you felt the need. Both are Theme lists.

Reznik
-Reckoner x5
-Repenter

Cinerators (full) x2
Wracks

Hey, Reckoners are good so let's take 5.

Harby
5 Heavy 'jacks + Avatar
One Light 'jack
Season to taste

May as well get a roll bonus out of taking so much armor.

[Exemplar's_Gaze]

Epic Severius +6 TIER 4

Guardian - 9
Reckoner - 8
Vanquisher - 8
Exemplar Bastions (full) - 8
Exemplar Cinerators (full) - 8
Exemplar Vengers (minimum) - 7
High Exemplar Gravus - 5
Covenant of Menoth - 2
Wracks - 1

50 Points exactly. Bam.

[PG_Paingiver]

Rasheth Tier1

Rasheth +5
Bronzeback titan -9
Bronzeback titan -9
Titan Sentry -8
Titan Sentry -8
Titan gladiator -7
Titan gladiator -7
Titan gladiator -7

Total=50

[Octavius_Maximus]

Retribution of scyrah
(though not possible to make since we only have small based casters.. i will use Evyros since we are expecting him to be mounted, and assuming +6 jack points, or if that does not count for you.. and we can use the small base we have.. insert normal vyros)

E/pvyros
Discordia
Hydra
full destor unit
destor thane
destor thane
fane knight skerryth
Force generator
House shyel artificer

We don`t know what Evyros will do, but beeing mounted i should think he brings good stuff for our thanes and mounted units/solos.

The destors/thanes/fane knight are all fast, high arm and decent in melee/shooting with many boxes .
hydra and discordia is there for ranged support and a little added protection form discos imprint, hydra is focus effective.

Force generator for more shooty goodness, at worst it can walk in front and screen whatever is behind it while shooting.

the artificer adds more support with anti aoe and bonus to def, he will not keep up with the mounts, but will add aoe immune to the generator and +2 def.

All in all the army is fast, high armed, good amount of shooting and good melee skill.

Biggest drawback is low model count

HOORAY!

I'm going to call the first challenge closed, with Seraphius as the winner.

This challenge isnt about making the best list, it is about creating a list which is strange and off the wall, and being able to see it in your mind about how all the pieces fit together.

Seraphius' list, i think, is great because he worked with a force that naysayers said couldnt work because apparently "ret doesnt have medium based models.

So the first post has been changed to reflect the new challenge! I hope you all enjoy this and continue!

[Sanctjud]

Hmmm

(4)Coven +5
(1)-Helldiver 3
(1)-Helldiver 3
(10)10 McThralls 5
(10)10 McThralls 5
(10)10 McThralls 5
(10)10 BloodWitches 6
(10)10 BloodWitches 6
(10)10 Steelhead Halberdiers 6
(10)10 Steelhead Halberdiers 6
(4)Necrosurgeon 2
(4)Necrosurgeon 2
(2)NecroTech & Scrap Thrall 1
(2)NecroTech & Scrap Thrall 1
(2)NecroTech & Scrap Thrall 1
(3)Scrap Thralls 1
(3)Scrap Thralls 1
(3)Scrap Thralls 1

99 Models, 50/50 points

Win Condition: Deathclock your Opponent. Trolololol?

The Good:

Otherwise, this list has ALOT of anti-infantry: Reach CMA, Mucho Gang, multiple attack McThralls.
The list can do attrition with Surgeons replenishing the McThralls and picking up other corpses.

Bloodwitches Wave 1. Can provide rolling cloud shivving each other and are fast enough to crash into enemy lines and gang it up.
SH Halbs Wave 2. They have a longer threat range to scaplel out targets with CMA after the Bloodwitches commit.
McThralls Wave 3. Who should be larger with the corpses from the 4 living units in front of them. They are the 'heavy' hitters and weight of numbers option.

Necrotechs are mainly Reach/Medium base to block line of sight...Scrap Thralls are likely last wave, flank watch.
Helldivers are late game slammers.

Coven focuses on delivering their army, handing out multiple Ghost walks to make terrain a non-issue. Feating to protect the early mad dash. Veil and Occult whatever I want to get better defence agaisnt shooting.

As for scenario, they physically block alot of space, compounded by reach troopers and wave upon wave of infantry means constant pushing.
Literally, you 'can' deathclock the opponnet. You are just running everything, it takes more time setting up charges, making the most of quickwork to try and kill more, resloveing sprays and AOEs.... as touchy as this issue is recently.

The list mainly focuses on swarming the board, drowning the opponent in bodies.

The Problems:

No Arc node for more offensive casting of Stygean and Curse.
Even with CMA/Gang/Combostrike, there is a lack of a true heavy hitter.
There is no prime Infernal Machine target, there is no heavy for the jack bullet the Coven are known for.
There will still be a lack of effective space for each unit, and AOE's can't be avoided.

Some random thoughts

PS: I aimed for highest model count lol

[Octavius_Maximus]

A flying start with a great list, but dont forget that i cant call a winner if you dont explain yourself, how will this list work? What are the downsides to it?

[kaneblaise]

kaneblaise's Cryx list of never-dieing

Pirate Queen Skarre6
Deathjack12
Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts)9
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Brute Thrall 3
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Brute Thrall 2
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Brute Thrall 2
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls
Revenant Crew (Leader and 9 Grunts)

Three different unit types that can all replenish their numbers. March straight up to combat. First the Thralls who run up to engage. Any of these that die to the opening volleys can simply be brought back using their own corpses. Next the Revenant Crew and Blackbane's. When they are in charge range Skarre pops her feat. Skarre and Deathjack hold back to help clean up anything that survives her feat turn. This list forces you to eliminate huge swaths of infantry very quickly or have huge P+S attacks all over your forces. Weaknesses include Stormsmith trios (not too common), and things with berserk+overtake esque combos. I don't know that even Krueger could take down this entire list fast enough, but he would certainly be one of the bad match-ups.

[PG_Killdrath]

Faction: epic Irusk - The Art of War
Casters: 1/1
Points: 50/50
Tiers: 4
Supreme Kommandant Irusk (*5pts)
* Behemoth (13pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Kayazy Assassin Underboss (2pts)
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (0pts)
* 3 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeers (3pts)
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
* Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard (2pts)
* 2 Winter Guard Infantry Rocketeers (2pts)
Winter Guard Mortar Crew (Leader and Grunt) (3pts)
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich (2pts)

Tier 4 list. That is a LOT of Infantry and between all the AOE's and Spray attacks should do a number on most anything. Battle Lusted Kayazy are just rude.