pIrusk Spamwich, 35 points.

[Joasht]

I have a reputation somewhat of being the "infantrymachine Khador dude" since my return to the Motherland, as prior to my return most of the Khador players were doing heavy ARM stuff, not infantry hordes as I'm so accustomed to since my time in Mk.I.

I figured I might as well take it to the extreme with this list; frankly I have no clue how good or how bad the list will perform, and will probably wildly swing both ways depending on what I'm against. Without further ado, I present to you the Spamwich.

pIrusk
-Berserker
-War Dog
Max IFP + UA
Max Kayazy + UA
Winterguard Deathstar (full works)
Reinholdt

43 models at 35 points.
The look on the faces of my opponents would surely be priceless, although I must admit, the thought of playing this list already makes me tired haha.
The list is fairly self-explanatory, with two ideal Bloodlust targets (IFP and Kayazy) and the IF can go onto any one of them (probably prioritize WG above Kayazy or IFP, but the beauty of the list is I can decide which one gets better benefit from it). The Berserker will probably do absolutely nothing all game, but thats alright.

Thoughts?
Thanks!

[bitmatic]

I like it a lot.... A whole lot...

I think you will find that a Berserker on Superiority is nothing to sneeze at. It has DEF 13, and is immune to knockdown, so it will require boosts to hit. Most of your heavy killing should be done by the IFP and WGI CRA's anyway, so the berserker is mostly there as a wildcard threat.

The only change i would make if i were you was dropping the War dog and a rocketeer for Sylys Wyshnallyr. With Sylys in the list you can upkeppe both Superiority and Iron Flesh and still have enough focus to cast Battle Lust and Inhospitable Ground.
Sylys' Arcane Secrest in combination with Reinholdts Lucky Charm also makes for some über-awesome Airbursts.

[Gazzor1]

That list. It's an

Nice list. Is going to steamroller a lot of people I think. Timing of the feat is obviously key. This is why of my 2 Khador lists my Anti Khador list (PButcher) contains 8 3" AOEs as well as 2 Berserkers that half the time can double up as a comedy 8" AOE as a desperate measure.


Gaz

[mcpolle]

Just hope its not a hard core list, as trying to play that in 5-7 mins would give me a huge head ache:-)

[freelancerebel]

Wheres my pKrueger anti infantry spam list??? I think this list would still give it problems though to the sheer volume of dudes and the feat......

[Joasht]

I'm actually curious to play this list against an anti-infantry list, to see whether it somehow reaches sufficient saturation to make it so that it still gives a headache to those players hahaha

[Saekyn]

I really wish I had the models to field this list. It's been my (admittedly limited) experience that Kayazy Assassins with Battle Lust can wreck a jack on their own, so this list really appeals to my idealistic side: there's a Spartan wall for the enemy to crash against, a gun company, and a bunch of nimble assassins.

Knowing my Cryx friend, he'd quickly switch out for a list containing mostly Bile Thralls, but I still really want to try it out.

[Ezeziel]

Really nice! maybe a little to many models to space out, but all of the units are fully functional with either IF or Battle lust, Battle lust on charging WGI with bears's strength, CMA etc are just as bad as the others...

[ColinT]

Super cool list. Are you gonna bother casting Superiority on the zerker? Or just save all that focus for battle lusty goodness?

[talthar]

Oh I am so trying this list next time I play. If my opponent thought my 50 pt Harkevich list with a full Demo Corps and WGI was bad, wait til he sees this.

[Joasht]

Wow, far more positivity than I expected, thanks guys!
To be completely honest I was expecting something along the lines of "Too many infantry, XXXX will murder you" or something equally negative haha

Super cool list. Are you gonna bother casting Superiority on the zerker? Or just save all that focus for battle lusty goodness?

Actually, my current thought on the list is to sub in Sylys. This serves two main purposes:
1) Free Upkeep means I can upkeep both Superiority and Ironflesh while still having enough to double Battle Lust if needed, as bitmatic said. The only thing stopping me prior was that my Sylys wasn't painted, but I got that fixed tonight haha

2) Sylys gives +2" range on spells. In my head, at the very least, this means I can position pIrusk even further from my men and still be able to cast support buffs on them. Fact is, if I end up going for things like double Battle Lust (won't always happen, but hey, it could) that leaves pIrusk pretty vulnerable, so I'm hoping the extra 2" would keep him that wee bit safer.

[Leprousy]

I actually played the scaled down version of this last night with only 36 models at 35 points.

pIrusk
Juggy
Sylyss
IFP max +UA
Kayazy max +UA
Great Bears
widowmakers
Saxon Oric
Reinholdt

Pretty much I dropped the WGI for utility solo's and widow makers and Great Bears. I found my Friend was so overwhelmed by the two waves of infantry he didn't even have time to look think about my widow makers, who pecked off his solo's. It was so unevenly matched my Great Bears only got one kill, and the Juggy just got to play Irusk shield and never even saw melee.

I would say another solo to get is Saxon. Once you drop that many infantry you're going to run into terrain issues. I found Saxon amazing for that.

[Joasht]

I actually played the scaled down version of this last night with only 36 models at 35 points.

I typically use something like your list in my normal games (vast majority of my Khador armies are built around two max units and other smaller units or solos) so having a 30-ish model count is my status quo, but the whole idea of the Spamwich list was to totally break my model count

[talthar]

Thinking about bumping up this list to 50 pts by dropping one WGI Rocketeer, replacing the Beserker for the Spriggan and Reinholdt and the War Dog for Sylys and adding Valachev and a max unit of Nyss Hunters. Thoughts?

[Joasht]

Thinking about bumping up this list to 50 pts by dropping one WGI Rocketeer, replacing the Beserker for the Spriggan and Reinholdt and the War Dog for Sylys and adding Valachev and a max unit of Nyss Hunters. Thoughts?

Frankly thats pretty much what I'd do at 50 points too, although to be honest I was toying with the idea of keeping the jack simple (because lets face it, that Warjack isn't going anywhere behind your swarm of infantry unless you run it in some strange flanking maneuver...).

On a related note,

Its a fairly impressive army on the table (especially when fully painted, keke) at 35 points. Notice that I swapped out my Dog/Reinholdt for Sylys.

Its hard to say how good/bad the list is from just one game with it so far, but from the looks of disgust/horror/humor on the face of my opponent/bystanders, at the very least its an intimidating list haha.

That said, my initial perception of the list is that it achieves obscene target saturation and battlefield coverage once spread out, forcing your opponent to deal with it immediately, or die horribly. My opponent was a pSorscha list (piloted by possibly the most experienced Khador player in my meta), but even with pSorscha's considerable advantage against infantry (i.e. stationary totally neuters them), a combination of shoving my men up far enough to threaten him enough to force the feat, combined with pIrusk's feat and keeping my caster right at the back far away from the front of my army means that there is this good possibility you force your opponent's hand, so to speak, as it did happen in this game.

The "you'll have issues with 7 minute turns" issue IMO is a legit concern somewhat, but heres my take on it:
1) Generally speaking while your opponent is moving, you kind of know what you want to do. Its then just a matter of figuring out the most optimal way to achieve the said objective.

2) This is probably a personal thing of mine, but I'm used to piloting larger armies due to my gaming background, and have many defensive stats in the game memorized, so math is little issue. That said in this one game I did admittedly take rather long on my turns because of my inexperience with this specific list, but that said, I noticed something that was rather unexpected;

3) Your opponent won't necessarily move fast either. While people can get used to facing infantry lists, I think it was probably the shock and awe of me bringing so many models at 35 points (good ones at that....man Khador infantry never ceases to amaze me) but my opponent also took *quite* some time to figure out his moves. Because of the somewhat comparatively fluid flexibility of an infantry horde backed by pIrusk (i.e. everything in my list can deal with infantry and warjacks) sometimes suboptimal choices can cost the opponent the game. It is my initial hypothesis that if you managed to get enough practice with this list, its likely that you'd be able to play this list effectively at 7 minutes/turn, while if your opponent is uncertain on what to do when facing such an army, he/she might actually not do too well on the clock either.

Overall it was a good game, my friend and I had a great time playing it. I did win, but it certainly wasn't an easy fight at all. Against another attrition army, you can actually realistically get out-attritioned, in which case the playstyle has to shift a little bit more towards assassination or objectives.

[talthar]

Finally got a chance to play the Sylys version of the 35 pt list vs a pHoarluk list. My opponent, who usually plays Cygnar, wanted to try something different. He brought 2 Fell Caller Heroes, 2 units of zchampions, a unit of Scattergunners, a Pyre Troll and a Blitzer. It was a Mosh Pit fight but the scenario proved irrelevant as my Kill Stroked and next turn Battle Lusted Kayazy Assassins killed Hoarluk real good. In all fairness he was hampered by horrible dice rolls throughout the game; he made a grand total of 2 Tough rolls LOL. Still, another glorious victory for the Motherland and the Empress.

[Carrington]

Just hope its not a hard core list, as trying to play that in 5-7 mins would give me a huge head ache:-)

The question that comes up: are movement stands legal, and how would you make one for a WGDS?

[Joasht]

The question that comes up: are movement stands legal, and how would you make one for a WGDS?

Honestly speaking if you were running on a timer, its very reasonable to actually move and position them without using strange funky equipment. You could do it all manually, or "leap frog" with your grunts if your opponent permits it. The most time consuming process I've found in these games is actually deciding what exactly to do; infantry swarms tend to be flexible, so then its just a matter of rolling dice. Hope you have a lot of them....