pGaspy @ 35 - Infantry Ahoy!

[Corbeau]

Finally got back to the FLGS to play again, and once again my pGaspy list got completely destroyed. Part of that was tactics (I played Gaspy too far back to actually go melee anything, since I'm used to running 14/14 mage-type warcasters), part of that was bad dice (the Nyss whiffed every single attack, including a 6-man CRA), and part was the list (insufficient force concentration). Time for a new plan. Here's what I'm looking at now:

Iron Lich Asphyxious (*6pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Skarlock Thrall (2pts)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Satyxis Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Satyxis Raider Sea Witch (2pts)
The Withershadow Combine (5pts)
Pistol Wraith (3pts)
Pistol Wraith (3pts)

My old list had three problems: Nightmare was actively anti-synergistic and extremely expensive, I had no Skarlock to cast buffs/debuffs for Gaspy, and I had no good way to tie up my opponent's army so that I could feel reasonably safe moving Gaspy forward. So I've swapped Nightmare out for Satyxis, and pulled my Warwitch Siren for a Skarlock. Not including a Captain is debatable at best, I know, but I don't have the points when I absolutely love having a double Pistol Wraith composition. Though I'm consistently terrible with infantry positioning, this list looks rather flexible and maneuverable. Probably way better with a Captain though... somehow...

[Barrynstein]

Have you considered using a nightwretch in place of the deathrippers, or even just switch out one. I've been playing pGaspy with two nightwretches and it's workd out pretty well. I don't bother giving the nightwretches any focus unless they are running, but their short range shots actually help me measure for, and control the deviations of BoC, which has helped me tremendously.

[Sanctjud]

The lack of a Siren and Captain disturbs me.

[SteampunkWino]

I ran this for two games last night and had loads of fun.

Asphyxious1
Cankerworm
Deathripper
Full Satyxis Raiders + UA
Full Blood Witches + UA
Withershadow Combine
Bloat Thrall
Gerlak Slaughterborne
Satyxis Raider Captain
Skarlock Thrall

Because of my match ups the Bloat Thrall was ineffective but its only two points so; meh. I do agree with Barrynstein though; I will be replacing my deathripper for a nightwretch when I run this again.

[Gamingdevil]

I will be replacing my deathripper for a nightwretch when I run this again.

I supposed it can be a good way to pre-measure, but I prefer Deathrippers with pGaspy, simply because, with his spells, they can become monsters in a pinch.

[Kuwanger23]

I prefer melee nodes with asphyxious. And he is one of the few casters I do. Scything touch parasite can save you and win games. Especially with sustained attack.

[SteampunkWino]

I use 'rippers with Asphyxious2 and have pulled victories because of sustained attack.

I usually end up committing the single arc node early for cloud placements with Asphyxious1. Once it gets systems wrecked I start using it as a slam target or slam post. I definitely see the solid buff/debuff tactic for the 'ripper. I lean on 'rippers pretty hard, so nightwretches are a slight way of diversifying my playstyle.

[Bittersashes]

The lack of a Siren and Captain disturbs me.

Skarlock trumps Siren in my experience for a pGaspy list. Gaspy relies more on teleporting than camping, and with his spell costs, finding 2 focus to run the jacks isn't an issue (3 for a cloud, 2 to teleport and 2 for the jacks = 7), so Power Booster isn't that helpful. Being able to juggle Scything Touch and Parasite a second heavy is brilliant, though, and frees Asphyxious up positionally.

I have no strong feelings about the Captain either way, really.

[BolgGorog]

Iron Lich Asphyxious*
* 2x Deathripper* 4 points each
* Skarlock Thrall* 2 points
10 Nyss Hunters* 10 points
Satyxis Raider Captain* 2 points
10 Satyxis Raiders* 8 points
* Satyxis Sea Witch* 2 points
2x Warwitch Siren* 2 points each
Withershadow Combine* 5 points

Just think that you don't need the double PW in your list, so i would take 2 x WS and the captain.

[Danny_Darko]

I've found two pistol wraiths to be a lot more useful than one. Two can take put a much bigger dent in a unit (and with the combine too maybe take it out) and increase chances of getting a deathchill off the turn you really need too. But 6pts is also a lot to spend on them. I'm experimenting using Satyxis without the captain but I'd still rather take her than not. Anyway back to the list... I'd drop the nyss bump a deathripper up to cankerworm, add the raider captain, a warwitch siren and 5pts for a min unit of something

[Sanctjud]

Gaspy relies more on teleporting than camping, and with his spell costs, finding 2 focus to run the jacks isn't an issue (3 for a cloud, 2 to teleport and 2 for the jacks = 7), so Power Booster isn't that helpful.

I realize this is from your experience, but I must say that your play style is only one of many ways to play pGaspy. It is not the 'only' way and honestly, I think it's inefficient.
Power Booster is amazingly helpful...and I don't know how to even describe how great it is... I mean, it could give people erections.
Don't get me wrong, I can see the usefulness of teleport, but it's only good if the opponent has limited range abilities, the terrain is beneficial to you, or something else along these lines, these are far too variable variables to consider it more beneficial than to camping. What do you need teleporting for? Do you advance, spell, then port back? What are you arc nodes doing? Etc... those are kind of the questions it makes me ask. Certainly there are answers, but I just don't see them as a regular thing with him.

If you need 2 focus on jacks, you are running too many

Being able to juggle Scything Touch and Parasite a second heavy is brilliant, though, and frees Asphyxious up positionally.

This is the selling point... the only problem is, you are relying on unrelyable things to DELIVER the Skarlock. It is quite vulnerable until you can commit it if you are using it offensively.
Now, as a Scything Touch dispenser, it's OK, just not as amazing with other casters and is indeed 2 points which can be something else with no love lost.

[Drzombieface]

My standard pGaspy list for 35 is:

Asphyxious
-Skarlock
-Cankerworm (Solo hunting, dealing with flanks, late game support damage)
-Deathripper (Arc Node, medium toughness model killer)
-Seether (Brawler)

-Mechanithralls x10 (Tarpit, heavy killer
-Necrosurgeon (Support)
-Bane Thralls x6 (heavy killers)
-Bane Thrall UA (added durability)

-Tartarus (Duh)
-Gorma di Wulfe (support, infantry clear, debuffs)

It's worked extremely well, everything has its job and runs smoothly together.

[Sanctjud]

One arc node?, Doooooooooom!

[Bittersashes]

I realize this is from your experience, but I must say that your play style is only one of many ways to play pGaspy. It is not the 'only' way and honestly, I think it's inefficient.

That's funny - I don't remember saying it's the only way to play. I said this is my experience. That's what the words 'in my experience' at the start were for... You are welcome to your opinion, but that doesn't mean it magically ties into what I've seen.

Power Booster is amazingly helpful...and I don't know how to even describe how great it is... I mean, it could give people erections.

I find Power Booster is good for maneouvering, and not that great otherwise. Melee jacks tend to need more than one focus to do the job, but it's good for things like the Reaper. Tell you what, why don't you go and find a good description and try and convince me?

Don't get me wrong, I can see the usefulness of teleport, but it's only good if the opponent has limited range abilities, the terrain is beneficial to you, or something else along these lines, these are far too variable variables to consider it more beneficial than to camping. What do you need teleporting for? Do you advance, spell, then port back? What are you arc nodes doing? Etc... those are kind of the questions it makes me ask. Certainly there are answers, but I just don't see them as a regular thing with him.

You either stay back far enough (in which case the layout of the terrain doesn't matter) or you bring something to hide behind (jacks, medium bases, etc). Gaspy gets better as the field thins out and has arc nodes, so there is no need to force him into the action early. I leave him at the back to counterattack, as he can hang 11" off the front line and still wreck heavy targets in melee if they commit.

If you need 2 focus on jacks, you are running too many

Now, that is definitely your opinion. I actually use jacks to do more work than just lug an arc node round, and even arc nodes need 2 for a slam if you want them to actually hit.

This is the selling point... the only problem is, you are relying on unrelyable things to DELIVER the Skarlock. It is quite vulnerable until you can commit it if you are using it offensively.

Again, I don't remember saying how I would commit it. In the late game, I use it to drop an offensive spell and accept it will die. At that point, if it lets me take a heavy out, job done.

Now, as a Scything Touch dispenser, it's OK, just not as amazing with other casters and is indeed 2 points which can be something else with no love lost.

I don't take stuff based on whether another caster could run it better. I take it based on whether it does the job I want doing for the caster I am using.

[Sanctjud]

/shrug, when you say "Gaspy relies more on..." that to me says that that is the primary way you play it, hence my calling it " 'only' ". (not "only".)
Teleporting is a spell that I find and have seen used very rarely, you just don't get into situations that require its use.

Power Boosting: saves Gaspy 1 focus to run...that 1 focus can be used to boost something, could be what is needed to cast one more cost 3 or cost 2 spell, it can be used in another jack, it can be used to camp, used to shake something, etc.
Not oly is it power boosting, you undisrupt it... so you don't have to fear sending the arc node near Stormsmiths/Eiyrss and the like.
This is before all the utility she brings to the list. She brings shadowbind, something that debuffs DEF which pGaspy welcomes with open arms.

Your responce to my questioning of Teleporting doesn't answer the question. What is teleporting doing for you that Gaspy "RELIES" on it?

As for my comment of too many jacks, it was a joke, hence the emo-con at the end.
As for comparing to other casters, you are right, it is an unfair comparison, but what I'm trying to say is there is an opportunity cost with the skarlock; the weight of utility of scything cycling and end game offensive spells are heavier for you.
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Back on somewhat topic: Skarlock does not trump the Siren, the Siren Directly helps pGaspy's main end game, and to me, that is more important than general army support. You could take both, but that cuts into the massive budget spent on units

[Bittersashes]

/shrug, when you say "Gaspy relies more on..." that to me says that that is the primary way you play it, hence my calling it " 'only' ". (not "only".)
Teleporting is a spell that I find and have seen used very rarely, you just don't get into situations that require its use.

But I do get into situations where I require to use it, all the time. Especially in games where I don't have many medium bases or larger on my side.

Your responce to my questioning of Teleporting doesn't answer the question. What is teleporting doing for you that Gaspy "RELIES" on it?

It lets Gaspy act and be safe from reprisals in the aftermath. Is this really such a hard concept to grasp?

Back on somewhat topic: Skarlock does not trump the Siren, the Siren Directly helps pGaspy's main end game, and to me, that is more important than general army support. You could take both, but that cuts into the massive budget spent on units

You are speaking for yourself here, so lay off the absolutes.

I find the Siren doesn't help my end game much - Sustained Attack means the -3 DEF is wasted after the first swing from Asphyxious in melee and only nets the lich +1 to hit on spells if the Siren is engaged in melee. Dumping Scything Touch on Asphyxious or Parasite on the enemy caster via Skarlock is direct help for the end game and works out better for me.

My Siren and Skarlock have been on the painting table together for over a month. I miss the Skarlock much, much more than I miss the Siren.

[Sanctjud]

"get into situations" =/= "relies" in my book.
How about an example of using teleport?
Are you charging something then teleporting out?
Are you moving up and spelling something then teleporting out?

The latter should not be happening often as you have arc nodes, while the former just depends on how much you want a soul and what the opponent offers him.

It's not so much 'Grasp', you just don't put him in the situation to be in 'reprisals' range... you have arc nodes. The only issue I can think of which requires him further up front is that you are charging him into combat, or all of your arc nodes are dead, engaged, shutdown (which is a "shame on you").
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Again, emo-cons... abusolutes come out in full force when joking is involved.

By you mentioning Sustained Assault means you are talking about pGaspy specifically, I'm talking about things Holistically. pGaspy DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE a DEF debuff, and the inclusion of that from the Siren (though I'm not saying that is her primary purpose) is useful to the entire army.
I do NOT assume Gaspy Stir Stick as his primary assassination, it is far to telegraphed and predictable to be a primary method of victory, spell assassiantion and army support are the primary win conditions....unless the opponent is just offering his caster to Gaspy's charge...which is a whole other issue.
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@Corbeau: Basically, the Pistol Wraiths are where the suporrt optiosn like SIren,Captain,Dougal would come in. You have noted that you 'have' to have them, so that is the opportunity cost I feel. The cost is the utility of a heavy stalling/sniper pieces vs. the Force Multiplying support pieces.

[Bittersashes]

"get into situations" =/= "relies" in my book.
How about an example of using teleport?
Are you charging something then teleporting out?
Are you moving up and spelling something then teleporting out?

The latter should not be happening often as you have arc nodes, while the former just depends on how much you want a soul and what the opponent offers him.

When it works at its best - bait Molik Karn into a bad charge, charge with Asphyxious, beat on Molik, Feat and wipe a couple of paingivers for a bonus, kill Molik (he really hates sustained attack), teleport back out of reprisal range whilst the opponants Gladiator sits there and looks glum.

I don't charge Asphyxious in for the odd soul - I charge him in because he can do crippling damage to a beast or jack and then get out of the way via teleport to allow other models to finish the job. Walking, casting then teleporting happens quite a lot in early game, as I don't want to waste my arc node positioning to get buffs up and I don't care about camping against most opposition.

It's not so much 'Grasp', you just don't put him in the situation to be in 'reprisals' range... you have arc nodes. The only issue I can think of which requires him further up front is that you are charging him into combat, or all of your arc nodes are dead, engaged, shutdown (which is a "shame on you").

If you don't charge Asphyxious in, or at least threaten with his melee, in my opinion you are wasting a lot of his potential. Melee is a far better Focus to Damage conversion than casting spells.

By you mentioning Sustained Assault means you are talking about pGaspy specifically, I'm talking about things Holistically. pGaspy DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE a DEF debuff, and the inclusion of that from the Siren (though I'm not saying that is her primary purpose) is useful to the entire army.

The Siren has a MAT of 5 and can't boost. The only use I use its melee for outside of Hail Mary shots for it is locking up a low DEF target. It can't hit reliably things that need debuffing and anything it can hit reliably don't need debuffing.

I do NOT assume Gaspy Stir Stick as his primary assassination, it is far to telegraphed and predictable to be a primary method of victory, spell assassiantion and army support are the primary win conditions....unless the opponent is just offering his caster to Gaspy's charge...which is a whole other issue.

I use a two stage process. If my opponent is careless and exposes his caster, I'll blow him away with spells. Plan B (and many of my opponents can counter Plan A - there is a lot of anti-magic and big guns in my meta) is to pull the enemy army apart until I get the chance to go for the kill. That often involves melee and the tipping point is frequently Asphyxious charging into melee with a key target and feating if needs be to kill it, then teleporting away.

[Sanctjud]

Molik committing and ending up in pGaspy charge range when he has access to fatewalk or sprint?
That's like a dream come true

[Bittersashes]

Molik committing and ending up in pGaspy charge range when he has access to fatewalk or sprint?
That's like a dream come true

My opponent ended up using both sidesteps and finding he couldn't quite navigate through the infantry screen around Asphyxious. There was no way for him to withdraw Molik far enough, even with Fate Walker, as he couldn't go in a straight line away from the caster due to other troopers.

Also, with a bit of judicious substitution:

Asphyxious committing and ending up in Moliks charge range when he has access to Teleport?

Same tactic I referred to, really.

[Sanctjud]

Easy, don't commit pGaspy into Molik Threat Range and do army support via arc nodes/spell slinging/cycling.
pGaspy is pretty flexible that you can switch up your game to be easier and with less risk with focus used more offensively/defensively. You can use teleport defensively, but it's easier to just not put yourself in a situation (rare IMO) that you need to...is what I'm saying.

All I'm saying is, you do not need to put yourself in that kind of situation, hence why I am responding to the 'relies' portion.

Of course there are plenty of play styles and my pool of players is restricted only to Vassal and a few gaming groups in the New England Area, but I've never seen a pGaspy player, 'relies' on teleport. Now, as said, my pool of experience is quite limited in the scope of playstyles in the world, but it's just wierd to see that pGaspy 'relies' on teleport. /shrug.

I will agree to disagree, teleport has its uses, but I just don't think it comes up very often.