Tips with the battle box

[Etheric]

Four of us just picked up boxes and had our second night of learning experiences. We have a Skorne, a Circle, a Cryx and a Retribution player (me). My friend the Cryx player is having a hard time seeing the usefulness of his force. He's lost once to Skorne because that player learned slam rules first. Won against me once, after I had crippled all his jacks but poorly positioned my caster, then lost to me twice more.

I tried telling him pDeneghra is a bad matchup against Kaelyssa, the anti-magic caster, but he looks at his list and just doesn't see its effectiveness. 3 arc nodes, but only one killer. Tons of debuffs, but not anyone to take advantage of them. 4 jacks, but only 7 focus to divide between them and debuffing. Not enough ranged attacks or speed to initiate (at least compared to Ret).

Any tips I can give him before he gets frustrated and switches to Legion? I tried telling him to just move to 15 points vs me, or to start learning the terrain/objective rules, but we're still rocky enough on the basic rules that he legitimately believes that we need to get in more battle box games.

p.s. How does her feat work? Is the debuff a pulse that lasts for one round (meaning if she moves back, or I move back, the model is still affected), or is it an aura that lasts for one round (meaning if she moves up or I move up, a model will come under the effect)?

[philipcryx]

well Honestly Cryx Battle Box is terrible LOL...well probably not true but i find you need to add a unit to become competitive, Banes/MCthrall+surgeon..does not matter. The Slayer is actually quite good if you dont mind using one turn to nuke a jack, Crippling graps, parasite upkeeps then load 3 focus and see that jack burn..Her feat is awesome because its offensive/defensive any thing that does not die the feat turn will not...i say CAN NOT kill you..The most important thing is tell him to have fun, if he is not having fun with Cryx...switch it but, i went from Khador to Cryx and i think the Khador will have a heavy coat of dust on them before i bring them out again.

[Corrugatedgator]

I just picked up cryx and have been having alot of battle box games the last few weeks. I believe it says "models currently in", not "while in". If so that would be a pulse. Her feat can be devastating, especially when combined with either crippling grasp( combined -4 to Def and Armor) or Parasite (-2 Def and -5 armor) depending on if you need the extra defense debuff. The key in these small battle box games is trying to use your three arc nodes to get a vector on the enemy caster for spell assassination or a full focus slayer with ghostly. If you have to trade a bonejack to get either debuff on the enemy caster early it is worth it. Next turn pop feat and with the up keep you should 6 focus to burn on one sad caster. If a warlock is camping fury it could be a bit hard with all those transfers, which leads to the next thing I did during battle box games.

The feat can be used to blunt the enemy. Cryx jacks have pretty good defense, even if the armor is low. If during feat turn you can scrap a heavy and maybe damage the rest of his battlegroup it can payoff even if your a sitting duck. During the enemies activation they are still affected by the -2 to every stat by FURY, meaning its harder to hit, and melee attacks and thrown weapons based off Str are weaker. The slayer will be sitting at effective def 15, the bonejacks at def 17, and Denny at def 18. Hope that helps your friend

As philipcryx says it gets much better with some units, and more targets to debuff and spray with venom.

[Caanos]

Almost every jack in the battlebox can be a killer. With 3 focus, a deathripper can hit 3 times (2 auto hits due to sustained attack) at P&S 17-18. The Nightwretch can throw out a pow 18-19 shot on feat turn. And that's not including the Slayer with Combo Strike. We have the speed to get to exactly where we want and that helps with positioning our arc nodes to blast something. And yes, Denny is a bit greedy with the focus, but she's typically not run with so many jacks; and she usually has a skarlock and warwitch siren to help with the focus.

As for helping him find ways to win, it helps to remember that Denny is mostly an assassination caster. Find a way to get something in the enemy's face, feat and debuff, and take the strike. Or if you're confident you can hit with hit, Scourge the enemy caster for knockdown. As for her feat, because it says "currently within" it checks what models are in range when the feat is used and they are affected. It doesn't matter if Denny or an enemy models out of range after that fact, it's still affected by the feat.

[Drzombieface]

The Cryx battlebox is not terrible. Kaelyssa is a bad matchup for any squishy caster. He needs to practice positioning, threat lanes, and kill vectors. If he can't get in close, there's easy ways to bait enemies into your own force, and beat them to death with debuffs and spellslinging, followed by a Slayer having fun ripping something apart. I had to face the Ret "Battlebox" in a BB tourney a long time ago, granted I've been playing for years, but it wasn't that hard to deal with, especially once Crippling Grasp got thrown on my opponent's Heavy. CG stayed there, and the jack became hilariously useless.

Denny can excel at dealing with multiple threats at once, especially once the foremost threat has been dealt with by Crip. Grasp. Scourge can take care of DEF issues, and the Slayer can remove said issue from the table.

Also, he needs to learn when to use his feat assertively or reactively. An agressive feat turn is his army has moved up the board the previous turn(s), and is in position to strike. CG and Parasite on different targets, coupled with her Feat, can practically neuter your opponent for your strike and their retaliation.

[BakerGaspy]

What a lot of people don't realize when they first start is any SPD decrease disallows a model from charging... if he can turn one run a deathripper up and CG the melee heavy, Parasite the other target he wants to kill he has set himself up for a good second round.

[gregoire]

The feat is a pulse.

The BG is awesome in BG format. 3 arc nodes and a heavy hitter, all very quick.

Yes Kaelyssa is a bad matchup.

[Vermithrax]

If his group lets him he could switch to pGaspy. New players often do better with him when learning the game. Denny is one of our top casters but she's got a learning curve. It's because she debuffs and plays a support role.

As a new player you have to learn what the other player can do so you can apply debuffs and provide support in the best spot.

Gaspy is a bit more direct and would let your friend focus on the game mechanics more.

Legion is also cool...

[Deo85]

I second Vermithrax I lost several games learning the ins and outs of where Denny wants to play on the field and also how to spread my forces out to get to the caster in the back of the army. Her stealth is a huge plus to letting you hang her out there as well as being a smaller base.

The Defiler (Not Nightwretch Cannos) for all intensive purposes is useless till you start running agent's infantry. So I tend to use this as my throw away arc node for a early Parasite / Crippling Grasp shot. As said on round one you SHOULD have CG on the biggest / baddest Jack on the other side. The bigger ones in other factions tend to sit at speed 4 which puts them to speed 2 and useless

Deathrippers (Still my most favorit arc nodes to this day) I used to to flank the army coming at me and placed the slayer middle to react or alpha either side of the field. Honestly either use Denny feat to prep your self for a next turn alpha strike or use it to set up your finishing blow.

I recommend NOT trying to spell assassinate with Denny as most casters sport 15 box of health and you tend to have to spend 5 focus to knock them down by either running your arc node in or boosting to hit. (pro tip - 4" away from target will always hit a small base model with a 3" aoe)

I have tried multiple times to assassinate with just Denny focus pool and the set up costs to much to be honest. You feat and knock the caster lets say 14 ARM from the -2 feat and you got enough for a Venom which hits at POW 10. Unless if you roll box cars repeatedly you will not kill the caster most the time. Now instead if I KD a caster and bring in a Deathripper with 2 focus I tend to always kill the caster (3 x POW 13 attacks + the POW 13 KD Spell) or a slayer if you can get him in there.

Conclusion - The battle box is not horrible but it is miss leading as Denny is not rly great at supporting jacks AND casting her spells in the same turn so its a trade off. You got to play more like a chess player and have useful activations then throw away models. If allowed I would agree that pGaspy is a lot easier to learn the only thing I don't like about him is he has no way to help you deal with high DEF targets but that's why you play BB games where its all jacks so you can always boost to hit.

[Etheric]

I like a lot of what you guys are saying about sacrificial models and chess. I think he looks at his three arc nodes and wonders why three? How could he possibly use three? Instead of looking at the three and saying, if I have to I can throw one, even two away!

Plus he keeps matching up against me with Kaelyssa who can just remove his upkeep spells or shield a jack pre-emptively. He'll hopefully have more luck against Skorne or Circle, but the advice you're giving about keeping debuffs on me just doesn't work. And using two debuffs both takes a lot of focus, and is not even reliable, since Witch Hunter will probably let me engage or at least shoot whatever jack he's arcing through.

[Sheer_Falacy]

I like a lot of what you guys are saying about sacrificial models and chess. I think he looks at his three arc nodes and wonders why three? How could he possibly use three? Instead of looking at the three and saying, if I have to I can throw one, even two away!

Plus he keeps matching up against me with Kaelyssa who can just remove his upkeep spells or shield a jack pre-emptively. He'll hopefully have more luck against Skorne or Circle, but the advice you're giving about keeping debuffs on me just doesn't work. And using two debuffs both takes a lot of focus, and is not even reliable, since Witch Hunter will probably let me engage or at least shoot whatever jack he's arcing through.

That's because Kaelyssa vs prime Deneghra, in mangled metal, is a terrible matchup for Deneghra. He has nothing but offensive spells, but Witch Hound means they hurt him almost as much as they hurt you and banishing ward means they don't stick. So he has his feat, which is great, but it's not enough. It'd be better if it weren't mangled metal, but even then Kaelyssa is the rock to Deneghra's scissors in a lot of ways.

[Gamingdevil]

Some excellent advice has already been given. Most notable is that Cryx is a spell casting faction, meaning that:
1) anti-magic armies such as Kaelyssa or even Menoth or Circle as a whole are generally bad matchups.
2) Many of our casters can't, or at least don't like to, run jacks effectively. Slinging (de)buffs or even spell assassinations is their specialty. All the while (most of) our infantry is excellent and can tear most anything in the game apart, especially with the right debuffs and Denny is the undisputed Queen of Debuffs.

The composition of our battle box is really the best they could do for Denny while still keeping the entry-game as simple as possible. But Slayers are rarely, if ever, played outside a Mortenebra list and almost no one takes a Defiler, preferring to take the 4-point node options in favor of more infantry.
Once you start mixing in infantry he will do a lot better (although Denny still has a high learning curve), swapping in Asphyxious instead of Deneghra should also make it slight easier, especially since Gaspy can easily mess up anything your opponent has to offer, by himself. (14 total focus if needed and Sustained Attack at P+S 15)

[The Jake]

It did take me a few games to get used to the Cryx box because pDenny has trouble supporting that many jacks, but she is a powerhouse against other battleboxes. I typically spread out my nodes with the Defiler in the middle and the Deathrippers up the sides running them at my opponent with the Slayer going up the center with pDenny behind. This forces him to choose which side to commit to, and you react from the other. Feat to either lock down your opponent for a turn or to move in for the kill. The Deathrippers with sustained attack can wreck many things. Just realize that pDenny's debuffs/feat make the rest of the jacks into monsters.

[ChaosPhantom104]

Something else I've found in terms of our bonechickens in general is they work best in a "swarm". I once took out a Protectorate crusader with just two nightwretchs and a siren(awesome damage rolls boosted, but hey. It still happened). So if he's sending in his deathrippers one on one, he's not only wasting precious arc nodes but he's also wasting precious focus. In their fluff, it talks about how the Cryxians send in 'swarms of skittering bonejacks' and all that.. Tell him to play them like that. I think everyone else has said just about everything.. oh! Ghostwalk! It's a fantastic way to get an arc node out of melee for channeling or walking a slayer through a building or forest right into the opponent's poorly place caster, among numerous other things.