Long range Protectorate 35pts.

[Leonid112]

Hi, not long ago I've learned about using pKreoss with 2 Redeemrs, so I decided to evaluate a little bit.
So:
pKreoss (+5)
Redeemer(6)
Redeemer(6)
2xVassals (4)
Zealots full with Monolith (8)
Deliverers full (8)
Crusader(6)
Choir small (2)
tatal: 35pts/
What will you say?

[Taipan]

Kreoss is an excellent choice, knockdown makes it stupidly easy to hit with everything

Redeemers...my feeling is you could drop something else out (odd man out Crusader, downgrade the Deliverers or Zealots to smaller squad) and upgrade to Vanquishers. They're tougher, can Thresh infantry that try to tie them up (a problem for lights, as you also risk dying to the better infantry in the game), and they have Flame AOE by default. They are slower, but they don't even need focus often times (if you're nuking infantry after Kreoss's feat), at most 1 or 2 (boosted damage+Battle Hymn makes even their blast damage utterly lethal). Khador can and will throw down multiple heavy jacks at this point level, Cyngar has some nasty heavies as well. Vanquishers aren't quite as competent in melee, but they're not as vulnerables as a Redeemer.

2 Vassal is understandable, you're trying to maximise ranged output. Again, if you upgrade to Vanquishers, the power of the shots goes up (although I think only the first shot is able to be focus boosted, IIRC, but both will be affected by the Battle Hymn). Enliven also solves the mid-range of the Vanquisher, getting them into position earlier than your opponent might expect.

Zealots+Monolith is always hilarious. In a shooty list I would've opted for Errants, but these guys can be equally annoying and dangerous.

Deliverers...I'm not a fan, but they do suit your shooty theme. Again, I would take Errants instead, as they can do close-combat as well (which is what a lot of battles turn into in the end). On the other hand, depending on your local meta, they will cause a fair few casualties to infantry-heavy lists. Kinda awful against jacks or beasts though, but eh, so are Errant crossbows.

Crusader seems a bit out of place. Don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic beatstick, but you're going for ranged damage. Reckoner maybe? His gun can get decent with boosting, and he hits almost as hard in melee whilst bringing a few decent debuffs to the enemy.

Pretty solid overall though. I just dislike stuff like Deliverers, and I kinda favour Zealots with Vindictus/ToM/High Reclaimer (where army death just powers up your caster more).

[Leonid112]

I can see what you mean, and yes i dislike deliverers too, and I do prefer Errants. The other list I'm thinking about is Vindictus tier 2
The great advantage of Redeemers is their range 16, so it is possible on a feat turn to kill a warcaster, and the Vanquisher (my favorite jack too) lacks range because you need a direct hit ti kill a caster. Another problem of Vanquisher that it has too big AOE when it comes to close fight, I'll hit my troops
And one more if I'm taking Vanq. ,zealots - what to do with them,hey just ran forward - mini feat - bombs away, so now they are close to enemy this way Vanqs are useless.

[Lanz]

8 POW 14s with a 21" threat range > 4 POW 16s with a 14" threat range when the target is knocked down. Inaccurate is the only thing that keeps Redeemers from making a joke out of Ravagores and Defenders. When you're rolling against DEF 5, RAT 3 hits on anything but double 1s, so that's just peachy. When the accuracy comes out of the equation, the sheer volumes behind Redeemers generally outclasses the competition.

So, no, I don't think the redeemers should be turned into vanquishers. I think the OP is on to the right idea.

I would, however, consider upgrading the crusader to a Reckoner. You keep your beatstick, but it's adding another shot too, with an accuracy buff to boot for the turns outside of the feat. Choir buffs + Flare pretty much cancels out Inaccurate.

I don't really know what you plan to do with the Zealots. They'll generally get in the way of your own forces, and don't have very impressive range. They're forced to nearly engagement range in order to be effective, and that doesn't seem to be where you want your emphasis. I'd say either drop them entirely and not bother with a screen (as you're generally decimating from range and pack a lot of AoEs, so even stealth lists aren't safe from your shots), or take Flameguard instead, who have Ranked Attacks, letting you shoot through them without them getting in the way. The flameguard will be the better screen anyways.

Though, it depends on how you use the zealots. If you minifeat and hustle them into the enemy, let the zealots hold the enemy back while you barrage them, then feat at the start of the next turn so that the zealots aren't engaged and can back off then throw bombs, I'd expect that would pretty much wipe out anything that's infront of them. There isn't much infantry that will survive an entire zealot squad tossing firebombs and hitting almost automatically. So on second thought, zealots aren't bad. It depends on what your plan is. Using them like I just said would demand a very good sense of battle flow. You'd have to pop the mini feat just at the right time to get the best out of it, then you basically have to follow up with the feat next turn, otherwise the zealots are going to be stuck in melee, which is not their forte.

I don't think the deliverers need to be a full unit. Generally I find min unit is best bang-for-the-buck. You get the full volley out of them, but they still have enough AoEs to suppress the enemy infantry, but not so many that you're taking forever to resolve their activation. That aside, changes like turning the Crusader into a Reckoner will demand some spare points, and I think cutting down the deliverers is the first place you want to look.

So my recommended changes;
-change Zealots to Flameguard unless you have a solid plan how you want to use the zealots.
-drop the deliverers down to min unit and upgrade the crusader to a Reckoner.
-use the spare point on whatever. Kreoss casts enough spells to justify wracks, but a mechanik is also good with ranged 'jacks, as they aren't as likely to be scrapped in one round, and they aren't as hard for him to keep up with.

Overall, you might run into trouble against extreme armor. Boosted Redeemer shots can put dents in armor, but not a lot, and a lone Reckoner won't deal with many heavies alone. You've got the Deliverer volley as well, and zealots lobbing pow14s might do something, but overall you'll potentially run into problems facing down 3+ heavies of decent endurance. Consider going for assassination runs against such match-ups (in which case the redeemers are doubly-valuable for their assassination prowess).

[Leonid112]

hmmmm....
pKreos
Redeemer 6
Redeemer 6
2x Vassals 4
Choir (min) 2
TFG(min) + Attachment 6
Reconer 8

total 27pts so far 8pts left
deliverers -?
exemplars - ?
Cleansers - ?
Vanquisher - ??

[Okudave]

With that new list, having 3 jack would be enough specially since the redeemer might be focus hungry every round starting the second. I liked you zealots +UA more than the TFG as a tarpit. I would add errants + UA and/or senny to fill the rest.

It would look like that:

High Exemplar Kreoss* +5 points
* Reckoner* 8 points
* 2x Redeemer* 6 points each

4 Choir of Menoth* 2 points
Exemplar Errant Seneschal* 2 points
6 Exemplar Errants* 5 points
6 Holy Zealots* 4 points
* Monolith Bearer* 2 points
2x Vassal of Menoth* 2 points each
3 Wracks* 1 point
Total: 35 points

[Leonid112]

I would prefer errants attachment rather then Seneshal, Lieutenant has almost the same rat/mat plus all of them get spell protection, but in games with khador I'll take seny. Sadly I do not have Wracks so it will be a mechanic near the Reconer.
Ans as I understand I should not run forward with Zealots the first turn.