New Hordes Player - Is this the place for me?

[raizieldragon]

I've played some Warmachine (Cygnar) and am looking at branching out into Khador as well as a Hordes faction, to try them out.

I've discovered that I like 'jacks/'beasts more than I like infantry, and am trying to find out what faction I should use.

From what little I've read, I think Trollbloods are what I want, so figured I'd ask the very people who would know.

I want a Warlock that can handle an all 'beast army, or with very little infantry if a certain unit is considered a must-have, melee-oriented army, and very tough to take down.

I know trolls are tough to take down (between Tough, Regeneration, and Snacking), but are they pretty good at beating face in melee? From what I've seen, the answer is yes.

So the only other question I have is what Warlock should I go with if I'm mainly interested in running Dire Trolls, Mulk, Rok, etc? What units/solos are considered must-haves for a Troll army, if any?

[hackdZ]

Two words - Epic Doomshaper.

If you're really keen on the Dire Trolls, go with eDoomie. Since he can cast the animus of a Dire Troll in his battlegroup without spending fury once per turn. On top of that, his feat makes all our Dire's run REALLY fast and they can Charge, Slam or Trample without being forced.

His spells are also pretty darn good, Primal shock & Wild Aggression are both awesome. And when you start throwing the Maulers Animus around with Primal shock, things get scary...

On a completely unrelated note, welcome to the Trolls

[omerplata]

As a whole I would say that trolls do the worst with beast heavy lists. Our warlocks and support for the most part are infantry heavy oriented. Other factions (Skorne comes to mind) do beast heavy better. We also have the worst fury management support (whelps), and lowest fury among warlocks. That being said a couple of our locks can run lots of dire trolls very well.

As mentioned eDoomie is a great choice. And his prime version is not bad either. Grim is another warlock worth looking into. With bait the line he can bullet our heavies across the table at whatever he hits. He can knockdown or lower the defense of those high defense models. He also has cross country which is lots of fun when upkept on a bomber that is camped behind some forest.

Don't let the negatives steer you away from trolls, we put axe to mouth better than any faction, it's just usually in the form of hordes of tough little blue dudes backed by 1 or 2 beasts.

[PG_thegreatblah]

And when you start throwing the Maulers Animus around with Primal shock, things get scary...

This is false, Primal Shock is unaffected by the Mauler's animus.


EDoomshaper with a mass of dire Trolls is a lot of fun and have been my most fun lists to play. It has some bad matchups, but with one solo (Janissa) you can make pretty solid lists at 35 points.

[raizieldragon]

I like his tier list for higher cost armies, so that all the 'beasts cost less, and he can bring a bunch of whelps along to help mitigate damage and Fury. I would grab a couple squads of Trollkin Scouts, just to meet the tier requirements. Toss in Runebearer, and spend the rest of the points on Dire Trolls; Mulg, a few Earthborns. Is it worth it to bring some Bombers/Blitzers for some ranged options, or just go all melee and charge the whole line of 'beasts up into melee? Also, I've seen it said that the Earthborns are very good along with Mulg and eDoomie, but I've never seen anyone mention that Mulgs stick is a good option for the Earthborns adaptation ability. Is it just because there's almost always a better option in the opposing army?

For lower points, where it's not worth it to spend points on the Scouts and stick to the tier list, I like Krielstone Bearer + Stone Scribe Elder and Janissa. I kind of miss the mass of Whelps that can be brought along, but it saves points for more Dire Trolls that helps make up for not getting the 1 point reduction on their cost.

Some questions:

1) What's a good number of Whelps to bring; like a ratio of Whelps to Dire Trolls?

2) What are some good 'beasts to bring with eDoomie? I've read the tactica for him, and see that Mulg, Earthborns, and Axers are the main force options, but are some of the ranged options good to include, or is it better to save points for melee 'beasts and stick to the pure axe-to-face strategy?

3) How does his tier list compare to an open one that allows you to bring Krielstone Bearer's, Stone Scribe Elder, and Janissa?

[PG_petegrrrr]

If you want to play factions that can be fun AND competitive with MULTIPLE almost all beast lists, you want Legion, and maybe skorne.

We have good beasts, but our best lists are all about synergy and balance, so in all honesty, you probably don't want to play trollbloods first if you want to run a lot of beast exclusive lists.

Legion on the other hand run almost nothing but beasts in every single list, and they do very well with it.

[Beckman]

If you want to play factions that can be fun AND competitive with MULTIPLE almost all beast lists, you want Legion, and maybe skorne.

Sigh. So true.

I wish that I could run all beasts with Trolls... it is rather gimicky when it works. And it works so much better with a tarpit or two.

[Scottl1]

Funny in the troll forum someone says beast heavy they toss legion out but no one reads the entire part where he says hard to take down. lol An axer can kill a loe heavy lol Never seen a loe light kill a troll heavy. lol Though from what the poster said of a tough hard to kill beast army skorne can do that pretty well with a few of its casters. So hard to take down beast heavy army is trolls or skorne NOT loe.

[PG_somnicide]

Yeah, you can play all beast with a few different casters in Trollbloods and still win, but that is the strength of Hordes vs. Warmachine rather than a particular strength of trollbloods. Our strength is in our diversity.

So yeah, you can play and compete and have fun, but with the exception of eDoomie, some Gunny builds, pmadrak beast brick and some calandra beast bricks (and those last 2 run better with at least 2 "support" options in the form of Janissa and the Krielstone) you are intentionally hamstringing yourself so just be aware of that.

[raizieldragon]

I'm not a tournament player, so I'm ok with it not being extremely competitive. Just fun against friends. Also, I like how tough Trolls are compared to Legion. Regeneration/Tough/Snacking are very handy for keeping a 'beast army going long past its expiration date, and Whelps look like they help a lot as well.

I like the look and flavor of Trolls more too. I normally like dragons, but Legion is pretty ugly, and Skorne isn't too much better (though some of their heavies look pretty cool).

[PG_thegreatblah]

I bought Trolls back in the day based solely on how they look and haven't regretted it a day.

[raizieldragon]

I don't mind some support solos. As I've been reading up on Hordes, I've noticed that they like ways to manage Fury just like Warmachine likes ways to give out extra Focus ('jack marshals, Junior Warcaster, etc.)

I just get tired of hearing Cygnar and Khador players talking about how they are infantry factions. I like WarmaHordes for the big stuff. I like Cygnar Defenders firing their huge cannons across the battlefield, and I like bricks of Khador heavies stomping across the field and cutting stuff in half with axes. It doesn't make sense to me that a couple of 'jacks with 10-20 soldiers is better than 3 or 4 'jacks. Those extra 1 or 2 'jacks should be able to stomp all over those infantry in their neat little rows.

So I'm looking for an army to do just that. I chose Khador to do it with Warmachine and I'm pretty much decided on Trolls to do it for Hordes. Khador has armor to survive the slow, arduous trek across the battlefield and Trolls have Tough/Regeneration to get there and then Snacking to keep them going.

So, eDoomie with Krielstone, Janissa, and Runebearer as support, some Whelps for your 'beasts to snack on, and the rest as Dire Trolls (start with Mulg, an Earthborn, an Axer, and then go from there). Is that an acceptable, 'beast heavy list?

[tallted]

Ive been running Grim with two heavies, two lights and max fenns plus ua and have been having alot of success.

[PG_petegrrrr]

Funny in the troll forum someone says beast heavy they toss legion out but no one reads the entire part where he says hard to take down. lol An axer can kill a loe heavy lol Never seen a loe light kill a troll heavy. lol Though from what the poster said of a tough hard to kill beast army skorne can do that pretty well with a few of its casters. So hard to take down beast heavy army is trolls or skorne NOT loe.

FYI, even with a free charge, and buying 3 attacks, he would basically have to roll all box cars to kill a legion heavy, hitting at at least dice minus 4. It's incredibly unlikely barring some massive investment of buffs, in which case the buffs and dice killed you, and the axer just happened to be in the vicinity.

Especially since with tenacity or spiny growth or typhon's wonky healing, your beasts are actually a bit harder to kill.

As for that eDoomy list, it really needs a melee unit to keep other armies from getting on you to fast. If they have speed feats or movement tricks of their own, they can engage you before you ever get your feat off, basically ruining a huge chunk of eDoomy's feat.

You can run beast heavy in trollbloods and do all right, but if you try to run all beast and no real units, you are going to have some major issues that may frustrate you.

[Troll Of Minions]

Troll Of Minions says yes

[Scottl1]

FYI, even with a free charge, and buying 3 attacks, he would basically have to roll all box cars to kill a legion heavy, hitting at at least dice minus 4. It's incredibly unlikely barring some massive investment of buffs, in which case the buffs and dice killed you, and the axer just happened to be in the vicinity.

Especially since with tenacity or spiny growth or typhon's wonky healing, your beasts are actually a bit harder to kill.

As for that eDoomy list, it really needs a melee unit to keep other armies from getting on you to fast. If they have speed feats or movement tricks of their own, they can engage you before you ever get your feat off, basically ruining a huge chunk of eDoomy's feat.

You can run beast heavy in trollbloods and do all right, but if you try to run all beast and no real units, you are going to have some major issues that may frustrate you.

So you'll include tenacity etc but not troll buffs? Also that doesnt change the fact that an axer can kill a loe but a raek will not kill a troll heavy.