Matching Casters to Scenarios

[thebill77718]

So, as we have all probably read already, Rolling_Thunder won the Mayhem Cup playing Cygnar (Congrats, Ben!). As I was reading the thread, I came across this quote from him:

I honestly believe that a cygnar list tailored for a circumstance just does it better than everyone else. Don't tailor for match-ups, you can't control those. Tailor for types of scenarios. Those WILL be there

That got me to thinking, which of our casters - and for that matter solos and units (but mostly casters) - have a toolbox that works particularly well for a specific SR'12 scenario? Look at it from the point of view of the 'caster/unit/solo (ehaley works for X and Y, but not Z because...), or from the point of view of the scenario (Scenario X works well with Caster1, Caster 2 because...).

I think this could be a great tool, especially for total SR noobs who would really like to get into tournaments but feel so rediculously far behind the curve.

Thanks for your responses!

[VagrantPoet]

Its definitely a good idea. But most scenario zones can't be held without killing dudes. I think there needs to be a balance.

And you need lists that don't auto-lose to cruddy tricks. Like Ravyn, who a lot of our casters are susceptiple to.

[VagrantPoet]

Double-Post.

[eKraye]

Pirates with eHaley worked incredibly well.. That was my main scenario point scoring list.. Gunmages to push jacks or models out of zones, how I actually won on sacrifice.. I could not kill that spriggan... (or throw it with my minuteman like I thought I could bahahaha) so with that said....

eCaine:
Guideons? ( the one where the square is in the middle and each person has a destructible objective on their side of the square... attrition down, force their caster into the square to contest and pew pew.)

Sacrifice (usually becomes a no scenario, assassination game, I won on scenario... weird.)

(really any scenario that becomes a no-scenario game)


eHaley:

Bunkers/close quarters: ( using pirates with hawk/rhupert/watts/doc combined to with that feat can really really turn the tides in your favor though smart players can force you to a disadvantage.)

I'll try to remember more as I remember it!

[VagrantPoet]

Kara and Siege usually take big guns which are really good at objective scenarios.

[PeterO]

Like pHaley and 2 Hunters ; )

[Rolling_Thunder]

jam lists are great in the center scenarios (flags, Restoration, close quarters)
ranged heavy attrition lists are better in the scenarios that are hard to score, due to big zones (because you can reach out and touch the whole thing) outflank outfight outlast, ect.

siege will blow up an objective pretty easily .

It's a lot more about how you build the list. My haley list was VERY jammy, and built to take and hold scenario zones then use the feat to maintain that control.

pCaine was there mostly as an Anti-jam list in more open scenario's where it's harder to cover all of the ground

[eKraye]

jam lists are great in the center scenarios (flags, Restoration, close quarters)
ranged heavy attrition lists are better in the scenarios that are hard to score, due to big zones (because you can reach out and touch the whole thing) outflank outfight outlast, ect.

siege will blow up an objective pretty easily .

It's a lot more about how you build the list. My haley list was VERY jammy, and built to take and hold scenario zones then use the feat to maintain that control.

pCaine was there mostly as an Anti-jam list in more open scenario's where it's harder to cover all of the ground

My eHaley list was jammy as well, though I used the pirate module (to pretty solid effect), my eCaine list was close to many net lists, though I think if you run eCaine you always come out with similarities because he has really good synergy with units like the boomhowlers... Weird things I included were longgunners and the minuteman to stuff up his five points... turned out that the minuteman really carried his weight..

Also GunMages... super critical to scenario play I scored at least 4 control points by pushing models out that I couldn't kill, so they were indispensable and in both lists

[phreaker187]

ATGM + UA should be in every single SR2012 list you make. The board control alone makes them worth their weight in gold.

[VagrantPoet]

They are also fantastic anti-personnel, a lot of the game's sweetest infantry is stealth, a la bloodtrackers, kayazy and bane thralls. Gunmages eat these for breakfast.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Gunmages are cygnars best unit, and they are probably the best ranged unit in the game. They are just too versatile and too accurate to pass up.

They also win games against dumb things like Ravyn with snipe/feat/go.

[shaner]

You guys have mentioned "Jam Lists". Now, I am not a tournament player as my Meta is too small for that. What is a "Jam" list? How does Cygnar accomplish this? Finally, what are some other types of lists...besides Jam lists??

Thanks

[Rolling_Thunder]

You guys have mentioned "Jam Lists". Now, I am not a tournament player as my Meta is too small for that. What is a "Jam" list? How does Cygnar accomplish this? Finally, what are some other types of lists...besides Jam lists??

Thanks

The goal of a "Jam" list is to tie up the enemy models with your models, to restrict their movement, letting you take/hold scenarios ect. My Haley list is a "jam " list because I shove boomhowlers down peoples throats and clear out their flanks and back lines with gunmages and time-bombs.

Basically if you're not a Jam list or a dedicated assassination list, you are an attrition list. Most Jam lists are a type of attrition, but they usually lose to armies that have a lot of powerful AoEs/sprays so you need something that isn't susceptible to that as a back up.

[shaner]

Okay, cool.

So, here is a list I played a while ago...

pHaley
Defender
Lancer
Squire

BoomHowler & Co.

Gunmages + UA
-----Hunter

I guess this would fall into the category of a Jam list.

Ben, what did you have in your list? Must have been a little similar.

Thanks

[Rolling_Thunder]

I posted both my mayhem lists in the PWYEEEHHHH thread, I'm not going to just litter the forums with all my lists

[shaner]

I posted both my mayhem lists in the PWYEEEHHHH thread, I'm not going to just litter the forums with all my lists

Okay, thanks. I don't follow all of the threads.

[shaner]

Wowsers! That was A LOT of mercs. No way to utilize more in-faction eh?

[Rolling_Thunder]

Wowsers! That was A LOT of mercs. No way to utilize more in-faction eh?

in that particular list, mercs did what I wanted better than swans. I have other lists that aren't that way, but this weekend I represented the Highborne contract a bit as well.

[H'lingus]

Wowsers! That was A LOT of mercs. No way to utilize more in-faction eh?

Im sorry but it seems you have a miss conception (like so many others) that you actually need Cygnar units. To me Cygnar Are a faction of great warcasters. Good jacks shooting and reach melee jacks 2 units and a few solos. so why actually play infaction when you can use the best bits from 2 factions.

If its really that big of a decision for people why dont you write some of your own fluff and just paint them the same as the rest of your swan units, pretty close for a fixed problem imo :3

for me i have been of late Tailoring my lists more to scenarios. some list have been using boomhowlers. others have been using 20 pikemen with p alexia behind.

The best unit for Scenarios is the Gunmages. pushing killing and just outright being a pain in my opponents bottoms. Centurion is a boss in the fact he cant be charged and with the jnr he is arm 24 takes 2 beasts or jacks to finish him off unless they have ways around the armour or a few great rolls to polish it off.(looking to try the cyclone jackmarsheled to the mages at some point as i think it will be very usefull)

Good luck.
H'lingus.

I do have my own problems. in this game. EG trolls and other brick armies. :s

[Ghost Rider]

I posted both my mayhem lists in the PWYEEEHHHH thread, I'm not going to just litter the forums with all my lists

Give a hoot, don't pollute!

[shaner]

Im sorry but it seems you have a miss conception (like so many others) that you actually need Cygnar units. To me Cygnar Are a faction of great warcasters. Good jacks shooting and reach melee jacks 2 units and a few solos. so why actually play infaction when you can use the best bits from 2 factions.

Actually, no misconception at all. I am a big supporter of using mercs...love em. That being said, I was kinda thrown off to see armies with more Mercs in them than Cygnar, that's all. I do understand what you guys are saying...why not use the good stuff??... That's great and all, but when your army is more merc than Cygnar, then why not just play Mercs and be done with it?

Still, looked like a sound list. I'm still amazed at how much stuff can be packed into 50 points. We are still playing at the 35 point level in my area.

Cheers

[tensteam]

That's great and all, but when your army is more merc than Cygnar, then why not just play Mercs and be done with it?

Because Cygnar is basicly the same as mercs PLUS a few key models that are not available to mercs (Squire, Jr, Strangewayes...). Also eHaley alone is a reason to stick with Cygnar because she is so powerful. Mercs have some good casters, but not even close to that level.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Every Caster does different things

Here's my current plannings of caster pairings. to go with my no crutch.

Connie / Haley1

Stryker2 / Kara Sloan

[VagrantPoet]

How do you run with Stryker? He doesn't play well with and Kara really wants the Boomhowlers. I normally build for arm and infantry. But seeing your approach, Connie is a Jam list, while pHaley can hold back and shoot in hard scenarios, while Kara holds back aswell.

How viable is a stryker jam list? I'm sorry to be so intrusive! And understand if you don't want to share lists you haven't run yet. But I've always found your list design to suit my playstyle, I played an eHaley list similar to yours after reading your playing the best articles, and even after trying many combinations its got a lot of the stuff I really like with eHaley.

I've always found Stryker really hard to build a list for. My current thinking is to use Defenders as positive charge makes them monsters in melee, while their guns force people into them. They are also a great ragman candidate as back line jacks who won't be charging very far. Positive charge and darkshorund make them effectively mat 9, pow 20 which is stunningly hard hitting all while firing a big pow 15 gun as the heavies approach.

Beyond this though, I'm a tad stumped. I'd love to see your thoughts on Stryker army composition.

[Rolling_Thunder]

This is a REALLY preliminary list, I have only play 5 or 6 games with. I'm liking it a lot right now though. once I hammer things out I'll write an eStryker article.

System: Warmachine
Faction: Cygnar
Casters: 1/1
Points: 50/50
Lord Commander Stryker (*6pts)
* Thorn (8pts)
* Centurion (9pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team (4pts)
Precursor Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Precursor Knight Officer & Standard (2pts)
Stormguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Sword Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
Archduke Alain Runewood (3pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)

[VagrantPoet]

Looks cool. How do you think Thorn does at earning his points back? And how do you deal with the centurion's speed. Or is the centurion simply running behind the infantry swarm until he's in the middle of the board?

I'm quite liking the idea of Precursors with him, but I often can't abide by how slow shield wall make you!

[Rolling_Thunder]

Looks cool. How do you think Thorn does at earning his points back? And how do you deal with the centurion's speed. Or is the centurion simply running behind the infantry swarm until he's in the middle of the board?

I'm quite liking the idea of Precursors with him, but I often can't abide by how slow shield wall make you!

I only use shield wall AFTER I have charged things, and the follow up turns when I'm cleaning up the infantry that counter-charged me. Basically, pretend they don't have shield wall, and that unit becomes ALOT better.

Cent just runs and then sits in a zone usually with arcane shield.

Thorn is a boss. Arcing rebuke with reaction drive, or being a scary assassination run at MAT 9 PS15 (just arc PC onto him, reaction drive closer, charge and kill casters ) Or objectives, and probably some other stuff.

He is the perfect positive charge target, and lets you cast it from safty, he also has reach on a medium base for the swordknights to get max benefit