First 35-point list

[Brownpanther]

I just started playing and am looking at buying a few more things to build a decent 35-point list now that I've gotten a feel for the game after a few matches. I can't decide between building around eGaspy or eDenny. Here are my ideas for the two lists.

eGaspy (+6)
Deathjack (12)
2X Deathripper (8)

Min Bane Knights (6)
Min Bane Thralls +UA (6+3)

Tartarus (4)
Skarlock Thrall (2)
=35

With eDenny, I was looking at the same basic list but replacing the Deathjack with the Nightmare and adding a Warwitch siren or Gorman with the two extra points. I'm trying to minimized the amount of new things I'm buying too. I'd have to buy either DJ or Nightmare and the Bane Knights. What do you think? What would you change in either of those?

This is what I currently own:
pAsphyxious
pDenny
pSkarre
Venethrax

Slayer
Magnetized plastic heavy kit
2x Deathripper
Defiler

Full Bane Thralls+UA
Min Bile Thralls

2X Pistol Wraith
Warwitch Siren
Gorman diWulfe (Sp?)
Saxon Orrick (Sp?)
Machine Wraith
Tartarus

[SjoerdH]

Deathjack is a very big point investment at 35. Usually I would skip him at 35.
Especially if you play eDenny (you mention pDenny you own?) I would go for nightmare as he is more durable.
Without spening money I would remove DJ for Reaper and spend the remaning 5 for a machine wraith and max out the bane knights (if available) or else a PW and Gorman

[Vex]

Double post, because the PP forums have really started to suck lately...

[Vex]

eGaspy (+6)
Deathjack (12)
2X Deathripper (8)

Min Bane Knights (6)
Min Bane Thralls +UA (6+3)

Tartarus (4)
Skarlock Thrall (2)
=35

There are a couple of problems with this list.

1) Deathjack is a big investment at 35 points. That means that you need to protect that investment, and eGaspy does not have the tools to do so. So, while Deathjack can work for some casters at 35 point, eGaspy isn't really one of them.

2) Never, ever, ever take a minimum unit of Bane Knights. Max or nothing. It's a vengeance thing.

My recommendations:
1) Drop Deathjack from the list. (Leaving you with 13 points, because Min Bane Thralls is 5, not 6)
2) Add Withershadow Combine to the list. (8 points left)
3) Maximize the Bane Knights (4 points left)
4) Add either Darragh Wrathe or 2xWarwitch Sirens (your choice)

[milothewise]

I would go for nightmare as he is more durable.

Don't lie to the man . DJ has +1 ARM and the ability to heal. Stealth with Denny will do less than that +1 ARM most games.

OT - eGaspy likes the troops. eGaspy's feat benefits from hard-hitting reach troops. eGaspy wants a lot of Bane Knights. I don't agree with Vex's "never," but here I really like a full unit of Knights, or two min units, to take advantage of Gaspy's feat. Vengeance is a big plus, and you don't really get to leverage it with just 6 dudes because most opponents can get all 6 in the same turn. With a 10-man unit, the last few get to move and attack, extending threat ranges. With 2 6-man units, the other unit gets to attack unmolested. And really, dead Bane Knights are your Plan anyway .

DJ is a great piece. If you like it, get it and use it. eGaspy doesn't need it, but a self-reliant heavy that can get 5 focus can't be ignored. Which will help eGaspy get into position. More than that, I think it is the DJ + 2 nodes that is really sucking up the points the rest of us think should be spent on troops. He's not casting Parasite every turn, and Excarnate and Death Knell are once-a-game spells, generally. You can definitely get away with just one node, or just the DJ, I think.

[Brownpanther]

Great advice all around!
I really, really like the look of your eGaspy suggested list, Vex! That's going in my personal file for later as I buy more stuffs. Probably won't go for it now, mostly because, $-wise, it's more expensive than what I think I can do otherwise. Maybe I'll stick to eDenny and SjoerdH's tips for now and work toward Gaspy in the future.
Deathjack will definitely be one the top of my buy list when I start transitioning to 50-point games. Even if I could get away with him in 35, it's probably not worth spending on that money in order to squeeze him in.

2 more questions:
I haven't read a lot of lists, but I've never seen Nightmare outside of a Denny list. Is Nightmare not really worth its points without stealth or can it be worth it with other casters as well?

Also, if Bane Knights are primarily useful as a max unit (and that's getting a little more expensive than I like), what would your opinion be on max Satyxis Raiders instead? Ten of them is the same price as six knights. They're pretty rad too, right? Based on what I already have, would they be viable instead of Bane Knights?

[Gamingdevil]

2 more questions:
I haven't read a lot of lists, but I've never seen Nightmare outside of a Denny list. Is Nightmare not really worth its points without stealth or can it be worth it with other casters as well?

He's our jack with the highest threat range, he's good with casters that go for "jack bullet" assassination, such as the Witch Coven or eSkarre.

Also, if Bane Knights are primarily useful as a max unit (and that's getting a little more expensive than I like), what would your opinion be on max Satyxis Raiders instead? Ten of them is the same price as six knights. They're pretty rad too, right? Based on what I already have, would they be viable instead of Bane Knights?

With Denny? Absolutely.
With eGaspy? No. The reason being that you will most likely use your feat to assassinate, the Bane Knights will have an effective MAT8 if you bring Tartarus back to curse. The Raiders will be stuck at MAT6, since they wouldn't be able to use CMA, as they come back as solo's. They would have to rely on lucky rolls or an even luckier crit knockdown to hit DEF14+ casters.

[Vex]

With Denny? Absolutely.
With eGaspy? No. The reason being that you will most likely use your feat to assassinate, the Bane Knights will have an effective MAT8 if you bring Tartarus back to curse. The Raiders will be stuck at MAT6, since they wouldn't be able to use CMA, as they come back as solo's. They would have to rely on lucky rolls or an even luckier crit knockdown to hit DEF14+ casters.

Pretty much, this. I wouldn't even play eGaspy if the list didn't include a full unit of Bane Knights and Tartarus. That's about 75% of your game plan, right there.

[Brownpanther]

Do you then find that he's too predictable?

[Sanctjud]

He's predictable, but the opponent can't do much about it unless they have natural counters.
Or, if your opponent is lacking in ranged firepower, then eGaspy is less predictable, opening up more creative cloud placement, more excarnating, more Deathknelling.

[Rionnay]

He doesnt' need a skarlock. What spell do you ever plan on casting with him? if you want to excarnate something you need to boost to hit which skarlock cant. Save the 2 points.

doesn't need 2 arcnodes if you are taking DJ also. I agree with DJ as a piece but youd be better off taking him out leaving the 2 nodes and maxing your banes.

eGaspy (+6)
2X Deathripper (8)
Max Bane knights- 10
Min BaneThralls +UA-8
BLT-4
Gorman-2
Min Bile- 5
Wrathe -4

-35

[Rionnay]

Doube post, PP please fix forums