35 / 50 pKreoss vanquisher lists

[LiSharpeleo]

35 pt pKreoss

pKreoss +5
Vanquisher 8
Vanquisher 8
Choir (min) 2
Exemplar Errant (full) 8
+UA 2
FG Cleansers (min) 5
FG Cleansers (min) 5
Gorman Di Wulfe 2

50 pt pKreoss
as above
- Gorman Di Wulfe -2
+ Exemplar Cinerators (full) 8
+ Exemplar Cinerators (full) 8

I am trying these out in a casual play environment, but I would like suggestions. I do not currently own any Vassals but I plan on getting two. Otherwise I have Nicia, the rest of the choir, a crusader, and two repenters. I also have split custody of an Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios (my husband plays Cygnar and prefers to use her in his lists.)

[Alzer]

Two units of cleansers seems like a really odd choice in this list (since you're not running Tier 4 Reznik mostly). Maybe dropping one of those for a unit of Knights Exemplar would be a good call. What really stands out is the lack of anti-heavy in this list, and the ABSURD amount of anti-infantry (not that that's always a bad thing).

*Reads list of owned models* Ah yeah, Crusader might help. Three heavies with Errant and Cleanser backup at 35 is pretty nasty. I've actually been finding a crusader and a vanquisher at 35 is a pretty solid combo.

Mayhaps look into a vassal or two. They're really just wonderful with the Vanquisher (4 pies! 4! Fire for EVERYBODY!)

Oh and welcome the the Forum!

[LiSharpeleo]

I agree that it lacks a heavy hitter, though the cleansers can incinerate up to pow 18 direct with the min units, and the vanquishers with battle can almost do as much damage as a crusader... especially if I get the Vassals to back them up. I was thinking of getting Fire of Salvation since his imprint ability is just too good to pass up with Kreoss.

[Alzer]

Yeah Vanquishers can definitely put out the hurt, mine has ripped up something in melee the last few games I played.

I haven't had a chance to CRA a large target with cleansers but I suppose it would work alright. Only problem is you're going to get that one attack, and do a bit of damage on something (per squad) but two unboostable Pow 18s aren't going to take down a heavy, though they should soften it up. I found that the giant fire-cloud was realy the most useful thing when I proxied cleansers, but you probably have more experience with them.

[Wulfy]

I completely understand two units of cleansers. It is for the two clouds to block LOS. But you need vassels to get full effect from vanquishers. Seriously!

Move vanquishers forward and fire them. Then vassals, fire them both again. Now move cleanser, cloud up and block LOS.

So you gotta have two vassals, drop gorman and the UA for the EEs is the simple way. I would add the UA back in in 50 points and take something besides two units of cinerators.

First off, the clouds are not big enough to block LOS to all of them, second, they are never worth their points in games I play. You might be able to hide one unit which if you can get them stuck in may earn back the points, but I am not convinced.

If you have to take MED base infantry I would take Bastions, but really I dont like either, however this is personal choice, but you asked for suggestions. If you really like them, then make them work. I like Deliverers and everyone else hates them, so whatever.

If you only shield some stuff, it just makes targets of the other stuff, so have a plan to brick up and hide everything on approach.
First turn, shoot jacks if in range, otherwise choir hymn of passage and block LOS with clouds, second turn shoot each jack twice the cloud up again. Keep your troops behind them unless you need to run forward to tarpit in front.

Option, use choir to protect jacks from either magic or ranged, then use clouds to guard approach of infantry, Maybe you have enough to get your cinerators forward, maybe.

Viable argument here is you do not have enough heavy hitting power. Add a Templar or Reckoner at 50 point level.
Other problem is stuff with eyeless sight. Two jacks will get owned before they get into combat, and frankly if you lose your heavies first, it is basically over in a 35 pt game.

Your EEs can maybe take out a knocked down heavy on the charge, but you gotta figure you wounded it first to be sure. And if they already have casualties, it is a big maybe.

So weaknesses, not enough heavy power for heavies, and too week against stuff that ignores your clouds.

This list owns infantry though. As in, they might as well just surrender and save you both time.

[jandrese]

IMHO, I don't like running Vanquishers without an attached Vassal on each. For just 25% more points you're basically doubling their offensive output at range (and they prefer being at range). The fact that the Vanq AoE is quite deadly without any boosts anywhere makes it an excellent target for Ancillary attack.

I get that you're trying to set up a smokewall with Cleansers and Gorman and I can get behind that. That's 11" of smoke every turn. I would probably drop the Errants + UA (you have plenty of Anti-Infantry already) and take a unit of Knights Exemplar, two Vassals, and some Wracks. You'll be templating everywhere and the KE and Cleansers can tarpit enemy infantry long enough for the Vanq to get the job done. One great advantage: the Vanq can drop AoEs on top of the Cleansers (if they get engaged by Kayazi or something) and not hurt them. The KE also give you some much needed punch against heavier targets. Fully loaded Vanqs with Choir help and maybe an Ancillary attack can put out a fair bit of damage too.

This will be a fairly touchy list to play, but I think it could be quite effective. There are some bad matchups though. Siege will feat, drop Mage Sight and blow your army to smithereens. Legion has several lists that will basically just bypass it and shoot Kreoss to death. Ravyn's Snipe-Feat-Go will either kill you or wipe out all of your Choir, Vassals, and probably 1 unit of Cleansers depending on how far back you manage to keep Kreoss (you will force him to Feat early though, before the Vanqs get in range and burn them all up).

[LiSharpeleo]

Here's the lists with some changes

Points: 35/35
High Exemplar Kreoss (*5pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer (2pts)
Flameguard Cleansers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Flameguard Cleansers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Vassal Mechanik (1pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

Points: 50/50
High Exemplar Kreoss (*5pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
* Vanquisher (8pts)
Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Exemplar Cinerators (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer (2pts)
Flameguard Cleansers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Flameguard Cleansers (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance (3pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
Vassal of Menoth (2pts)

[FearMeMortals]

For the love of menoth why are there no vassals

[FC17]

I believe he explains he doesn't own vassals. Right there on post one.