And they may have, considering we have relatively little info on the product so far.
And they may have, considering we have relatively little info on the product so far.
I was surprised to see the multiple career thing as a method for advancement (I also see it being tied to the Veteran and Elite "tiers") but I wonder if there will be "advanced" careers? For instance, if you look at someone who is undoubtedly Elite like The Butcher, what 4 careers would he have?
Warcaster - Soldier - Officer - Violent Deranged Psychopath?
I could see in instances where someone wanted to specialize there may be "prestige" careers like Warcaster II or similar. Just a thought.
That would imply a pretty Warhammer-like system, where all "leveling up" is within the career framework, as opposed to e.g. careers "opening up" certain skills and traits, but allowing more free-form advancement within those constraints. Does our existing information imply the former?
Honestly our existing information doesn't imply an awful lot
One day in a brave new future we'll know how it all works! Oh! For that day to come!
I guess I kindof hope that you don't have to keep adding on new careers every so often, but rather that you have the option of advancing within your career or expanding into a new one. If you're forced to add on new careers, then you'll run into the D&D Fighter issue... Around level 10ish, all of the fighters start to look exactly the same, because there's only a few really really good feats, and every fighter takes them. So even if you took a few oddball feats, you start running out of viable oddball feats and you've got to take the classic choices. I'm not pumped about that being the same way in IKRPG2 for ALL classes - i.e. there's a few careers that are just "the good ones" if you're a combat-oriented character, or same for any other archetype... so that in the end all of the "I'm a rogue" types have the same careers eventually, for example. I'm excited about combining them - but I'm also excited about having to really think about the combinations, as opposed to saying "eh, I'll get to that one eventually."
But, too early to start getting worried about it. Hard to make the call on how one thing will play out when you really only know that one thing!
That would be an interesting development. Adding careers as a form of levelling up - would depend heavily on how it is done, but at least it is different.
@Sosthenes - I actually prefer a classless system myself, but I also see most people having a fairly good idea of where they are going with their character and there is nothing wrong with that.
It's because of things like this that I prefer to have your stats reflect your past, not your future. And keep the penalty for changes as low as possible. Sure, you probably can't get in four years of Wizard college, but you might pick up some spells, and you definitely can learn to sneak and pickpocket a bit, even if you start out as Sir Rodderick, headchopper supreme.
As it seems that you can change/add careers, IKRPG2 seems to be somewhat flexible in that regard, although the whole Gifted deal still bothers me a bit.
What I regret most in an RPG are mechanics which easily allow a PC to become so powerful it becomes comical. I came to dislike the 'packages' of the later editions of AD&D. I don't have any issues with accumulating skill and prowess in abilities but not to a point where a PC is only truly threatened by something 7 or 8 levels higher than he is.
From what I see in NQ#42 the IKRPG looks like it will be interesting, fun and new. I am definately looking forward to checking out the books when they hit the shelves.
"We hear that there are tumults and riots in
Rome, and that voices are raised concerning the army and the quality of our soldiers. Make haste to reassure us that you love and support us as we love and support you, for if we find that we have left our bones to bleach in these sands in vain, then beware the fury of the legions."
Skimmed through it at the LGS last night. Very intrigued by what I saw, but realized it's such a small amount of the details (even though it is a good and long preview, ty, PP) that I'm just going to sit tight and bask in the cool when I grab the book at GenCon and read it fresh then.
The article has made me very excited to play this RPG. One of the things I am very interested in is the possibility of seeing a warlock career in the first book. With the option to play Trollbloods we might see just a small option to build a warlock with one or two pets. Still though there is always book 3.
Paint the town red! Playing and Loving Skorne and Khador
The warlock will not be in the first book. There's a lot of goodness in there, and it is going to be a weighty volume, but it is focused on the basic rules and adventuring possibilities most central and iconic to the setting within the human-dominated regions. A number of additional character options will be provided in the books that follow. There will not be the equivalent of an IKWG for the new RPG, but rather something like three, each exploring different aspects of the world and giving substantial playable content including character creation options.
This does mean to fully explore certain character concepts may require waiting until other books are out, but that's how these sorts of releases go--far too much content for a single book or even two! And we still have a lot of work to do finishing them. (Yes, we are actively working on them.) Even with Book 1, I think people will find the character creation affords tremendous flexibility. It's remarkable how much can be represented just by picking certain combinations of careers. But warlocks (and warbeasts) are a bit beyond this and will require quite a bit of dedicated space to do properly, better served for our later volume on the Wilds.
Hey Doug.........what's the chance of seeing any IK stuff next weekend at lock and load?
So, I got my first miniatures for Warmachine today (it's my birthday, actually, and I decided I wanted to try it out) and I thought about how compatible the miniatures are with the new rpg. With characters in the rpg having MAT and RAT and such, is it as easy as just dumping some miniatures from Warmachine into the rpg and use the stat card form Warmachine, or are some conversion work requires? Anyway, if that was possible, the Faction books for Warmachine and Hordes would be a gold mine for NPC stats.
Well we know that there are additional stats for RPG characters above and beyond what the tabletop game offers. BUT for combat purposes we know that MAT/RAT, DEF/ARM are still the main method of getting things done. And we don't yet know how stats will stack up - i.e. in the wargame we consider a MAT or RAT of 4 to be pretty awful and a MAT or RAT of 8 to be what the all-time best have. Will RPG characters have a similar stat range? Maybe, maybe not.
Once the game is released we'll be able to compare stats back and forth between the RPG and the wargames and see how they stack up and make judgements about how this or that model's stats stack up to RPG enemy's stats. I bet it would be pretty easy to take the stats of The Risen that Alexia Ciannor controls, and just take 2 or 3 of them, and make that low level encounter. Making your party face off against the Great Bears, or the Black Thirteenth, that's a different story all-together. And if you send them up against the Behemoth of the Avatar of Menoth, that is yet again a whole new level of trouble!
Sure, the presence of more dangerous encounters is a given - what is an appropriate challenge is a different story. What I was trying to get at was that I think that Warmachine/Hordes stats will probably run the gamut of "low danger encounters" all the way up to "high danger encounters" and that with some experience with the system GMs will be able to get a feel for which ones are which.
Book 1: General rules and basic world information - this is the "core"
Book 2: Detailed information on the Iron Kingdoms (Cygnar, Ord, Llael, Khador, Protectorate), presumably also with some new rules for characters that have to do with those areas.
Book 3: Detailed information on The Wilds (wilderness areas in/around the Kingdoms, and the races/factions that inhabit them), again presumably with new rules.
Book 4: Detailed information on The Other Stuff (Rhul, Ios, Cryx, the Skorne Empire) and again, presumably with new rules.
I'm just hoping that book two follows book 1 very closely. I want to dive into IKRPG2, but I don't want to have to retcon my adventures too much if I find out that book two had cooler ideas than I had regarding the specifics on the Kingdoms.
I thought I heard that books 1 & 2 were being released at the same time, but I can't remember for sure.
Last edited by AJ the Ronin; 05-30-2012 at 01:46 PM.
WARMACHINE/Hordes no more.
Ahhh yeah, didn't see that. Well, I guess one of my bad guys having Farrow minions may or may not have to wait...
So I've finally procured my copy of NQ#42, and here's my analysis:
Feat Points - it's not defined exactly what sort of "awesome thing in battle" will reward you with a feat point, but a brief look at what the feat points do tells me that they aren't over-the-top amazing. Rather they're a resource that you'll want to keep around for important moments. These remind me quite a bit of Action Points from the Eberron D&D setting. You won't win just because you have one - but when you're losing, they can pull your can out of the fire, or they can expedite a win. I think the whole feat point thing will be a big GM discretion issue no matter if they're awarded primarily for combat actions or roleplay actions.
"I'm concerned that careers are all about fighting - where are the role-play-centric careers?" - We still haven't seen a role-play-centric career, but my guess is that something like "spy" or whatnot would trend in that direction. However, they did spoil the Field Mechanik career. It's got plenty of combat oriented abilities and skills. Stuff to do with getting your 'jack to wreck face, keeping your 'jack in fighting form, as well as things to help you survive the whole thing yourself. But there's also some social things built into that career. Right off you have built in connections with others who are mechaniks, and you've got access to a workshop. You're good at negotiating.
Careers: just the two? How many do you get? - Seems like you start with two careers, and you can add three more over time. So my fears are alleviated - you won't be gaining new careers willy nilly and end-level characters will not all look the same simply because they've all ended up having to take all of the careers along the way.
Armor is way more expensive than weapons. They gave stats for one piece of armor and one weapon. They're essentially "equal" in that the armor gained by one is roughly equivalent to the damage that the other does - the weapon is less than half the cost of the armor.
Mechanika is very expensive. They gave stats for the Storm Glaive. It has similar stats to the other weapon shown, except that it can zap people from a short distance away. It's two orders of magnitude more expensive. So apparently zapping is super expensive.
Magic - Drives me nuts that they didn't give any sample Focus or Fatigue stats in this article!!! I'm assuming that low powered users of Focus will start with maybe 2 focus, and that it'll be only until the highest levels that you'll reach the 5-7 range that Warmachine Warcasters have. But.. what about the Will Weavers (yes, not will-workers, will weavers. They'll weave for food, but they won't work for food)? With no information on how quickly Fatigue fades it's hard to make a call about how these two methods balance. Fatigue basically runs like a d20 Sorcerer, where you have a list of spells you can cast, and a cost for each, and a total number (bit of a simplification). But is it a daily thing? In that case I'd want a pretty high Fatigue number relative to Focus. Is it a per-battle thing? Ok, I can be OK with a smaller number. Does fatigue regenerate during battle? Now that would be fun, especially if there was a bit of a random element to it, as you try to manage your fatigue while getting the most out of your spells. Can't wait to find out more on this.
Yes, well known geek blogger and icon Whil Wheavers, as seen on popular TV show Store Track the Flexed Numeration.
Corruption's a lot of fun, are you sure you don't want to try it?
It seems like my prayers were answered and it is (relatively) light on rules - at least core rules. Praise be to Menoth and/or the Ancestors.
-Hey, it's all about the King Haralds.
It's sad that apparently anyone wishing to play a Rhulfolk has to wait for Book Four. Boo-Hoo!
Basic rules for all the races will be in the core book (1), you just get more options and background stuff in the later ones.
Me? Addicted to wargames? Never! I just like them... and I must buy figures... er... not addicted just slighty reliant on them
My PG Blog - Whats going on in Bradford
Yes, they even used a Rhulic character as an example in the last NQ, as I recall it?
-Hey, it's all about the King Haralds.
This is the way the world ends.
there's a lot to read through on this thread (long posts and such), and i'm new to the party here, but something that jumped out to me was the ranges. Namely that everything is measured in inches. this seems natural in a normal table top game, but might become weird in an RPG.
now, i've been playing 4th edition D&D since it came out, which uses five-foot-squares, so that's not too different. The big concern for me is looking where i can go or what my ranges are before i do them. in most games, you know how far a target is from you before you shoot/cast a spell/jump a ravine, etc. either the GM tells you, or you look at a square/hex map and know innately. using inches implies griddless, miniature-based gaming which makes pre-measuring harder.
in the regular tabletop game, premeasuring is obviously not allowed, and the loss isn't as keenly felt. In an rpg, where you only have one character to concern yourself about, and it might be several minutes before you can act again (not to mention the guy who you are fighting doing their very best to kill you before you can), i would at least like to know if i have range before i try to do something.
all this being said, i'm more nervous than anything. the game still looks fun, and i want to try it out, but i am...concerned.
Also, I think a little realism in not knowing how far away you are from something to be rather neat. In the real world, we don't know ranges with a perfect accuracy without some of tools. Why would you character be any different?
Yes, I know i just applied real-world logic to a game.
Judge since April 25 2013
Visit my blog at http://quadiron.blogspot.com/!
Pre-measuring is allowed in the RPG. The grid conversion is doable but not recommended due to some weird things that start to occur on diagonals.
that actually makes me feel a lot better.
how does the system do with a no-minutures-at-all format? for simpler combats, might it be easier to let the whole thing unfold in the imaginations of players?