Paying a Painter

[PPS_Meg]

I don't understand it when people dance around how much they make. The only people who ever benefit from this practice is the people paying them. If people actually talked about how much they charge (and why), a better price might be reached by all. It's a silly taboo, imo. :/

I agree, it is a silly taboo.

When I started taking commissions I asked all the questions that people are asking here and the answer I got from other people who'd been doing commissions for a while was start at $10/hour and then as you get more business, better at what you do, think about raising your rates with new clients.

I provided paint jobs of all quality from tabletop to display pieces. This is also important to take into consideration when taking commissions. Your TT and Display prices shouldn't be the same. More time goes into display than TT.

I also wouldn't advertise starting prices. Advertise your hourly rate. If someone sees the starting price and emails you they may be expecting the price they see advertised, not that it goes up from there.

Ghool--you could probably make a little more than you are now. Your a good painter and I'm sure your stuff has gotten better in the last year.

Also remember that if you are a competitive painter or freelance for miniature companies you can also revise your rates after a while. Advertise your credentials on your website/blog as well. Potential clients want to see examples of work in a nicely presented portfolio, they want to see your reasons as to why they should go with you instead of someone else. A lot of people actually go with the idea that you get what you pay for when commissioning a painter. The more you hone your skill and consistently crank out good work, the more you can charge.

I just want to remind people to maintain a civil conversation. Matt and I have actually been really impressed with the discourse on this topic and encourage discussion.

[PPS_Matt DiPietro]

Wow, guys this has been a great topic! I was thinking about some of the good points that Schnauzer Face was making and remembering a time where I'd charge very little or even paint models for free for my FLGS owner! Of course I was 18 and lived at home but I just wanted to paint the next new model and it sounds like that is not a uncommon thing. However, I do agree that if you're going to charge money for your work it's worth charging what your time is worth and have felt the hollow feeling of having your work undervalued by customers and the heavy weight bearing down on you when all you have is a paint brush to keep a roof over your head. Coincidentally that FLGS owner became the first editor of NO Quarter and got me a job packing miniatures in the warehouse

I wanted to invite Schnauzer Face and other folks like him who may be reading this thread that they get involved in some of the charity projects throughout the year or even organize one themselves or with their local PG! PG_Norbert and I would welcome some more support for Orange crush this year and breast cancer brawl is another great event to paint a charity model to raffle for a good cause! I've found these projects really fun and rewarding for me, and you usually have a lot of leeway and get to paint something that you normally wouldn't! Another great way to paint unique stuff is paint exchanges between local painters or even with individuals whose work you like online! They are a great way to connect with others who feel the same passion for painting that you do

[SchnauzerFace]

Wow, guys this has been a great topic! I was thinking about some of the good points that Schnauzer Face was making and remembering a time where I'd charge very little or even paint models for free for my FLGS owner! Of course I was 18 and lived at home but I just wanted to paint the next new model and it sounds like that is not a uncommon thing. I wanted to invite Schnauzer Face and other folks like him who may be reading this thread that they get involved in some of the charity projects throughout the year or even organize one themselves or with their local PG! PG_Norbert and I would welcome some more support for Orange crush this year and breast cancer brawl is another great event to paint a charity model for raffle for! I've found these projects really fun and rewarding for me and you usually have a lot of leeway and get to paint something that you normally wouldn't! Another great way to paint unique stuff is paint exchanges between local painters or even with individuals whose work you like online

This is a really interesting tangent -- could we possibly get a sticky for charity painting opportunities? I'm currently painting models for Clash for the Cure and the Smiling Blue Skies Cancer Fund (for canine and feline cancer). I don't know what Orange Crush is, but I would love to be involved in that, as well as BCB!

Not to derail this thread too badly, but I am very involved with animal welfare and other environmental charities. If there are any like-minded painters reading, let me know and maybe we can organize some sort of charitable auction to benefit the Humane Society or something similar.

[MagnustheJust]

I don't even understand how painters can make money.

Repetition brings familiarity.

Familiarity brings velocity.

Velocity brings $$$$.

[HeadHunter]

Matt, and Schnauzerface:

I'm glad to help out with such charitable endeavors - but I'm not sure if I'm currently capable of painting a PP model that someone would pay money for quite yet! Still getting used to a different way of painting - some of the techniques that made my Space Wolves look good aren't working on PP models. But I'm practicing as much as I can, to offset my rapidly worsening eyesight.

If I feel I'm at a point where I can show off my work, I'll definitely get on board with that.

[elplagUe]

Charity work is something I'd do. PM me, we can discuss.

[MagnustheJust]

I love the fuzzums!!

Hit me up with a PM as well!!

Just tell me what you want painted, and I'll get right on that!!

[Darguth]

I've only ever commissioned painting from one painter and we are close friends, so it's not a standard "professional" relationship. However, neither of us was looking to take advantage of the other so it was all quite friendly.

The first commission he took from me was a minis-exchange fee. I gave him about $100 worth of Tau I wasn't using and he agreed to paint two Imperial Guard tanks, 2x W40k character models, and 2x test grunt models. He went through a lot of life transitions during the commission and it took a long time, but thankfully I was in no rush whatsoever. It worked out pretty well in the end.

The second commission he took from me was for cash. The commission was for a full crew of Gremlins from Malifaux. I forget exactly how many models it was, but he charged on a per-model basis. My Giant Mosquito models which were little more than a base coat and wash were something like $4 whereas my crew's Master model was I think $12-15 or so. My largest War Pig (50mm base) model I think was $16. They included some scenic bases so those were painted but no special basing had to be done. I think all told the crew ran me something in the $150-200 range.

Ultimately, I think I got a "friend's" rate on both commissions, but I also made it clear that he could absolutely always bump my stuff if other work came up (he was in between jobs/commissions frequently) and that if he felt that he'd undercharged me we could always re-negotiate. Like I said, we were friends and I certainly wasn't looking to stiff him.

All that said, I come from a design/creative discipline myself (though I don't really work in it anymore, sadly) and one of the biggest things stressed to me early in my professional life was always, always, ALWAYS charge what your time is worth. If someone isn't willing to pay you for what you think your time is worth then they aren't a client that you want. Granted, what your time is worth varies. If you're completely out of a job and need to keep a roof over your head your time is worth less than if you've got a full workload and family duties pressing on you every day. But in the end, charge whatever you feel is right and which you can accept while retaining your self-respect.

[PPS_Matt DiPietro]

So didn't mean to derail the thread and if folks want to boot us back on topic feel free!

As far as charity goes I've found the end of the year is my "charity season" and right now I'm in "Convention season" :P the point being it may be a little while before I PM you guys up but it really great to hear such enthusiasm! Last year the community raised over 2,300$ to help out the needy with food on project Orange Crush. The way it worked is that painters from all over the country and even beyond pledged to paint part of a 75pt Pirate army and the project was raffled off. Raffles are a good way to allow lots of people to participate and will usually net more donations than an auction. I've taken note of interested folks and once Charity season rolls around I'll be sure to include you guys in all the fun! For now though hit me up at either Lock and Load or GenCon and we share ideas

[Vicomte Athos]

Wow what an interesting read. As a commission painter/converter I have to say it is strange to see such different ways of pricing things out. I don't like to charge by the time spent as I'm a little OCD and will fuss about little things on models until I feel they are right. My standard rule is that if I wouldn't play with it I don't considered it 'finished' to give back to my customer. I paint above tabletop quality but not at studio level quality, having said that I charge retail value of the mini as a general guideline. My prices go up a bit for annoying things to assemble (Nyss, Whip Chicks) and things that require more effort at attention (casters), but I try and maintain a retail baseline.

[RayofPaintStudios]

I think the average plastic price of each model is pretty fair for tabletop quality. Of course people interpret that differently - to me, tabletop is wash/highlighting small based, and blending shades and highlights on bigger ones. But every piece of armor gets its own color - so a belt buckle won't be brown, shoulder spikes won't be armor-colored, eyes are painted, etc.

For others, it's having color variations between major pieces of armor, and not painting the fine details or shading. Maybe that is what "tabletop quality" means, but as someone else said "if I wouldn't play it, it's not good enough."

For models that require much more detail, then more should be charged. For example, I'd charge a few bucks more to paint most character warjacks than I would a standard jack, because they tend to have more detail to them.

[HeadHunter]

Same here - I would never accept money for work that I wouldn't be proud to play if it were my own. Most people who've asked me to paint for them are those who were impressed by the quality of my own armies - so I feel it would be unprofessional to deliver less than that to others, providing they are willing to pay (and don't mind the time it takes). Personally, I don't charge by the hour (though complexity is a factor) because I'm a perfectionist - and more importantly, I'm not the tidiest painter due to poor eyesight. I'm not going to make someone pay extra just because I had to redo an area or something. So I don't paint as quickly as those whose eyes are as sure as their hands.

[aosol]

Does your friend have photos of what he has painted?
The going rate is about 12 a hour for standard table top.

[vvp]

As a general rule of thumb for contract labor:

3x the hourly wage you would like to have. This is because work is not constant so at 3x you make up for the lulls. There is also an issue with paying your own taxes practically twice.

If you are just doing your friends a favor this is not a big deal but it is something to keep in mind in life.

[Mr.chair]

Just as a funny side note, I got my first privateer press army by a trade for painting of a friend's forces. He didn't want his Skorne, but he liked painted models. Win win

[elladan52]

This is certainly a very informative thread. I've been considering trying to do some commission work myself, and one thing I've always wondered is how do you decide on a color scheme? Does the buyer usually leave it to the discretion of the painter, or is it usually a traditional colors kind of thing?

And along the same lines, what do you do when the customer decides they don't like how the minis came out? (and not from a quality standpoint, but from a color standpoint - I figure if your paint job is sub-par for what you advertise then it's on you)

[PG_Nemlock]

This is certainly a very informative thread. I've been considering trying to do some commission work myself, and one thing I've always wondered is how do you decide on a color scheme? Does the buyer usually leave it to the discretion of the painter, or is it usually a traditional colors kind of thing?

And along the same lines, what do you do when the customer decides they don't like how the minis came out? (and not from a quality standpoint, but from a color standpoint - I figure if your paint job is sub-par for what you advertise then it's on you)

I've only done this for about 7 months now, and admittedly I'm only producing tabletop quality stuff. I Always ALWAYS get the color scheme from the customer is my rule. I've only had 1 friend tell me pick what I want because I've already painted a bunch of his stuff and he trusts me, AND the model was a merc so he didn't really care if it fit with any theme he had going in any of his armies. I'd be scared poopless to assume a color scheme for someone. If left to that I'd probably default to studio scheme or something extremely similar.

[Laughing Man]

I've only done this for about 7 months now, and admittedly I'm only producing tabletop quality stuff. I Always ALWAYS get the color scheme from the customer is my rule. I've only had 1 friend tell me pick what I want because I've already painted a bunch of his stuff and he trusts me, AND the model was a merc so he didn't really care if it fit with any theme he had going in any of his armies. I'd be scared poopless to assume a color scheme for someone. If left to that I'd probably default to studio scheme or something extremely similar.

This. If a customer doesn't give me a color scheme to work with (and I ALWAYS ask when I get the model), I default to the studio scheme.

[HeadHunter]

Same here - I ask the customer what color scheme they have in mind. If possible, I try to find a photo of one that's already done in those colors, or at least an illustration so they can see how the general style will go. Then, I usually paint up one model in the desired color scheme to see if it is what the customer had in mind. Best to find out early in the process - no one wants to complete an entire army to find out it's not what was desired.

That said, I've always had customers who implicitly trust my skills and judgment - so, often times I will suggest a scheme that will work well in terms of color choices, as well as being a style I know I can get good results with. Most of my customers have been people who would rather have something that looks great, over something that's "exactly" what they wanted but doesn't come out as well.

[PG_Darq Hunter]

So I just did my first commission... I charged waaaay less than ten dollars an hour because he was a friend and because I had no idea on how to price these things yet. Though I've found a reasoning behind my lower prices... It takes me forever to paint something on commission. I can paint my stuff super fast because I love it but certain models make me go "Uuuugh, not more exemplar errants" (which is actually the unit I'm stuck on). So in this case, my client/friend got a cheaper rate but I also get to take my time. I tried painting to tabletop quality and I couldn't... I can only manage above tabletop but not contest quality.

Next time I'm keeping a painting diary and doing hourly.

[Rochr]

I have a friend that has painted some of my models. He wanted 15 bucks per model, I gave him 20... Because i know he puts down 2 hours per model. Never undervalue your skills. I would expect to pay 500 bucks to get 35p list painted up well.

[Harvester]

I have done only a very little bit of comission painting.. I guess for about 7-8 bucks an hour.. I don't think I can afford to charge much for my work because Im no extraordinary painter.. I can't win you medals but in exchange I can get the work done fast and have a decent tabletop standard.. An example could be something like this Malifaux mini which took about 4 hours

[ForestZ]

That's an example of why I think charging by the hour is more accurate than charging by the model. I'm assuming that's a 30mm base. I realize I'm not the fastest painter around, but this guy probably took me about 12 hours to paint (I don't think that includes cleaning, basing, priming..just painting). The level of detail on the 2 models isn't even in the same ballpark (I'm talking about the model itself, not the paint job, I think your paint job looks great, Harvester).

Where I struggle with though is that I'm pretty sure this isn't a $120-$150 paint job, so I'm pretty sure I"m not ready for commissions yet....

[PG_Ghool]

About 5 hours:



About 6:



About 7 hours:



About 8 hours:



Be careful about what you charge, and make sure it's consistent. A lot of people don't like their costs of getting an army painted rise.
That's why I usually paint single models at a time. Taking on a load of models leads to burn-out, especially units.

[Harvester]

ForestZ you beat my painting by miles :-) I'm a devlan mud kind a guy and as mentioned I make my money by being fast.. Those who hire me are the people who just want a painted army in a hurry to use in, for example, tournaments which require fully painted armies and who don't want to spend a lot of money in the process.. Besides painting I earn some money cleaning and assembling models since that is something most of my friend hate hehe

[HeadHunter]

I guess for about 7-8 bucks an hour.. I don't think I can afford to charge much for my work because Im no extraordinary painter.. I can't win you medals but in exchange I can get the work done fast and have a decent tabletop standard..

You could ask for more than you're currently charging. That's very good tabletop quality, actually. Your brush work is clean, you have an eye for detail, you did the finer highlights and your grasp of shading is solid. If you did the base up a bit better, an army painted to that standard could easily win a painting prize in a tournament. So what if you can't paint to GD standards? Few of us can.

[HeadHunter]

this guy probably took me about 12 hours to paint. Where I struggle with though is that I'm pretty sure this isn't a $120-$150 paint job, so I'm pretty sure I"m not ready for commissions yet....

You could probably get at least half that if you sold a figure like that. It may take you a while to do it, but you're capable of producing studio-level work! If you listed that as "pro painted", no one would take exception to your use of the term - you have the skills.

So, maybe you can't do it fast enough to ask $10 an hour - but all you need to do is find someone who's willing to pay handsomely by the job, rather than necessarily hourly, and do a small army for them. If you crank out a force to that standard for someone who can afford it, you'll find it's still worth your while.

[PG_ratch]

I think that it depends on quality and other aspects. like i don't base models because i'm terrible at it. but my painting is pretty good for tabletop quality. so i charge by the model since it takes me about an hour to complete a small based infantry.my rates are not outrageous. and its mostly trade atm. i am painting my Store Owner's models and he is trading for the work. paints and brushes first then models and more paints as i need colors. I prefer the trade too. it'll take a lot of funding from my ordering models and paints.

so that i have a Monetary amount for value, here are the rates i have. for quality i have a thread in my Sig. ill be adding a Commission Thread.

Warmahordes Commissioned Painting prices:
Small-Based Infantry $7/model
Small-Based Solos and WarCaster/Locks $10/model
Medium Based Infantry $10/model
Medium-Based Solos and Caster/Lock $15/model
Light Warjacks and Light Character Warjacks $20/model
Large-Based Solos $25/model
Heavy Warjacks, Heavy Character Warjacks, and Large-Based Caster/Lock $30/model