eVyros teaser on BoLS

[Cannotcope]

Someone on the Malifaux boards posted something about how you can plan out turns in Warmachine and similar games, because typically you do your entire turn before your opponent can do anything in response.

This feat give you a turn where your opponent will have to adjust his plans each time he kills a model as you get a chance to respond with movement.

[Jake the Dog]

It's an ok feat at face value. Not crappy, not amazing.

[PG_Stevo]

I could see this feat utilizing Gorgon's in a new way. The list of models that currently ignore Free Strikes in Retribution is very small, and the list of spells that grant immunity is likewise small. Since it doesn't grant Free Strike Immunity, it seems like it's meant to jam your army into your opponent's face. Perhaps Vyros2's abilities and spell list will support that kind of play style.

[lastspartacus]

One thing to keep in mind about Ret feat is that the faction is and should be uniquely balanced around somewhat vanilla, toolbox casters, and very powerful on their own models. Most of the jacks, solos, and units in Ret are on paper terribly broken, but have little synergy with each other and the caster. I have accepted this while facing them and now find it an interesting niche they occupy. eVyros shouldn't be expected to be any eHaley type.

[JacobtheAussie]

My first thought is actually looking at the Sentinals Vengance move after this ToW move.
Second is that the wording there does not say Vyros himself can't benefit
Then it was thinking about Narn all of a sudden standing 3.01 behind your caster

[Mastershake]

Seems weird that pp would have a feat that will stop the clock during your opponents turn to move. I remembered that they were trying to stay away from that as it slows down play.

That one occured to me after a little thought, more of a "this would be a pain with timed turns". I'd rather not eat up the game clock to shuffle infantry around.

It also seems like the feat would run out of steam amazingly fast if your opponent just ran/charged a infantry unit with Reach to engage your front lines first. Without a way to ignore free strikes at this point, all your army is doing is shuffling.

It's also much more predictable than it seems. Much like chess, any game has right moves. Certain models will get engaged by enemies first because your opponent expects them to recieve feat moves and they plan around problem models getting out of activation movement if they can't stop it.

EDIT: I actually gave the idea of the various feats that would parry this some thought i.e. eDenny, pKreoss, Barnabas, Old Witch and to a lesser extent pDenny, Grim Angus, Harbinger and realized something. The turn you'd want to pop this is right when your opponent is about to attack, but before both armies are fully engaged which poses a practical probelm since the turn following this is also the turn all of these feats would ideally be used. It's vulnerable to just being incidentally countered because in all likelyhood it's the right turn for someone like eDenny to feat anyways and dreamcrushing yours is just a bonus.

[PG_DaveZee]

I would think this would make it very difficult to clear Ret from an objective or contesting zone on feat turn.

[santospr]

I think it can help counter eLylyth for ret. You have your fodder infantry you dare her to kill so the rest of your army moves yet again. If she doesn't then, either scenario hurt or you run and engage with Halbediers?

Otherwise, all this theory is useless but still amusing. Some people will be filled with glee, while others will moan. Lets see what else he got on his card. I do sense a melee style army will be favored though, especially jammy one.

[themocaw]

I think it can help counter eLylyth for ret. You have your fodder infantry you dare her to kill so the rest of your army moves yet again.

Yes. That's right. Let's move my entire army into eLylyth's shooting range one model at a time. Wouldn't want to make it too hard for her.

[Mastershake]

Unless you're doing it wrong you'd likely run models, then move to engage where possible when they die to stop shooting since nothing but eLylyth herself ignores free strikes.

[lastspartacus]

Double post somehow.

[PG_Dino-Czar]

Unless you're doing it wrong you'd likely run models, then move to engage where possible when they die to stop shooting since nothing but eLylyth herself ignores free strikes.

Vyros will be on a large base and within 12" of the models dyeing if you try to use his feat this way. I don't like his survival odds on that.

[jandrese]

On paper, that looks like a pretty situational feat. It's bad news for short range shooters (Zealots) against Reach troops, and might allow for some scenario shenanigans, but overall it seems kind of weak. It does let half of the unit maybe walk out of range of a shooty unit, but then they'll be too far away to run to engage.

It just needs something. Maybe if the model that makes the move then gets to make a free vanilla melee attack? That would turn it into a proper denial feat. There just doesn't seem to be enough meat to this feat. It's enemy triggered, it's only movement, it doesn't ignore freestrikes, only triggers once per model, I just can't be excited about it.

[PG_Stevo]

Without any other details of Vyros2's rules, it's kind of early to be bashing this feat. For all we know he might have Elite Cadre: Dawnguard that grants Parry or some weird rule. The idea of loading up a Hydra and using this feat to move it out of activation to still grant an Aiming bonus seems pretty good. Tying up enemy models with Sentinels (who at the very least would end up getting their 3" Vengeance Move *and* a second out of activation advance) seems pretty good.

But it's all pretty speculative until we see the rest of his card.

[Calcifar]

Own its own, I dont like this feat much. It seems very situational to me aswell and would be shutdown/neutered by feats of th most popular warcasters.

This is quite disappointing.

[DesertSpiral]

Pinning hopes of this feat on elite cadre: Acrobatics, perfect balance, evasive, etc etc seems ridiculous.

I think its a lot safer to assume that Vyros will be vanilla himself wih awareness rather than birds eye and work off that principle with anthing else being a bonus, low expectations = great revelations.

The feat seems like it is the water chapter out of the art of war. With no pun intended for the tide of it, i have to say that at first glance i raged about it, but not that i've slept i feel that it has a certain potential that cannot easily be expressed on paper. Yes it gets hosed by all the great denial feats out there, but what it allows you to do is react and adapt in a real time fashion. Suddenly you aren't playing war machine - you're playing Starcraft and that rules!

I'd like to do some testing on it, but that's unreliable without the whole package. What I do feel though is that this feat will be have a high learning curve but potentially provide high rewards.

[ReaverQueen]

It definitely has a few counters like pKreoss or pSorscha, but, some feats are just designed that way. It's also dependent on model destruction and not hit/damaged, which is kind of a soft spot feat-wise. Means that your warjacks getting attacked aren't going to trigger it much, if at all. I really like the idea of repositioning eVyros late in the turn though to maximize his assassination potential.

At that point though you're kind of playing a game of cat and mouse where the attacking player can deny you that move if you hold out too long just by ceasing the destruction of models.

And of course, any means to kill models that aren't strictly attacks, such as Electro Leap, are going to be a decent counter to this feat.



My first instinct seeing this feat is to reach for my WGRC. Suppressing fire around potential vectors or typical charge lanes. Then have another unit buck down a few elves. Anyone who tries to capitalize on the free move and enters the AOE takes a POW 10 damage roll, without an attack, which means the feat doesn't proc again. Should safely wrangle the Retribution models into the proper positions or force them to fall back. I guess it depends on their stats mostly.

[PG_Shadow37]

Without any other details of Vyros2's rules, it's kind of early to be bashing this feat. For all we know he might have Elite Cadre: Dawnguard that grants Parry or some weird rule. The idea of loading up a Hydra and using this feat to move it out of activation to still grant an Aiming bonus seems pretty good. Tying up enemy models with Sentinels (who at the very least would end up getting their 3" Vengeance Move *and* a second out of activation advance) seems pretty good.

But it's all pretty speculative until we see the rest of his card.

+1

Any ability/feat that offers extra movement is pretty strong in this game imo. I think this feat will offer Retribution quit a bit of versatility. I believe there will be a larger learning curve associated with this feat, but I really think it will be worth it.

As stated, this feat really helps with setting up a strong counter charge. Sometimes it's tough to squeeze in all of your counter attacking models during the turn you counter attack. With this feat you can move your models into position so as to make more efficient use of your counter attack.

[Trygle]

Personally I think this feat is awesome!

It's just the right powerlevel for feats. Not ball bustingly horrible to pla7y against, but no where near easy to deal with.

[jandrese]

The biggest advantage I see is that you can clog up charge lanes all day long with it. There will be no shooting open a hole to the caster during his feat turn unless you have a denial feat too. Still, there are too many caveats for me to really get excited about this feat.

[Defenstrator]

I'm not going to say good or bad on a model that I know nothing else about. But at first glance it doesn't inspire me. It reminds me of Magnus's feat. Interesting, and occasionaly you can pull off a neat move with it, but not something your opponent normally worries about.

[themocaw]

There will be no shooting open a hole to the caster during his feat turn unless you have a denial feat too.

There certainly will be. Vyros2 is on a large base. Or were you planning on taking Destors and heavy jacks to bubble-wrap him?

. . . actually that could possibly be an option now that I think about it.

[PG_Devilsquid]

I'm hoping that V2 is the same as V1: A solid caster with an ok feat. If Epic Vyros's feat is ok, then I'm expecting the rest of him to be pretty bad ***.

This has a definite 'screw with your opponent' feel too it, and you can move your key pieces forward or back as needed. Oh hey, that Banshee is now in range of your caster, so no more spells, bummer that.

[jandrese]

There certainly will be. Vyros2 is on a large base. Or were you planning on taking Destors and heavy jacks to bubble-wrap him?

. . . actually that could possibly be an option now that I think about it.

I was talking about shooting open a charge lane. Since he's on a large base as you noted, you won't need to kill the small base guys to shoot him anyway. If you do have large base models, that might actually work, kill a bodyguard and a heavy jack walks over and fills the gap.

[NEoJoe]

Vyros will be on a large base and within 12" of the models dyeing if you try to use his feat this way. I don't like his survival odds on that.

Against eLylyth, he might (might) be in trouble, but if he's as durable as pVyros, Lylyth will be a fool to bother trying to kill him (provided Discordia is.)

Against just about anything else, ten bucks says he'll be fine.

[Defenstrator]

I'm hoping that V2 is the same as V1: A solid caster with an ok feat. If Epic Vyros's feat is ok, then I'm expecting the rest of him to be pretty bad ***.

See I'd describe pVyross as a solid warcaster with a bad feat. I'be never heard it even described as ok, just bad. It's like a crap version of eNemos feat, and that ones not exactly game breaking.
Theoreticly it allows you to charge up jacks, or have one chew up a unit. But in game you invariably miss, or they make a tough check, or self sacrifices, or something. It seems to take a large amount of work just to recieve a benefit other feats just grant.

[quindraco]

The most obvious use for the feat I can think of is maintaining Shield Guard/Defensive Line despite casualties.

[NEoJoe]

Vyros will be on a large base and within 12" of the models dyeing if you try to use his feat this way. I don't like his survival odds on that.

Against eLylyth, he might (might) be in trouble, but if he's as durable as pVyros, Lylyth will be a fool to bother trying to kill him (provided Discordia is.)

Against just about anything else, ten bucks says he'll be fine.

[AJ the Ronin]

Against eLylyth, he might (might) be in trouble, but if he's as durable as pVyros, Lylyth will be a fool to bother trying to kill him (provided Discordia is.)

Against just about anything else, ten bucks says he'll be fine.

Against eLylyth, he might (might) be in trouble, but if he's as durable as pVyros, Lylyth will be a fool to bother trying to kill him (provided Discordia is.)

Against just about anything else, ten bucks says he'll be fine.

That's one epic 15-minutes-in-between double post.

[NEoJoe]

Holy crap. It was. Uh. Woops?

[MediumYellow]

I thought Privateer Press would attempt to address this issue where there is a single caster that can beat their (Retribution) entire faction. When it come to Hyperion, eVyros and whoever else, my standard is this.

This is a real question, does anyone seeing this feat play into helping Retribution play a balanced match against elylyth?

[PG_Devilsquid]

See I'd describe pVyross as a solid warcaster with a bad feat. I'be never heard it even described as ok, just bad. It's like a crap version of eNemos feat, and that ones not exactly game breaking.
Theoreticly it allows you to charge up jacks, or have one chew up a unit. But in game you invariably miss, or they make a tough check, or self sacrifices, or something. It seems to take a large amount of work just to recieve a benefit other feats just grant.

Back when Retribution Jacks were going to get +1ARM for each focus on them like overboosting powerfields, his feat made a lot more sense.

[PG_aterdaeus]

Seems great against gunlines. Very similar to Kalias' feat. Sometime it does "nothing" but that "nothing" is because the feat caused the opponent to do nothing. My opponent doing nothing is fine with me

[jandrese]

Back when Retribution Jacks were going to get +1ARM for each focus on them like overboosting powerfields, his feat made a lot more sense.

That would have been a great secondary effect of his feat.

[Murkhadh]

I thought Privateer Press would attempt to address this issue where there is a single caster that can beat their (Retribution) entire faction. When it come to Hyperion, eVyros and whoever else, my standard is this.

This is a real question, does anyone seeing this feat play into helping Retribution play a balanced match against elylyth?

Yea actually. The best way to beat her is to get to her and her force, getting to move models out of activation helps you do that.

[FeignLife]

On paper, that looks like a pretty situational feat. It's bad news for short range shooters (Zealots) against Reach troops, and might allow for some scenario shenanigans, but overall it seems kind of weak. It does let half of the unit maybe walk out of range of a shooty unit, but then they'll be too far away to run to engage.

It just needs something. Maybe if the model that makes the move then gets to make a free vanilla melee attack? That would turn it into a proper denial feat. There just doesn't seem to be enough meat to this feat. It's enemy triggered, it's only movement, it doesn't ignore freestrikes, only triggers once per model, I just can't be excited about it.

These were pretty much my exact thoughts upon seeing it. It's just lacking "oomph". I'm hoping the rest of him turns out to be a bit more powerful, if for no other reason than this not setting the caliber of the other warcasters we might be seeing.

[PG_Deranith]

With certain models this feat could be deceptively good. Banshee advancing even more quickly, Narn positioning for a go at assassination, advancing reach models to engage shooters, messing with assassination vectors, preventing getting removed from zones are all just some of the uses. It isn't one of those disgustingly good feats like eHaley, eGaspy, etc... but it has a lot of potential to be a game maker, especially in scenario play.