After years of playing that Other game we finaly picked up Warmachine/hordes :)

[doom_reaver]

Chutes and Ladders.

Chutes and ladders???? It's snakes and ladders dammit!!!! can't you trans-atlantic heathens leave anything alone? is nothing sacred anymore

[ShockwaveIIC]

RE: Unpainted armies,

I live near warhammer world, you will see a lot of people playing with unpainted/basecoated GW models there, it's not such a thing anymore as it used to be, and a lot of that on the GW side did come down to the view of one figure painter who eventually left, and I beleive still holds that view that only painted models should be used.

Painted is nicer, but not always feasable.

Was it not the same person that PP once employed?

Anyhow, without GW I doubt very much that there would be a PP or a Battlefront, in fact the only well known game that I know of that would exist if GW didn't is Battletech. Like some people on here and most of my gaming group, I have also done time with GW and I still believe that as a range they still produce the best models, though the gap between them and second place is a lot less than it use to be, but I'm not certain that they have the best models.

However there rules are lacking (So many codexes have failed their Ward save), and I know a lot of people are really hoping that they get sixth right (As a group we are playing our own rules based on 4th), if they intend to get back on top, they need to get their playtest group sorted out, the company rivals (PP and others) hope they don't.

[doom_reaver]

Was it not the same person that PP once employed?

During the time Fat bloke (sawyer???) was editor of white Dwarf they had an excellent cadre of artists. Actually without the eavy metal team and the golden Daemon i dont think we'd have the standard of mini painting we have today. Could you imagine if GW had to have froze in the "red phase" and never tried for a grittier look ( shudders ). could you imagine warmachine figures painted like they were in the "red phase"?

[ShockwaveIIC]

During the time Fat bloke (sawyer???) was editor of white Dwarf they had an excellent cadre of artists. Actually without the eavy metal team and the golden Daemon i dont think we'd have the standard of mini painting we have today.

Agreed. They have a lot that can be laid at their feet, both for good and the bad.

[doom_reaver]

Agreed. They have a lot that can be laid at their feet, both for good and the bad.

Totally, The way I look at it is that GW popularised table top wargaming. They were original dedicated and commited to high quality. When they achieved essentially global dominance they became complacent and torpid and in many respects I think stretched themselves too thinly. As it stands now they have both blazed the trail and also lapsed enough for other companies to become a valid competition. They now stand at a somewhat critical juncture, Do they A) continue the status quo. or B) do they step up to the mark and show other companies why it was them that brought TT gaming into the stratosphere.

[Samhordes]

To the OP. Welcome friend! I hope you keep rolling in the good times!

Regards,
Sam

[Murkhadh]

This is getting off topic.

To the OP, welcome to the game, we hope you enjoy it.

[Wishing]

I'm firmly in the "both games are cool" camp. GW has the edge when it comes to models, but PP have the edge when it comes to rules. So both have their pros and cons, as I see it.

To the OP: Welcome to the game!

[Chip]

Chutes and ladders???? It's snakes and ladders dammit!!!! can't you trans-atlantic heathens leave anything alone? is nothing sacred anymore

Tell me about it - I only recently learnt that what Americans call "Clue" is what the civilised world calls "Cluedo"! What is happening on the other side of the Atlantic!?

[J. Beatnik]

I'm in the same boat as the OP. I got into miniatures gaming originally from Warhammer Online, then got into 40k from the books. I have about 2500 points of Soul Drinkers that I still love to play. My favorite model is the dreadnought, and when I found out that Warmachine had huge robots of death and destruction, I was sold! These robots can do power attacks and crazy stuff, so I immediately bought in two fisted. I've only been playing about a month and a half or so (right about when the Olgunholt league started) and I'm sitting on 70 points of Cygnar right now and eyeing Circle as a hordes faction.

I gotta say, it's just been awesome to experience this game, its cool fluff and background, and paint all kinds of sweet looking steampunk models.

[Kuwanger23]

We have chutes and ladders and snakes and ladders. Same game different names. We also have many versions of it based on themes like marvel chutes and ladders and such.

[doom_reaver]

We have chutes and ladders and snakes and ladders. Same game different names. We also have many versions of it based on themes like marvel chutes and ladders and such.

We're just messing mate, bit of a slagging is all. You have to look at it from our Old World perspective, You guys sail off in your Mayflower and are gone for years and years and then when we finally hear from you we find you driving on the wrong side of the road, replacing the letter s with z and only distilling your whiskey once. Of course we're going to be bewildered. As parents we blame ourselves

[Steam Pants]

Yes, to the original poster, welcome. I too came over from GW games and for the same reasons. I still enjoy the other games actually. They're still fine in a beer & pretzels with your friends kinda way. Now is a great time for table top gaming. There are so many companies out there making fun games. One for almost every mood you might be in.

No you really don't have to. Thats a key distinction between this game and the other one and one of the bigger reasons its become so popular. There is a large group of players who HATE painting and this is okay.


Different people enjoy different parts of the hobby. Some rarely if ever play, they just enjoy painting. Others HATE painting but love to play. Its not right to tell anyone they "should paint" anymore than it is to tell those who just like to paint that they "should" play.

Easy buddy. Spoken like someone who REALLY hates painting. :0 I understand. It's cool. Don't worry, I'm not one of those paint snobs that thumbs their nose and people with unpainted models. When I say "should" I mean I don't mean "you have to because if you don't you're beneath me and an insult to the game". When I say you "should" , I mean "hey, this game is very much visual as well as it is the strategies and tactics. The game is cooler with painted minis and if you can manage even just a simple base coat and wash, it'll be awesome....I assure you." I also understand there's different reasons for not painting. Busy lives, fear of brushes, etc...

Also, with any miniature game, you don't have to paint any miniatures, not even with the GW games. They don't make you paint them either. Perhaps at certain tournaments, but not at your local store or at your home. Not even at Battle Bunkers. "Should" and "Have to" are two different things.

That being said though .... I always say you should at least try to do even the most basic simple painting job on your minis. Why? It's because I really like Warmachine/Hordes and I like selling them to more of my other gaming buddies. It's so much easier to enthrall more players when your game looks cool. Right now, if I walk into a gaming hall at a convention, the "Other" company's game shows cool looking soldiers fighting among ruined urban cities and desolate blasted landscapes. Our game is metal/primer white/primer black things fighting over felt and paper geometric shapes in a field of random metal rings and unfinished brick walls made my crazy masons who decided to they got bored and walked away after completing about five or six feet.

You want to brag about our game? Yeah, the rules are awesome. Yes, the company support is awesome. Yes, the miniatures are cool too. You're gonna say that those are the important things that should be better and painting is at the bottom of the priority scale. Yes, you're right. But why not make the victory a complete one? Let's just a go a tiny bit further and make our game have the best looking tables too. Why not?

By the way, I hear Warmachine Weekend might be making painted minis a requirement.

[gunslingerpro]

We're just messing mate, bit of a slagging is all. You have to look at it from our Old World perspective, You guys sail off in your Mayflower and are gone for years and years and then when we finally hear from you we find you driving on the wrong side of the road, replacing the letter s with z and only distilling your whiskey once. Of course we're going to be bewildered. As parents we blame ourselves

On a side note, I love this statement.

On Topic: Steam Pants has a good point. And most people I know enjoy painting the smaller armies to more detail than they did their massive lists in 'the other.' Not all, but most.

[profparm]

Personally, I hated painting for the longest time. Absolutely hated it. Honestly, I didn't care much about how models looked, either. I got in to Warhammer and 40k because my favorite computer games were Warcraft 2 and Starcraft. I cared about rules and tactics and playing a game, to me it didn't even matter how the models looked, simply what their rules were. I was not the ideal candidate for a GW game, and for a LONG time, senior players reminded me. I got a lot of comments about not painting armies and playing stuff that wasn't necessarily the most fluffiest thing ever. The stigma stuck with me, even when I got more focused on fluff; when I played an all-skink Lizardman army that was "led" by a single Saurus on a Carnosaur when their book came out in 7th edition, players only harked on me for playing a monster/shooty list, and I got non-stop beef for it. When I explained the theme, players only told me I was trying to justify a broken list.

Then I had an idea to play Space Orks in 40k as the Orkham Inmates, painting up a Jokork and a Harvork Dent. Now I have fun painting, but only when I can connect it to a theme like that. I'm looking at Khador thinking, "Marvel's 1602 Latveria, with Vlad as Count Otto the Handsome aka Count Otto von Doom", and it gets me excited about painting them up. If I knew how to use green stuff, all my warjacks would have capes. But before I thought of that, I was looking at the models and thinking, "I wonder if I should even waste the time to primer these things."

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

[Lachlan the Mad]

If I knew how to use green stuff, all my warjacks would have capes.

DO WANT

I suggest using some real fabric offcuts. Wire them up or cover them in glue and paint if you want them to billow.

[Kuwanger23]

I am amused by you folks across the pond. I truly am lol.

[HRM]

I honestly couldn't ever go back to Warhammer Fantasy - they've simply uped the ante too far regarding game size and model count. I remember when I got into tabletop gaming, 5th Editiion WHFB... I had a 2,000-point Dark Elf army that took FOR-FREAKING-EVER for me to acquire, and that was of course before prices looked like they did now. It never did get fully painted - I think my Witch Elves got done, and one unit of Corsairs, but that was it. With lower point costs and larger games...? Forget it, I'm out.

Now, if Sixth Edition 40K is any good, I'll likely dust off my Black Templars and Crimson Fists, but we'll see.

[ShockwaveIIC]

Now, if Sixth Edition 40K is any good, I'll likely dust off my Black Templars and Crimson Fists, but we'll see.

*Shakes magic 8 ball* Outcome not looking good.

[Circle noob]

i really dont get this discussion. you like your game fine. you dont like the other game. that is fine as well. but why in the name of bob, do you have to tell us this fact? hope you enjoy your time playing any game.

Offtopic: paint if you want to, just dont feel forced to paint.

40k 6ed. i personally hope that it will rock. several reasons. firstly, i dont see any advantage in wanting it to suck. second, i like it when people enjoy their game. third, competition keeps things fresh, therefore pp will also strive to improve their product which is always a good thing...

[CeltKhan]

We're just messing mate, bit of a slagging is all. You have to look at it from our Old World perspective, You guys sail off in your Mayflower and are gone for years and years and then when we finally hear from you we find you driving on the wrong side of the road, replacing the letter s with z and only distilling your whiskey once. Of course we're going to be bewildered. As parents we blame ourselves

It could be worse. We could be wasting ink printing a bunch of extraneous "e"s and "u"s in words that don't need them. Not to mention the extra "i" you add to aluminum. Seriously, what's up with that? If you feel a need to add more of the "nyu" phoneme to your daily life, just import more Three Stooges. You get three times the "nyu" for one less syllable; what a deal!

[Krimsonscythe]

You can fill the forums with a hundred fold of these same stories. I played ahem, the "big" 2 for years then got into WM back when Rollers were Stampedes. But as young pups often do they went astray and I traded away my beloved Cryxx. Fast forward to years later and ridiculous amounts of wasted money on keeping up with "creep" and armies made useless by mindless rules changes to MkII.

My buddies kept trying to convince me to try WM again and I finally acquiesced after my Vampire Counts were made utterly useless. It took one read of the new rulebook and a single battlebox game to get me hook, line and sinkered again!

I suddenly found my passion for the entire hobby again.

Its been a year(or more) of absolute fun and excitement. Welcome into the fold....

Eric J

[Mr.chair]

My first thought was to think "wow, that's great, but you're preaching to the already converted. Why not post this on the GW forums!". Of course, I am reminded that GWs forums have not existed for years because they inevitably dissolved in to one big flame fest since everyone was looking for a place to gripe about their terrible rules design and poor balance! How lucky are we that we play a game where the attached forums are a place for expressing delight and learning from each other. Squeel

[Shoshanah]

Every time I find a thread like that, I feel how lucky I was. For, you see, for me it was Warmachine that was "the other game" for a long time. Then I learned there is no such thing as "the other game".

Let me tell you a story.

I started, as many of us here, with Games Workshop games and licencensed games (it was actually Space Crusade video game that got me into the 40k background). Started with WHFB (... fourth edition I think...?), went to 3rd ed WH40K, got into both Mordheim and Battlefleet: Gothic when they came out. Some were only short-term fascinations, other made me amass playable armies.

My interest in 40k (on which I concentrated) actually fizzeled when a converted army project (chaosy, mutated Eldar) overwhelmed me both financially and in terms of the work-hours required.

Warmachine tempted me, though to get into it I had to learn to tolerate the warjack aesthetic and the "page 5" ravings (the original, MK1 one actually made me not buy a starter when I almost made my mind...). Finally, I bought some Khador, then Skorne, and two smallish LoE and Cryx projects. My GW armies promptly started to gather dust.

Then, when my PP collection grew respectable, the painting and playing went on a hiatus. To get out of it, I bought some Dystopian Wars and loved it! The models the rules, the style of play was refreshing and fun (one-shotting a capital ship is indeed priceless, even when it happens to your ship ).

And then I decided to do the unimaginable. Among the cries of "cheese" and corporate greed, the doom of Finecast and the "moneygrab" of the new paint line, I got into Warhammer 40k again. Bought a Dark Eldar (my first 40k army, the remake of which I adore) starter and some units I liked, visually, and started assembling and painting. Love it.

Two weeks ago I played a small battle with my old 40k stuff against an old friend. Table was too small, armies supossedly "unplayable", no scenery. Just lined up just beyond the gun range, started walking and shooting. Many "serious" players would not even grace this event with the term "battle". Best fun I had in months.

So, what is the point of this longish post? That there is no "other game", there should be no place for brand-hate in this hobby - there are just things you like and things you don't. There is no point to give "evil corporations" excuses and claim that "I will never look back". You will, it's naive to think otherwise.

Plus, its never GW vs. PP. There are so many other great games, that to pretend there are one or two monolithic companies and nothing more is demeaning for Spartan Games, Corvus Belli, and many, many others.

I walked back from PP games to GW's, and walked from both into Spartan Games. Nothing impossible or shameful about it.

[neathleanan]

I have to say, whilst I've gone off Warhammer Fantasy, I still very much play 40K in addition to Warmachine/Hordes.

Both games itch different spots for me. 40K is great for bigger games (with tanks, very important), whilst Warmachine is more cinematic and more personal (and it has to be said, has tighter rules).

As I don't have enough time to game as much as I would like, these things tend to go in cycles so I'm just getting into (playing) Warmachine after a six month break.

Anyway, its all good!

[morglum5780]

You can fill the forums with a hundred fold of these same stories.
Eric J

You could also fill the forums with posts representing people who felt the opposite way. Of course, they would all be removed by mods for their dissidence...

[PG_Killbox]

The 'triple whammy' of the other company (Southern Hemisphere trade embargo, 'improved' model casting and [yet another] price increase) made me look elsewhere, but that's not why I've stayed with WM&H.

It's truly a phenomenal game and I've loved just about every minute of it. Never looked back once and the future looks bright. Or maybe that's just the glow from a Stormwall in the distance...

[Warlordtheft]

I think it's a very rare tabletop gamer that didn't start out with Gee-Dub. 40K is STILL the easiest game to find an opponent for.

True, but some of us might have started off with Battle Tech, DBA ANcients, Napoleonics or other historical miniatures as well. Me I started with GW in 88, played until the mid 1990's and left for Warzone-Mutant Chronicles, tried Vor (they had ageneric create your own army type system in addition to the 4 main factions), and a few others. It is an interesting and time consuming hobby regardless of system.

PS: I'd say in my area (NOVA) finding warmachine/hordes players is not that hard. It is as easy as finding 40k players.

[Sanguinary Dan]

As an ex-employee and player of GW, i whole heartedly agree.....

whether you think the game (WHFB/40k) is better or worse than Warmahordes, there is no question/debate that the companies are worlds apart and one is very much better than the other. I say this as an ex-employee of the one that is worst than the other. The attitude/atmosphere of the one company is vastly worst than the other. It is clear in the way the games are designed, the interaction/communication between the community and the company and the general attitude given through their rules and publications.

I moved from WHFB a year ago and i couldnt be happier with my choice. While im still a noob at this game, im so excited to get into it and learn more that i have never once regreted my decision to sell off my 3 WHFB armies and 1 40k army.

GREAT JOB PP!!!

In many ways this is me as well, down to the former employee bit even, though I've kept three 40K and one WHFB armies. PP has done a superb job of creating a fun, flexible game with a background just as fascinating as GWs. I fully intend to keep playing both companies games though WM/H has fully absorbed my gaming time for the last year. And with Colossals coming I see that trend continuing for a long time to come. Variety is the spice of life. And WM/H izza one spicy meet-a-ball!

[Mr.chair]

@Shoshanah. I see what you are saying, though I think you are ignoring depth in favor of acceptance. To my eyes, checkers is still a game, and it's no less a game than chess is a game, but I'll still argue that chess is the BETTER game until my face is blue That said, when I'm in the mood to relax I think checkers is the better choice. Are we all following my terrible metaphors, haha? I think that GW still holds an important market bracket:
A) Where do I turn when I want to play a game drunk? Well, GW.
B) Where do I enjoy to play team battles the most. So long as I'm drunk, refer to answer A.
Beyond those, I think the greatest purpose GW serves is to introduce young people to games in general. Privateer Press is the apple of my eye, but they don't produce a game compatible with the mental faculties and maturity of younger players. GW eases those players in to the idea of rolling dice and painting toys so that when they get their first chest hair they'll be ready to move on to something deeper.

[Ysthrall]

After years of playing WFB, 4th edition, 5th edition, 6th edition and 7th edition, I rather lost interest around the 8th edition, when the promise of buying another set of rule books came up. After poking Warmachine with a tape measure a bit, I discovered (in 2008) that they'd started in 2001 and were still on their 1st edition. I was also suitably impressed by the way the starter box came with the basic rules and cards for all models in it.

But yes, credit to GW for blazing a path of large marketable wargames, getting squillions of people into the hobby, providing many of us with hours and hours of fun. I still keep an army or two should I wish to go back to it. But not at the moment, or for the forseeable future.

[Falcon42]

I'm in the same boat as the OP. I got into miniatures gaming originally from Warhammer Online, then got into 40k from the books. I have about 2500 points of Soul Drinkers that I still love to play. My favorite model is the dreadnought, and when I found out that Warmachine had huge robots of death and destruction, I was sold! These robots can do power attacks and crazy stuff, so I immediately bought in two fisted. I've only been playing about a month and a half or so (right about when the Olgunholt league started) and I'm sitting on 70 points of Cygnar right now and eyeing Circle as a hordes faction.
I gotta say, it's just been awesome to experience this game, its cool fluff and background, and paint all kinds of sweet looking steampunk models.

I run both factions you mention; both are great fun.

[Steam Pants]

I have to say, whilst I've gone off Warhammer Fantasy, I still very much play 40K in addition to Warmachine/Hordes.

Both games itch different spots for me. 40K is great for bigger games (with tanks, very important), whilst Warmachine is more cinematic and more personal (and it has to be said, has tighter rules).

That's interesting. I personally find Warmachine/Hordes to be less cinematic than 40k. Usually, what breaks the cinematic feel for me is when people who are fighting on the same side are shooting/hitting each other for some benefit. If I saw most of the weird combos that show up in Warmachine/Hordes while watching a movie, it would make for some very weird scenes. Like Nyss hunters killing Valachev to get Dougal McNaile's bonus that he gave to them earlier.

The combos make for very fun brain teasers in the game, but they're very anti-cinematic in my opinion. Please don't take this as a slam against Warmachine/Hordes. I know fans can get sensitive. I'm a fan too. I love the game. It's the game play that's more important. So, once in a while it's not cinematic, that's okay....no game perfectly covers everything.

[Hansel]

That's cool, Steam Pants. As a WM/H player, I don't care at all about cinematics. When I want cinematics I go to the cinema.

Seriously though, it's a game, and I enjoy it as a game experience, not as a cinematic one. If other people enjoy it for other reasons and have criticisms based on those reasons, that's totally cool, but it doesn't bother me one bit.