silly question about gun carriage

[wargolem]

On the card it says "Khador Cavalry Battle Engine" Does this mean it gets +2 to mat on the charge like other cavalry? Also can battle mechanics repair it?

[PG_LunarSol]

Yes. Yes. Also it can do ride by shooting, which is endlessly fun.

[wargolem]

on a ride by attack you have to make it to melee range of something before you can stop and shoot, correct?

[MediumYellow]

I don't think so, I believe that you can move forward, shoot and then move back if you want.

[wargolem]

you are correct I finally found it in the book. It says it can stop its movement at any time to make its combat action. Which would mean move shoot then move. Only problem would be do you move up 3 shoot then back 4 or move 4 shoot back 3 hehe. Nice thing about it is that you get to make all your attacks when you charge and trample and can make ranged while in melee.

Speaking of which, since it does not say gunfighter that means the ranged will have to target model outside of melee correct? (if it tramples or charges)

[Michael]

It can target models engaging it; the Gun Carriage (naturally) lacks Gunfighter but makes up for it by also not having a melee weapon, so it never engages other models.

Unfortunately, shooting at any models engaging your Gun Carriage will gain you that lovely "firing into melee" penalty. So yeah, don't try it.

<mini rant>
I first misread a few things and thought that the Gun Carriage was easily the most awesome battle engine out there. Then, one day, I re-read, re-re-read, and read "Trampling Hooves" and thought about it more carefully. I realized that we had no melee range because we lacked a melee weapon, which accounted for all of the extra (and, as I first thought, "unnecessary") rules on Trampling Hooves and lack of Gunfighter.

I then realized that bit above about "firing into melee" with models that are attacking the Gun Carriage, and that made me disappointed.

About a month and a half after that, I re-read "Tall in the Saddle" and realized that it only applies to melee attacks. I'd been using it for the cannons the whole time, and man, it was awesome! I felt really stupid after that, and I owe a few players an apology for getting that seriously wrong...

So, my estimation went from "Holy crap this is awesome!" to "Huh... This giant thing is kind of a very situational support piece that really isn't designed to kill anything." That made me sad.
<end mini rant>

So...yes.

[wargolem]

Michael I am not clear on your post. Even if you miss a model in melee, it is an AOE and will deviate so little that the target will still be in the AOE. If the target is an infantry model it will probably die. Also the trampling hooves should have a .5" melee range like every other horse in the game. Pg 61 prime - a mount weapon has a .5" melee range. So if you charge you are attacking at mat 8 and if you hit the target is knocked down. Then you auto hit with the cannons. Still not clear about why you are not happy with that.

[Tossy]

Can you charge and make the shots... as I read the card I thought you could only trample and shoot not charge and shoot

[wargolem]

it says "This model can make melee and ranged attacks in the same activation. When you make your initial melee attacks or a power attack, it can also make its initial ranged attacks. This model can make ranged attacks even while in melee."

I would think charging would be making initial melee attacks.

[rivenwyrm]

I would think charging would be making initial melee attacks.

And you would be correct.

[Havock]

Unfortunately, shooting at any models engaging your Gun Carriage will gain you that lovely "firing into melee" penalty. So yeah, don't try it.

Why not? if the offending enemy is squishy, the AOE's will flatten them whereas the GC will probably not give a damn.

[Michael]

Michael I am not clear on your post. Even if you miss a model in melee, it is an AOE and will deviate so little that the target will still be in the AOE. If the target is an infantry model it will probably die. Also the trampling hooves should have a .5" melee range like every other horse in the game. Pg 61 prime - a mount weapon has a .5" melee range. So if you charge you are attacking at mat 8 and if you hit the target is knocked down. Then you auto hit with the cannons. Still not clear about why you are not happy with that.

On the charge, yes, the impact attack is decent (if you can hit things with MAT 6, which I find iffy most of the time),, and a MAT 8 auto-knockdown is good, but the fact that we've got a Mount weapon whose damage roll can't be boosted makes it just a POW 12 with Knockdown. It's not bad, exactly, it's just...Seriously, fifteen tons of armored horse and carriage should mangle anything they hit, not just feel...lackluster. Something this freakin' big shouldn't be a piddly POW 12.

Mount attacks are not "melee weapons", and therefore cannot be used to make Free Strikes.

Mount has a 0.5" melee range, yes, and it makes melee attacks, yes, but nowhere is it specifically described as a "melee weapon". Therefore, while it might engage other models, you can't free strike with it... That makes the Gun Carriage pretty useless at tying up enemy models.

Seriously, though: if I am wrong about this, and something has changed since that link above, please tell me so. It would, at least, be a small consolation for me.

Why not? if the offending enemy is squishy, the AOE's will flatten them whereas the GC will probably not give a damn.

Well, I've never had an opponent try to tie a Gun Carriage up with anything squishy; that was my complaint. I'd definitely take copious amounts of joy out of someone trying to tie one up with a unit of Steelhead Halberdiers or something similar. Alas, no one ever does (for me).

[Jrandom36]

How do you get the knockdown part of it?

[Octavius_Maximus]

Trample and Impact attacks are both down with the Mount attacks.

[The Buoyancy of Water]

Just a sudden thought on the accuracy thing:

Anyone else going to be using this in Vlad3's tier list? I'm thinking Hand of Fate will pay off when you have so many attacks each turn!

Cheers,
Dave

[Shwan]

I just played my first game with my...Tweaked Gun Carriage yesterday.



I do say it was a blast. Kommandos' Strangle gas makes hitting a tad bit easier on living targets (it's only a matter of getting them to hit reliably!). I did get in trouble when it it got black oiled and surrounded by Nyss, then pDene feated. On the flipside it gave me a nice straight line of Nyss to flame with my flanking Torch, and it blew up a ton of them first round since they wanted to all hide in a forest. Between Occulation and Sentry it's a boon for Strakhov, along with the 14" charge on feat (awesome but unrealistic due to the insane large base!

Getting a Trample in with my Gun Tank is definitely on my Warmachine bucket list. That and getting a gator in a headlock with Behemoth.

[Digilante]

I get a trample in with the gun carraige every game I use it!

... on the first turn.

[TarlSS]

I don't think you can give it stealth.

[Michael]

I don't think you can give it stealth.

Yes, you can. Battle Engines cannot be slammed, pushed, thrown, knocked down, or made stationary, thanks to the Massive rule. They don't benefit from elevation, concealment, or cover, nor do forests or cloud effects block LOS to them.

However, nothing in the Battle Engine rules states that they cannot be granted Stealth.

Strakhov certainly has fun putting Occultation on my Gun Carriage from time to time!

Now, Colossals are another matter entirely. They can never gain Stealth (amongst other things).

[Aylw]

They are awesome. What's not to love about 2 pow 14 aoe 4" ROUGH TERRAIN patches? Add Sentry from Strakov, and that's 3 extra 4" aoe rough terrain - the damage is almost bonus.

Their close combat is situational; It's those lovely guns that make them shine.

And remember, they're cavalry, so kite them like a mofo.

[Goyder]

Looking foward to Vlad3 feat tricks with the Gun Carriage.

Gun Carriage is a great little unit. I love mine and use it when I can.

[Kurb]

I just played my first game with my...Tweaked Gun Carriage yesterday.



I do say it was a blast. Kommandos' Strangle gas makes hitting a tad bit easier on living targets (it's only a matter of getting them to hit reliably!). I did get in trouble when it it got black oiled and surrounded by Nyss, then pDene feated. On the flipside it gave me a nice straight line of Nyss to flame with my flanking Torch, and it blew up a ton of them first round since they wanted to all hide in a forest. Between Occulation and Sentry it's a boon for Strakhov, along with the 14" charge on feat (awesome but unrealistic due to the insane large base!

Getting a Trample in with my Gun Tank is definitely on my Warmachine bucket list. That and getting a gator in a headlock with Behemoth.

Where did you get your treads ?

[Shinji]

Shwan, the Gun Tank looks sweet.

[Shwan]

The Treads/Undercarriage bits came from a 40k Ork Battlewagon.

The Dozer blade came from a Lemun Russ tank, and the two stacks on the back are from the Behemoth.

[sliganian]

It can target models engaging it; the Gun Carriage (naturally) lacks Gunfighter but makes up for it by also not having a melee weapon, so it never engages other models.

Careful with that: a model without a melee weapon has no melee range and CANNOT charge.

I am pretty sure folks here have mentioned a Charge with the Gun Carriage...

[Dunvane]

The rule on the card, "Trampling Hooves," specifically states that the model can make charge attacks with the mount weapon, as well as make a melee attack with the mount weapon should the model already be in melee combat.