Two Fell Callers at 50?

[Vermithrax]

I'm playing a bit of Trollbloods these days and have been working on some 50 point lists.

Not sure if its a basic question for Troll players or not but since I'm new to the faction I figured I'd ask.

Is it common to see two Fell Callers in a 50 point list or do you usually only bring one?

[omerplata]

For me it depends on the infantry you are bringing, and how much. I usually run only 1 in 50 points, but I have dabbled with double caller in my emaddy list that runs fennblades longriders and burrowers. Having the 2 buffs makes the feat turn even more devastating.

I haven't really felt the need for 2 other than in that case, but I suppose if you are running really infantry heavy and want to be able to pass out more buffs then go for it.

At 75 points and higher I always take 2.

[Saraminss]

I think 2 fell callers can be useful at 50... I think any less points would certainly be too small to have 2 though

[Grim Wingus]

I ran 2 fell callers at 50 points just last night. It was a Borka list with two units of champions, so they were really valuable for giving out pathfinder to get my infantry up the table in some semblance of a hurry.
Also, in that one game, it meant that the round after pKreoss had feated at me, the survivors were all able to jump back up and get straight on with what they were doing.

[PG_Mr. Mayhem]

I've only used two in 35 with an EMadrak list so both Fennblades and Burrowers could have MAT buffs and with PGrissel in her tier list, just as beater solos.

[Goris]

This is an interesting subject. In the MKI days 2 Fell Callers was kind of standard. No he competes with other pieces and infantry. Not certain I would take 2, but it makes me think. I own 2, I might just give it a try.

[PG_Goldstep]

I'd go back up to Omerplata for the answer... how many units do you have?

With some of our five fury warlocks, we cannot use more than about 15 fury with of beasts before it all falls apart and even then holding it together is hard. So generally you'll have closer to 20 points of beasts and 35 points of warriors.

If you need to make sure that you can get past rough terrain with more than one unit at a time or want to insure the accuracy of more than one unit at a time, fell callers are the only real choice.

Beyond that, it will matter about your meta. If San Fran has been Kreoss Krazy lately (really any of the WM battleboxes) you might find that you need backups for your Revelry. Similarly if everyone has started to play tons of circle, even with only a few units pathfinder might be really important as your meta pushes to place 3 and a half square feet of trees on a 4 square foot board.

Then three months later when all you see is Epic Nemo and all he wants between you and him is space and opportunity and he can't knock you down but he can fry you pretty good, you might need to drop both fell callers to put in more bodies.

Personally, I have once or twice wished for a second fell caller, but even in a tournament, I usually find one to be enough. On rare occasion the one is nothing more than insurance against low rolls (like I'm going to miss a group of jamming banes anyway).

[The Happy Anarchist]

I frequently wish I had a second Fell Caller for my eMadrak lists, and pGrissel themes should almost always bring both Fell Callers. At 2 points they are stupidly good, even if you never use the Fell Calls themselves.

[Lawso42]

I play 2 fell callers frequently. Mostly with Madrak2, Jarl, Calandra (theme list), and occasionally Borka.

Lawso

[Biggre]

Fell Callers are legitimate threats on their own, valid rage/+2 damage buff targets. Not quite the as much damage as a Hero, but a LOT more versatility.

[PG_joedj]

One Fell Caller per infantry unit (Fenns, KWs, or Burrowers) at >35pts.
I use two in my 50pt troop heavy Madrak2 list. So good for the variety of effects you may need!

Last night one of my charging self War-Cryed Fell Callers finished off a Tenacity-ed Angelius. At MAT 9, 2 attacks, one 4d6, second 3d6 = pretty darn good accuracy and damage production!

[Brettman008]

I run two in my eMadrak list which runs Long Riders, Burrowers, Fenns and Cabers at 50 points. They're amazing utility solos that in addition to supporting your army have two attacks and a spray.

[Vermithrax]

Thanks all for the responses! I'm playing with eMadrak and had been running two with him. Your collective points about the number of units make sense. I'll keep both in the list.


PG_Goldstep: Its San Francisco. We never refer to it as San Fran

[PG_Mr. Mayhem]

PG_Goldstep: Its San Francisco. We never refer to it as San Fran

It's true.

[tallted]

They will never let you forget it either...

[PG_Goldstep]

I stand corrected.

Out of curiosity, the fact that you are pointing out that I abbrvtd your city's name wrong... is there another city that does call itself San Fran? Cause I decided to call it that when I thought you might not like me using the designation of Rice-a-roni-ville... :P

[PG_thegreatblah]

If I have more than one unit I will almost always consider bringing a second Fel Caller for the Mat Buff and the Pathfinder if necessary.

[Beckman]

I'm playing a bit of Trollbloods these days and have been working on some 50 point lists.

Not sure if its a basic question for Troll players or not but since I'm new to the faction I figured I'd ask.

Is it common to see two Fell Callers in a 50 point list or do you usually only bring one?

No. It is very uncommon that you would need two Fell Callers, even with infantry heavy casters. Two Fell Callers is too much redundant support. There are a lot of good 3-4 point options in terms of support.

1) Is it a list that can use Janissa? If so, then a second Fell Caller is certainly worse than her. But you may be playing character restricted, so onto the next one...
2) You're in an infantry heavy list - because you are considering two Fell Callers. Why not take Saxon Orrick - you can give your unit pathfinder AND +2 to hit. Why not take Viktor Pendrake? You can give your unit +1d6 to hit against beasts, which stacks with the +2 from the Fell Caller?
3) Runebearer: 1 Fury is really good for certain infantry casters, such as eMadrak, plus bouncing certain spells really makes the opponent pay. Quicken or Blood Fury, for instance.
4) More Troops. I'm assuming that you brought all that infantry for a reason... Your caster is probably doing something mean to make you want to bring all those troops... So bring more! 3 points is half a unit of Burrowers... so...
5) 3-4 point honorable mention: Min Krielstone Bearer and Stone Scribes + Stone Scribe Elder. Think Corrosion / Fire is annoying? Pay 4 points, and your caster gets a bump in survivability, and your troops/caster doesn't die to continuous fire. The min-KSB 3 point option isn't bad either, for certain casters.

Madrak Ironhide, World Ender (*5pts)
* Mulg the Ancient (12pts)
Kriel Warriors (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
* 2 Kriel Warrior Caber Thrower (2pts)
* Kriel Warrior Standard Bearer & Piper (2pts)
Pyg Burrowers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer (2pts)
Trollkin Long Riders (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Fell Caller Hero (3pts)
Horthol, Long Rider Hero (5pts)

Are you really going to cut Mulg to a Mauler in this list? or UAs/Weapon attachments in order to add a Fell Caller? If anything, the list screams for a Runebearer to cycle Blood Fury.It's not that Fell Callers are bad. It's that other stuff is generally better, since more than one Fell Call can't be used on the same unit. And you will not always want to buff two units. The second Fell Caller is generally less effective than the first.

[PG_thegreatblah]

No. It is very uncommon that you would need two Fell Callers, even with infantry heavy casters. Two Fell Callers is too much redundant support. There are a lot of good 3-4 point options in terms of support.

I think you are forgetting about the Fel Caller's offensive capability, with a small buff they go from really good to downright crazy. WHen you bring two of them, you can play them a bit more agressive because you don't have to worry as much about losing them.

[Beckman]

I think you are forgetting about the Fel Caller's offensive capability, with a small buff they go from really good to downright crazy. WHen you bring two of them, you can play them a bit more agressive because you don't have to worry as much about losing them.

I'm not forgetting about it. I would never bring a Fell Caller if they could only affect themselves. They're a worse version of a Man Hunter. Two POW10 Weaponmaster attacks on MAT9 or pathfinder with SPD6 is for 3 points is less than good. Yes, you could run two of them and run each of them more aggressively - but then the opponent would have the option of trying to kill both.. which would deprive you of buffs while you still need them.

I guess I prefer to keep my support as mostly support. If you do take two of them, you're almost forced to make at least the second Fell Caller a melee / spray attack piece if you take the other one.. and I dislike putting an expensive support piece in that position. I don't take Champs for 2 points/model. It almost feels like I'm taking a single champ... for 3 points. And a buff that I may or may not need (generally not, at least for my lists). I'd almost always rather take other support pieces... Unless your meta has A LOT of high DEF infantry. Even then, I might think of another solution than taking the second caller.

(To be clear, I do own two and I would probably run a second in an infantry heavy 75. At that point level, both callers would have enough units to buff such that they would never be without a useful buff target until the lategame)

[xxlnaga]

I have had success running a second fell caller with a unit of longriders on a flank, mainly to give them pathfinder. One of the awesome things about the fell caller is that you don't have to choose between fell calls and charging or yelling at the enemy to die, so metal.

[Grim Wingus]

I have had success running a second fell caller with a unit of longriders on a flank, mainly to give them pathfinder.

That's my 10 point reinforcements for one of my lists at the UK Masters this weekend. Encouraging to know someone else thinks it's a good idea.

[Beckman]

That's my 10 point reinforcements for one of my lists at the UK Masters this weekend. Encouraging to know someone else thinks it's a good idea.

I think that's a good idea - It's not like putting Saxon in that list is good - you save a point, but you can't spend it on anything but one point fillers.. And your own Fell Caller will not likely be in a place to Fell Call the Cav... So it's a convenient choice, I think. It works well with the Cav, since they're going to be away from your main force.

[The Happy Anarchist]

I'm not forgetting about it. I would never bring a Fell Caller if they could only affect themselves. They're a worse version of a Man Hunter. Two POW10 Weaponmaster attacks on MAT9 or pathfinder with SPD6 is for 3 points is less than good. Yes, you could run two of them and run each of them more aggressively - but then the opponent would have the option of trying to kill both.. which would deprive you of buffs while you still need them.

I guess I prefer to keep my support as mostly support. If you do take two of them, you're almost forced to make at least the second Fell Caller a melee / spray attack piece if you take the other one.. and I dislike putting an expensive support piece in that position. I don't take Champs for 2 points/model. It almost feels like I'm taking a single champ... for 3 points. And a buff that I may or may not need (generally not, at least for my lists). I'd almost always rather take other support pieces... Unless your meta has A LOT of high DEF infantry. Even then, I might think of another solution than taking the second caller.

(To be clear, I do own two and I would probably run a second in an infantry heavy 75. At that point level, both callers would have enough units to buff such that they would never be without a useful buff target until the lategame)

They aren't only for themselves though. Plus you are forgetting the extra durability and the spray. The ability to Pathfind or more often War Cry two units is money in an infantry heavy list.

[Beckman]

They aren't only for themselves though.

... Right, but counting their buff on themselves and saying they're a great solo is kindof also not true.

Plus you are forgetting the extra durability and the spray.

Stealth >> Durability, at least from where I'm standing.. And I'm not even saying that I want a Man Hunter in my Khador lists... apart from certain casters, like eVlad... where he destroys lives.

The ability to Pathfind or more often War Cry two units is money in an infantry heavy list.

This certainly can be true. I dislike paying for the 2nd Fell Caller rather than extra troops or different support, such as the Runebearer. I would put it on par with the Stone Scribe Chronicler - a model that I just for some reason always feels like it's not pulling its weight... because something always ignores concealment, and I can't roll a tough roll to save my own life...

Like most things is Trolls, if you take models that people generally agree that they're good and throw them in a list in any random quantity, they'll work OK. That Fell Caller is taking the place of more troops, a defensive buff for your caster, or a Champ Hero - a model that I do not take often, but that I would still take.. without Champions.. over a second Fell Caller at 50 points barring some unusual circumstance.

I would say that it's a free country, but it's not. Play the models I want you to, or I will find you and burn the offending models in a fire.

[The Happy Anarchist]

I still disagree.

In the specific context of a list with 3 or more infantry units, I still say the second Fell Caller is likely going to be a better choice than the extra troops/chronicler/what have you. I have had to many games where I needed pathfinder over here and there, or +2 Mat over here and there, or pick up those models over here and give those ones +2 Mat.

In the specific context of that kind of infantry heavy list, specifically a melee heavy list, having the option to go all in and have two units buffed up is incredible. Especially when Burrowers are almost assuredly requiring the +2 Mat every turn they go in.

The eMadrak list that makes me wish I had the second Fell Caller already has the Runebearer, doesn't need the chronicler and 3 points more troops would not be as useful as the double Fell Caller. The pGrissel theme is the other one that makes me want the two Fell Callers, but they are 2 points and that is cheating.