Your Thoughts on Proxies?

[Coinlord]

What are your thoughts on playing with or against proxies?
Personally, I enjoy being able to add variety to my army, but for the sake of my opponent's sanity, i try to keep it at a two model max. And though it hasn't come up in this game, in other games, as long as the model resembles what it's supposed to be, i'm fine with it. Durgen, for instance, should be a dwarf.
Also, not interested in tourney rules, i'm just looking for honest opinions.

[PG_Duckboy]

I allow them to a certain extent. I, from time to time, break a model or its at home so i proxy for it, BUT I always ask my opponent first. Usually, it is no problem, If it is, I will gladly switch my list up to take appropriate models.

[Ulsif]

Being new, and having a lot of new players I do not mind proxies if they have the right stats for the unit, and they tell me ahead of time. Usually it is someone who wants to try a combo before spending the money on a certain jack or solo. Now after a few months they are still proxing the same unit, then I will remind them it is time to have the actual unit.

[Chopsworth]

I make quite the effort into making a set of Searforge proxies that were double sided, color coded, to scale cutouts of actual minis mounted on foamcore. I was unemployed at the time you see and dropping a few hundred into a new game was not an option. At the time no one had any problems since I was a new player and I went to great lengths to make accurate proxies instead of just circle cutouts labeled 'Some illegible dudes name #5'. Over the period of the next few months I invested in full metal for my whole collection. I do still have a boot box full of 200+ points of Paper Pirate Proxies for when someone feels up to taking on the Talion Charter.

Frankly though I understand people might be wanting to try out something new before they buy or much like my situation before be unable to afford a slew of new models and in those circumstances I'm totally copacetic with proxies. Now, on the other hand if there is a player that week after week keeps playing with little pieces of paper and has no desire to invest in the game than no - off mah table.

[PG_n00buaddib]

In a casual enviroment, I'm all for proxies. Sometimes you just wanna try out something silly (10+ Chargers with eNemo), sometimes you're trying out new/unreleased models which you're not 100% sure fit your playstyle/army. Not like we don't buy those minis sooner or later anyway.

[Dais]

As long as I can tell what I am looking at and it is on the correct base, I'm ok with almost anything.
I think this gets a bit more restrictive in a tournament with timed turns. You don't have time to misinterpret what you see or take back a couple of activations when the clock is running.
Still, I support creativity with thought put into it.

[PG_TheEmu]

In normal, casual/semi-competitive local gaming, proxying is just fine, as long as both players remember which model is which. Usually it's one or two models/units ("these stormlances are long riders and laddermore represent Horthol..."), but if it's easy to remember ("all light warjacks in Nemo2's battlegroup are chargers"), a larger number is just fine.

In a tournament it's naturally a no-go, unless he has a really good reason. .)

[Tiran]

I don't mind some proxying, but there is a limit. I have arrived at a table to be told something like: "Kreoss is actually eFeora, those Cinerators are Bastions, this Crusader is the Avatar..." I let the game go on, the guy is a friend, but it makes it rather hard to take in the battlefield at a glance when you're trying to remember what everything is all the time.
I think most everyone I'll proxy just a little, but I try to make sure the models are at least superficially similar enough not to confuse too much and keep it to one or two things at a time.

[2LiveIs2Die]

Not in tourneys.
Other than that I don't care in the least.

[Skylifter]

Well, I do like seeing beautifully painted, accurate models on a tabletop with gorgeous terrain... but that isn't as important as having a fun game. So yeah, I don't mind a few proxies, either.
Only as long as it's easy to remember, though - this is a brain-intensive game, after all, and when I need all that brain power to remember your 10 different proxies, I haven't got enough left to actually play, so there is a limit to the number of proxies I can handle. But then again, maybe I'll not need as much brain when I get more practice.

[func]

I dont like playing against proxies but i can live with it, aslong as the model looks abit like what it is. Unpainted models bugg me the most. Hate it :-)

[HRM]

I don't mind clearly labeled empty bases. Oddly enough, I have more of an issue with "These Assault Kommandoes are Nyss Hunters."

[MagnustheJust]

In a casual enviroment, I'm all for proxies. Sometimes you just wanna try out something silly (10+ Chargers with eNemo), sometimes you're trying out new/unreleased models which you're not 100% sure fit your playstyle/army. Not like we don't buy those minis sooner or later anyway.

More or less this...

[gaminguy]

Every time this thread pops up I point out that the more a model looks like the thing it's proxying for the easier it is to forget it's a proxy. If I want a Raider and I proxy my Savage for it that's easy to forget, my gunboar not so much.

Personaly I only proxy models that haven't been released yet, if I could own one and I want to field it I think I owe it to PP to actually buy the model. If I've had the rules for 4 months and the model is still barely on the horizon all bets are off.

[Devstro]

I guess I'll be "that guy."

I don't care that other people use them in games they are playing that don't involve me. Have fun. Don't let me stop you. I just don't like them in games I am playing in. I won't use them and I'd prefer not playing against them. I'd really appreciate being asked before a match if someone is using a proxy. I don't like it when people just put them on the table without asking. All that being said, I haven't EVER turned away a game because someone was using a proxy. I know it wasn't asked, but perhaps it may provide context to my personal anti-proxy position: I only ever field fully painted and finished models. I love the tight rules and game play that Warmachine has to offer, but at the end of the day it is still a miniatures game, so I'm largely here for the cool visuals.

[*SQUEE*]

As long as it is not confusing (all his stuff is proxie) and it's not in a tournament I have no issue.

[DoctorEvil]

Shouldn't there be some sort of proxy etiquette?

Simple rules like "Always ask your opponent if they mind if you proxy" or "Don't proxy against complete strangers".

[NotInKansas1911]

The worst we have ever done is use 3 trolls as Pain Wracks, but that is pretty obvious, dontcha think?

Usually friends hvae subbed a wold for Megalith or Ironclad for Ol' Rowdy. If its similar enough, its not that big of a deal for friendly games.

[solkan]

I don't mind clearly labeled empty bases. Oddly enough, I have more of an issue with "These Assault Kommandoes are Nyss Hunters."

I agree with this. A blank base with a cardboard standee on it and the words "Assault Kommando" written there will cause a lot less confusion (and require a lot less effort to remember) than a randomly selected model.

So why not choose the option where everyone does less work?

[Chip]

Shouldn't there be some sort of proxy etiquette?

Simple rules like "Always ask your opponent if they mind if you proxy" or "Don't proxy against complete strangers".

Pretty much this - there's no hard and fast rule, and a lot of it has to do with how the question is asked - "Mind if I use this base as Mulg?" will get you a better result than "These Shocktroopers are Demo Corps!"

[Leprousy]

Proxies are fine for trying something out before buying it. A really good conversion or scratch built that clearly embraces the concept of the original is fine also. Tourneys are clearly a no go, although I once talked a TO into allowing a proxy on an event that ran long. I wanted to enter the model in the con painting challenge. Good thing he let me, since I beat out all the 40k players for top prize with that model.

[hardygun]

Prefer not to proxy except for emergencies (dammit Whyshnallyr and Rupert, why were you in the foam I left at home?!) or for a few select models. I like to use eMagnus interchangeably for p and eMagnus, because the sculpt looks cool. I always ask my oppent's permission first and am prepared to use the normal fig if my opponent insists. The other fig I like to proxy is NQ Eiryss for p or eEiryss, because it looks cool. Once again only with opponents permission and fully prepared to use it as pEiryss if my opponent insists. And now I have to add the resculpt of pCain to this list :P

[Defenstrator]

We don't make a habit of proxying in our group but everyone does it now and then. Who doesn't want to try before they buy right?

[PG_Caecus Scius]

I own just about every model for my 3 factions that i regularly play, and i still have to proxy from time to time in casual games. sometimes u forget a model at home.

There is a kid at my LGS, he is super bright *but most people would say very annoying* and he doesn't have the means to play WM/H. He is like 8 or 9, and can just about quote you any rule from the books he has read... very bright kid. However after 50000 demo games with him, he started trying to play by proxying models. However his proxies are always just bases with a peice of paper with the name of the model scratched on it. Most people don't enjoy that... its too much. One model acting as another because you wanted to try it out... or because you forgot it... sure, if we are playing for fun that will likely only make both of us have fun.

[RidetheLightning]

Being new, and having a lot of new players I do not mind proxies if they have the right stats for the unit, and they tell me ahead of time. Usually it is someone who wants to try a combo before spending the money on a certain jack or solo. Now after a few months they are still proxing the same unit, then I will remind them it is time to have the actual unit.

Love this. Thank you. That is all.

[exalt me]

Honest opinion: I hate proxies. I won't use them and I'm not likely to enjoy a game playing against someone using them. It just cheapens the whole experience for me.

[budget boards]

I for one am all for proxies, my three year old not only eats cheerios like they are going out of production, but he also ate my entire gaming budget. Proxies are a good way to exercise some risk management in building your army. There is a limit though, i once played a guy who was switching from khador to retribution and played for a couple of weeks using his khador as ret proxies, that got old.

[Karl Eller]

I'm ok with proxies in casual games, with two conditions:
1) Ask first. This should be very obvious, but it needs to be stated.
2) The less the proxy looks like it fits in, the better. It seems kind of odd, but if you're using say a Juggernaut to proxy Beast 09, I'm likely to forget and go "ok, that's a Juggernaut", but if you're using a Titan Gladiator to proxy for Beast 09, it stands out enough that I remember easily. If you're using a certain model to proxy something (eg using Shocktroopers as Demo Corps), make sure you're not also using the same models/units in the game (unit A is Shocktroopers, unit B is Demo Corps is a no-no).

[Sacredsouless]

As long as it is not confusing (all his stuff is proxie) and it's not in a tournament I have no issue.

Shouldn't there be some sort of proxy etiquette?

Simple rules like "Always ask your opponent if they mind if you proxy" or "Don't proxy against complete strangers".

This, together. I don't mind proxies, and I'll ask if someone else is alright with them before I pull them out. If they aren't, w/e, I got a couple lists made that run well so I don't need the proxies. Really I'm not bothered at all.

[Hansel]

Basically, what DocEvil said.

I haven't ever used one, but theoretically I might, as I'm not against it. I'm not against playing with folks who play with proxies, either. However, I do think there's some common-sense etiquette around proxies that should be used: ASK, before the game, if it's OK if you use proxies. If your opponent is cool, s/he'll let you, but don't assume. It's only polite to ask.

[Lanz]

I allow for proxies depending on how casual the game is, who I'm playing against, and what I'm playing for. And how often it's done. The more relaxed the game, the less I care. I've gone against pretty much entirely-proxied armies on some occations, and used an almost entirely-proxied list myself (because I don't own 8 Repenters).

[PG_Deranith]

I'd prefer people have the models, painted with at least an attempt at basing. That said, I'd also prefer to be independently wealthy and able to sit at home all day building, painting, and playing WM/H all day. I don't mind proxies in casual play at all because I want people to enjoy the game. Not being able to try something new out, being able to get a model immediately (unreleased model or FLGS hasn't gotten an order in yet), or forgetting a model at home are all things that decrease people's enjoyment of the game that can be resolved by proxying with very little fuss.

[Dashwood]

What are your thoughts on proxying versions of casters like pKaya for eKaya? I prefer my old metal pKaya model (I lovingly painted that thing back in MkI), but like the eKaya stats better. So long as her giant hound is with her, I'm hoping it's fairly obvious.

Also I have plans on using regular trollbloods with Boomhowler's crew so I can have a Boomhowler and co with 100% unique figures (no doubles). So long as they all have the same weapons and are trolls, it should be fine, right?

[PG_RunTyme]

As most people have mentioned, I don't have a problem with proxies if they are for someone trying out something new or for grins and giggles. The only time I allow it in tournaments around here is if we have had a hard time sourcing the model. Sometimes it takes us 2 months to get a particularly hot model or new one. In this case I know the people are trying to buy it but have had no luck via any of our normal sources.

Just my 2c.

-Stan

[Zembar]

Tournaments would be a no go, but I'm fine with proxies in casual, within reason. If you have more than a unit or model or two proxied in I probably say no. But I don't mind you wanting to try out 1 or 2 new things in a game before buying them.

All proxies I've played against are either models that my opponent is working on painting up and aren't fully assembled(I played a game against Cryx who had a based base with no model on it for a jack, as he had completed the base work, but the model was still being painted) or the model is purchased, but hasn't arrived yet and the person really wants to use it. And the only proxies I've use are the first category, I had the model, just hadn't been able to fully assemble it (most recent was the Menoth Battle Engine. Just stuck the wheels on the base for that game.)

[Lachlan the Mad]

The only time I've ever very nearly proxied was a Nephilim Soldier for a Nephilim Bolt Thrower. This was in a store tournament, and the store hadn't been able to order a Bolt Thrower, because their stockist was out. Unfortunately it was on Mother's Day, and my family demanded that I do family things instead of Hordes things.

[Ysthrall]

the concept of "as long as it's very different" is an interesting one. Because on the one hand it means you won't forget that that isn't what it seems to be, on the other hand it... jars...

I'd rather face something that looks similar to what it's proxying. I'd rather play against Beast-09 proxied by a Juggernaut than by the Avatar. I'd rather play against Nyss Hunters proxied by Blighted Nyss archers than by Long Gunners. Because then you can look at the proxies and get some idea of their battlefield roles, in those "quick assessment glances" across the battlefield, which you can't with Wracks proxied by trolls...

Where I have proxied, I think I've used the crew of Storm Towers for Stormcallers (same base size, uniforms, hair, colours). I've used Hunters fro Minutemen and Centurion for an Avenger (same base size, colour, chassis).

Where it's been something big and important, I've built one somehow. I scratchbuilt a Stormstrider (it wobbled a lot) and I built a Stormwall Collossal out of Lego. They weren't exactly what the finished model looked like, but they really couldn't be mistaken for anything else!

[Earthcrosser599]

I'd proxy some of the jankier lists, like Mordikaar Void Spirit spam, or similar things I'd want to test a few times before buying a bunch of guys I may never use outside of tiers. If one of my opponents wants to proxy something I'm 100% cool with it.

[citcit4]

I just got e alexia a thrall warrior and 3 risen from a recent sr. What do you think about me using the risen as extra thralls, i'll probably put swords on them.
-thanks

[doom_reaver]

I've no problem with someone proxying for experimental purposes etc. but I have to say it gets a bit annoying when you see the same proxy model becoming a staple of someones army for weeks and months on end without any effort to procure the actual model.