Grayle the Farstrider

[Dawnlord]

Hey all,

I want to play Grayle the Farstrider more, but I have some questions:

- What Units work well with him?

- How to best use his spell list?

- What other beasts should I use?

So far this is what I've got.

Grayle the Farstrider
Warpwolf Stalker
Gorax
Woldwarden
Max Wolves of Orboros
Wolves of Orboros UA

Thanks,

[txiab]

For some thoughts see here and here and here.

[null_sheen]

I think we should all petition Privateer Press to add a search function to the forums i think it would make everyones life easier

[Cryx eats horde]

the white bar in the top right bro^

[Dawnlord]

I understand that I can search but as you can see I've already got some
of the models that work well with him. I was just looking for some added input. As for spell usage thanks for the link that helps alot also makes me want to a Gallows groves for Gallows! This is my current 50pt list.

Grayle
Warpwolf Stalker
Gorax
Woldwarden
Max Wolves and UA
Max Tharn Ravagers and UA
Morriag
Revee Hunter
War Wolf
2x Gallows Groves
Blackclad Wayfarer
Shifting Stones

I like it should be fast enough to hit first hit hard and get out. What do ya think?

[ToughRolls00]

Why would you bring two Groves with Grayle? I didnt think he had very good offensive spells.

[Dawnlord]

For Arcing that way I can move units around with Gallows where I need to I may reduce this to just one and add a war wolf but not sure yet.

[Blaque]

Gallows is actually a spell I think worth arcing. Grayle often if he's not going into the frey doesn't have much to do with his fury a lot I find, and sometimes a good Gallows can pull the rug from an opponent's feet by dragging in a heavy quite nicely.

My current list with him of late:
Grayle, the Farstrider
- Feral Warpwolf
- Gorax
- Warpwolf Stalker
Blackclad Wayfarer x2
Druid Wilder
Gallows Grove x2
Lord of the Feast
Shifting Stones
Shifting Stones + UA
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew
Tharn Wolf Riders (Max)

I run the list more or less as a bunch of self-sufficient super solos with good hit-and-run and a feat that after I've broken what I could of my enemy, protects my army from the shooting and lets me reposition. I take the warbeasts that simply get the job done best (Feral for Ghetorix if he's free), and not bother cycling Storm Rager unless I feel it will help a bit. Most of the time, I put it on the Lord of the Feast turn one, cause what havoc I can with him, and then pull it back to Grayle when the Lord inevitably dies. Grayle himself zooms in-and-out of combat, and generally acts as a melee support guy who's tough enough to survive mid-field.

And stuff.

[CircleGirl]

No, thats true. Gallows is totally worth arcing. Its just that the Groves always are the first thing that someone targets when they are making their first couple moves. They die quickly and take up some room that you could use for other models that could cause more damage, especially when running a melee caster like Grayle. I see what you are doing, and with gallows it would be a heck of a lot of fun. I just think that I would use the points for something else.

[Patuljak]

I think the whole concept of Woldwarden because of Gallows is a trap a lot of people fall into. Sure, grabbing casters and heavies with Gallows to get caster kills/alpha strikes is cool, but Grayle doesn't perform that well in the control game. His other spells, innate combat abilities and feat support a play style of alpha strike them as hard as you can and sneak a casterkill through the gap you created. Going for control means spending points on Wardens/Druids to support a boostable RAT6 D6 pull (and let's not talk about how gimmicky D6 distance is..), with the added problem that they do not synergize with his other abilities. Feat enables crooked corners and alpha strike threats. It doesn't buy you turns, like Krueger or Baldur feat and other spells do. Hit em as hard as you can works far better, especially because Grayle himself is so good in combat, with sneakiness and durability built in as well. He can slip through the front lines to kill off crucial models, and when in the midst look for an opportunity to assasinate. In that phase, Gallows comes in handy, but only because you can cast it from Grayle who can pretty much get anywhere to get it off at any angle, which is when you deliver a heavy, a ravager unit or a Storm Rager'd solo for a kill. You don't win by sitting in front of their army and shuffle their stuff without killing anything because you'll get slaughtered for your lack of punch.

Grayle doesn't delay. He punches stuff open. My personal advice is, don't focus on control models, focus on stuff that's fast, accurate and can hit hard. Use the alpha strike to kill off as much as you can and get Grayle in the middle of your army, protected by everything being tarpitted and relying on transfers and DEF15/ARM18 to survive. If you hit them hard enough at the right spots, they won't be able to stop you from delivering a caster kill next turn.

Anyway, to stop rambling, models that worked best for me:

Warpwolves for hitting power and speed.

Gorax, to transform them into caster killers.

Wolf Riders, fast, reasonably accurate, and benefit greatly from Stealth with feat if you use them to skirmish on feat turn and assault in the next.

Ravagers, because they actually deliver with feat and Stealth. Don't listen to people who say they don't hit hard enough, POW15 with 3d6 is plenty for medium infantry, which is what they are. They have great MAT as well.

LOTF (and at least 1 unit of Shifting Stones), because with a potential teleport and 3" move, followed by a tresher and boosted raven into whatever is freaking awesome. And he has MAT 10, ARM 19 and 8 boxes to back it up (Storm Ragered of course). He will wreak havoc, then die, which is when Grayle gets Storm Rager.

Morraig, because Storm Rager turns him into one-shot a caster wonder missile of doom. Don't bother putting SR on him if you're not doing it for the MAT boost though, because 2 more POW is a waste of Grayle's +2ARM when you're rolling 4d6. A trick someone suggested awhile back was Lightning Striking him and charging something, then moving 13" (sprint + light cav) behind the enemy lines. If their caster is turtling in the back, that's a pretty serious threat.

This is my current list in case you're interested:

Grayle the Farstrider
~Gorax
~Winter Argus
~Ghetorix
~Warpwolf Stalker
Shifting Stones
~Stone keeper
Tharn Ravagers (Leader and 5 Grunts)
~Tharn Ravager Chieftain
Blackclad Wayfarer
Gallows Grove
Lord of the Feast
Wolflord Morraig

The Winter Argus is something I'm tinkering with. With Storm Rager and Winter Coat, Grayle is DEF15 ARM20, which has enabled him to survive a LOT (he even tanked a fully buffed Avatar, although he needed two transfers for it).

[Dawnlord]

Thanks for the great feedback!

I had debated the Winter Argus for the same reasons. I like most of my list though I'm now debating wether to keep the Warden or replace it with a feral?

[Blaque]

The list above I posted was 5pts short, I just noticed. I am running him with a Woldwyrd of late since that fills it, but I find the Winter Argus hasn't been a terrible thing to put in for the points. Needs more testing, but making him DEF/ARM 15/20 with three transfers is a pretty respectiable spot to be for a warlock.

On Feral v. Woldwarden, I would advocate the Feral. I see nothing wrong with just bringing self-sustaining hitting power and durability myself.

And stuff.

[Patuljak]

I'm actually beginning to like the Winter Argus in general. People tend to ignore him as he's pretty hard to kill at DEF 15, which allows him to get into weird spots and drop his sprays on stuff that would rather he didn't. He's great at clearing models that engage your frontline and with two sprays and three Fury you're going to hit what you want even if your RAT is terrible (god forbid you crit a caster). He also gets the warpath move on feat turn, giving him a hefty 16" threat on sprays. Just saying, give him a whirl before you dismiss him as "not terrible I suppose".

His spray killed Kaelyssa today, although Morraig did knock most of her health down first.

[Kuarnix]

Definitely get the Lord of the Feast and a set of Shifting Stones. I tend to go second very often, either by choice or by poor rolls.....but, if your opponent advances meaningfully, you'll get the Lord in there on the first turn. With Storm Rager. I've gotten a couple of caster kills on the bottom of the first round this way (my opponents weren't thinking and put 3-4 infantry models, their warlock/warcaster, and low def model or some combination thereof in close proximity). I've also failed to do that a lot of times, but usually taking out a some core infantry near the back, or support solos, and/or putting damage on the caster is totally worth it for me.

[Cyryst]

Best list Ive made with Grayle so far is 2 wardens and Megalith + stuff. Trampling wolds with awareness throwing fully boosted gallows onto warcasters has netted more kills than it should have and if it doesn't it has pulled the caster far enough forward that a shifted LoTF with storm rager can raven up and finish the job.
Im also glad to hear echos of what I said on release about 2 models, the Grove: is the first thing to die and not always a solid 1 point investment and the Winter Argus: is a hard to kill utility piece that is well worth its 5 points, + a crit freeze followed up by a chain attack smite will put anything out of commission for a turn as it still has to forfeit even after shaking.

[Asdrubael]

The idea of using tharn units (ravagers and wolfriders) with Grayle is something I definitely hadn't considered. Really interesting points. This definitely deserves a play test. Very interesting. I also really want to try the Winter Argus. I somehow believe in the thing. Wish I could say the same for the griffin.

[Blaque]

Griffon is made for Flank scenarios I feel. It'll do actually pretty solid for Grayle with that in mind I find, and a few other casters. I actually like it more than the Winter Argus since it's more than an animus slave and has better stats too, you just need to think ofit as a utility piece more than another torpedo. Which si fine, since lights as pure offensive models besides the Gorax and Basilisk Drake, I feel, are often useless in the big scheme of things.

And stuff.

[jdeckert]

One good thing about gallows groves that doesn't get mentioned a lot is the anti-healing ability. I've had that win a game for me. Sure it's short range, but tough or self-sacrifice can be a huge pain for Grayle, the whitemane, and the LOTF, so if you can prevent them it can be amazing. While it's short range, I've been able to get it off a surprising number of times.

I think the warden is great with him. Geomancied gallows is good and all, but geomancy storm rager is really nice and the kill-stuff-pop-a-forest-and-sprint-behind-it trick with Grayle is good.

I like the bloodtrackers and Nuala with him. The ravagers have done surprising well for me with him, too. Either side of the feat can be really good for them.

[Bradigus]

At 35 I like Grayle
Stalker
Feral
Wolves of Orboros (max)
+ UA
Morraig
Shifting Stones + UA
Lord of the Feast
Druid Wilder

Lord of the Feast gets SR and starts inside the shifting stones. I find myself popping my feat turn 2 and using the Lord's attacks to generate movement to increase threat ranges for my beasts, Wolves and Morraig.

Morraig with SR in the backfield is ridiculously good. I've had opponents turn 1/2 their army around to deal with him. Lightning Strike + Light Cav movement is AWESOME... Even better if you can add in feat movement.

[Griffin745]

I think the whole concept of Woldwarden because of Gallows is a trap a lot of people fall into. Sure, grabbing casters and heavies with Gallows to get caster kills/alpha strikes is cool, but Grayle doesn't perform that well in the control game. His other spells, innate combat abilities and feat support a play style of alpha strike them as hard as you can and sneak a casterkill through the gap you created.

Surely Gallows helps to create that gap you sneak a 'caster kill through? I mean, when going for the assassination why worry about killing something when you can just yank it out of the way? And Pulling things towards you helps to get the alpha strike, as in, Lightning Strike Stalker goes at a heavy you pulled out (and hopefully did a bit of damage to) trashes it and retreats? I think Gallows is a good spell for Grayle.

As a second note the 'warden isn't only in a list to use Gallows, he can help cycle Storm Rager about, has an animus that pairs up nicely with Grayles in-built sprint and his chain attack has helped set up a few assassinations for me as a slam that I can aim far easier than just slamming normally. All told the Woldwarden and Grayle work together and Grayle is one of the few 'locks I reach for a regular 'warden before I do Megalith. Barring in character restricted formats.

[Patuljak]

The thing is, you're paying 9 points for a Woldwarden. Each warden is less wolves, so yeah you can Gallow a heavy out and then TRY to kill it with a Lightning Striked Stalker (what are you going to trigger sprint on if you're just harassing? You pulled him out remember, probably no models near). Not to mention low numbers on the D6. And that kind of list also suffers if it gets swarmed.
Building lists around Woldwardens doesn't work I feel because it isn't flexible enough. Not a lot of hitting power, less good animi, no answer to high ARM, no answer to casters camping way back, no answer to swarming, to infantry hordes. It's just a better point-to-output investment to get some Groves and look for opportunistic Gallows from himself. Too many things limit him from being a Gallows caster, IMO.

Of course, if it works for you, great. But I play in a highly competitive meta and it doesn't work for me the way other lists do.

[LoserX]

Perhaps you gentelmen would be kind enough to enlighten me on useing a Gallows Grove to channel Gallows: Does the target get pulled towards the Grove or towards Grayle?

[Gobos]

the target is pulled towards Grove.

[Griffin745]

Building lists around Woldwardens doesn't work I feel because it isn't flexible enough. Not a lot of hitting power, less good animi, no answer to high ARM, no answer to casters camping way back, no answer to swarming, to infantry hordes. It's just a better point-to-output investment to get some Groves and look for opportunistic Gallows from himself. Too many things limit him from being a Gallows caster, IMO.

You see I think we have crossed wires here, I'm not saying that you need to base the list on 'wardens and that he is a Gallows caster in the same way that the Stormlord is. I'm saying that it is a very useful tool in creating the oppertunities that Grayle as a 'lock thrives on.

For example:
Grayle the Farstrider
Gorax
Feral Warpwolf
Warpwolf Stalker
Woldwarden

2x Shifting Stones (1w/UA)
Max Wolves of Orboros (w/UA)

Blackclad Wayfarer
Lord of the Feast
Wolf Lord Morraig

This is an example of a standard list for me, three heavies and one just happens to be a 'warden. The other two are Warpwolves with the Gorax in there because he just needs to be. So, hitting power? Check. Good animi? Check. Answers to swarming? Check. Infantry Hordes? Check. Casters hiding in the backfield? Check.

Basically it is a list that uses a 'warden, but it's not the peice that does the heavy lifting. I will always turn to the Warpwolves for that but having the 'warden on hand to pull a target into the waiting clutches of one of the wolves, cycle Storm Rager between Grayle, Morraig or the Lord and to give Grayle an animus that can give him a bit of cover and allow him to get a bit more breathing room out of his sprint move. Yeah, to me the 'warden fits in well with the Farstrider, but no you can't sacrifice the hitting power of the wolves just to fit one in.

[Blaque]

Might be heresy about, I actually think Wolves of Orboros with him are a trap. Other than his feat and Elite Cadre, he does nothing for them. And I find casters who don't continually provide "not dying" support for Wolves of Orboros, loses them fairly fast agaisnt most things. I use Wolfriders, Bloodtrackers, or Bloodweavers myself instead. Better survivability means with him they'll do more and kill more.

And stuff.

[jdeckert]

I'm with Blaque on the WoO, both generally and with Grayle. Maybe its my meta, but 13/13 infantry without any survival trick almost always goes down without accomplishing anything. If the terrain is such that there's a handy forest to hide behind, and your opponent doesn't have hunter, then they can do okay. I just don't see big forests in the middle of the field much.

[Blaque]

Now they have a good spot with some casters, meta or opponent willing I think. For instnace, Morvahna I find that if you aren't as worried about anti-upkeep, they do amazingly good with Regrowth on them, as it effectively just sets up more charges over and over and over. It's what I run with her at 35pts. They also aren't shabby with Kaya1, or Cassius.

But that said, all and all, not Grayle.

And stuff.

[Brandubh]

I'd like to make a note for the permanent record that Grayle assassinated my Kromac at Origins when I foolishly parked Kromac behind about 5" of forest. Grayle cast Awareness and the Feral Warpwolf warped for Ghostly (he also had a Pureblood). It didn't take much to kill Kromac from there.

As far as I know, this was the first time in written history that Grayle has cast Awareness.

[Patuljak]

I'd like to make a note for the permanent record that Grayle assassinated my Kromac at Origins when I foolishly parked Kromac behind about 5" of forest. Grayle cast Awareness and the Feral Warpwolf warped for Ghostly (he also had a Pureblood). It didn't take much to kill Kromac from there.

As far as I know, this was the first time in written history that Grayle has cast Awareness.

I actually used it once to park a Stalker in the middle of a unit of satyxis. It was **** for my opponent, but drool inciting for me.

About the Woldwarden, we can agree to disagree. I still think he's not worth his points or/and the utalitarian beast slot (I'd much rather have a Pureblood for the animus with Grayle&LOTF or cut points and get a Winter Argus and flesh out stuff), but hey.

[mercury]

@Patuljak: you clearly have a decent amount of experience using Grayle. I've just bought him and would like to take him to a 35-point Tournament in a couple of months time. What would you advise for a 35-point list? There are no character restrictions at the Tournament, so anything is fair game.

I was tinkering with:

Grayle:
- Warpwolf Stalker
- Megalith
- Druid Wilder
Shifting Stones
6 Blood Trackers + Nuala
Lord Of The Feast
Tharn Ravager White Mane
Blackclad Wayfarer

Reinforcements: Winter Argus, Blackclad Wayfarer

You have convinced me to re-consider the Winter Argus, though I cannot force it into my main list unfortunately! Others have said that the Trackers aren't a great choice because they already have Stealth, so do not benefit massively from Grayle's Feat. I like using the 3" move to extend my Prey 'bubble' though. I can see the synergy between Grayle's Feat and Blood Weavers, and know that you like Tharn Ravagers, but I am a little concerned about selecting too many models with abilities which key off living targets. I have selected Megalith so that I can cycle Storm Rager and I like the DEF de-buff. A SR'd White Mane is MAT12 (14 on the charge) with Megalith around, and that is enough to worry even Iron Flesh'd infantry. Megalith also isn't as pillow-fisted as a Woldwarden, has 4 Fury and can heal himself. I lose the ability to Sprint Grayle behind a conveniently-created forest, but 5" of difficult terrain is still a position of relative safety.

[Patuljak]

Yeah, Megalith is something I've been considering myself, but our LGS plays two lists on game days with character restrictions so I opted out of it. He doesn't benefit massively from Grayle's spell list, but Grayle benefits very much from Undergrowth, Storm Rager cycling and such.

Ravagers aren't such a great option with the Megalith, IMO. I usually play Grayle super aggressively with get in your face and open an assasination lane, so Ravagers are great there for their accuracy and high POW. I'm not terribly worried about their survivability (most of them die after the alpha turn), but with this I've often scored turn 3 assasination with primaled Ghetorix/Stalker or Storm Ragered Morraig/Grayle. It creates an unpleasant killzone with which they have to deal, or take it all over again next turn. It's a bit unflexible to certain matchups, though, so I'm slowly migrating towards Wolf Riders for the flanking and hit&run element. They work great for clearing lanes and hunting support, but the list relies on my warpwolves, Grayle and solos to do the heavy lifting. Ups and downs.

I'd drop the Whitemane if you're running Bloodtrackers and fill them out to a full unit. Then I'd drop the Wilder (only two beasts and one animi, you probably don't need her) and LOTF (Bloodtrackers + Nuala, and Grayle, are probably enough for clearing infantry at 35pts) and add either Morraig & Stone Keeper or Gorax & Stone Keeper & Gobbers. I think Morraig fills a better role with your beast loadout, as you can cycle Storm Rager easily, and you have the "Lightning Strike him, kill something and move 13" behind their army" trick up your sleeve. I used to shy away from him because Storm Rager doesn't do much for his damage output, but it puts his accuracy and survivability at godly levels and creates a big headache if you can sneak him behind their lines. He will also help to mitigate your pillow fistedness a bit, often he can hurt a heavy on a charge enough for an unprimaled Stalker to finish the job and sprint away. LOTF is, in contrast, a one shot wonder that can also threaten solos and casters with Storm Rager, but doesn't add enough if you're not going for super aggression I think.

Sorry if I went too off-topic.

[mercury]

I shall give your ideas a whirl, Patuljak. You are right that the Wilder is probably the least essential part of the list, she is there solely to enhance the hit-and-run feel of the list - I like the option of having up to 4 models with Sprint at the same time! It's a pity that her 'Attached' rule prevents her from being fielded as a reinforcement - I was never 100% sold on including her at 35-points, but could quite happily fit her into my additional 7 points. I want to include the Winter Argus as a reinforcement. Is there anything better to spend my remaining 2 points on than a second Blackclad? More Stones perhaps? A Reeve Hunter (probably not worth it since my list includes neither Reeves nor War Wolves)? A Minion solo? I have to admit that I haven't really explored Minion options at all.

[LoserX]

@mercury: We had a thread going alittle bit ago about Lanyssa Ryssyll, Nyss Sorceress and Grayle that i found really helpful since i use her instead of the Blackclad and if you already have a Blackclad in your list you should look at her for another hunters mark, a decent ranged magic spell with critical freeze, and the ability to deny pathfinder to the enemy (helps megalith keep Grayle safe) also if you play against legion she gets boosted attack and damage rolls against spawn models.

[mercury]

Good call on the Undergrowth/Winter Storm interaction. I may try it out. My worry is Lanyssa's lack of survivability and the fact that Winter Storm is an aura. If I actually get close enough to use Winter Storm, it's not too difficult for my opponent to kill her before activating his key pieces.

[Griffin745]

Might be heresy about, I actually think Wolves of Orboros with him are a trap. Other than his feat and Elite Cadre, he does nothing for them. And I find casters who don't continually provide "not dying" support for Wolves of Orboros, loses them fairly fast agaisnt most things. I use Wolfriders, Bloodtrackers, or Bloodweavers myself instead. Better survivability means with him they'll do more and kill more.

And stuff.

Oh yes, wolves die. It's what they do. You don't pay a premium for them though and they provide at least a bit of board presence. Other than that yeah they aint great, but I just can't bring myself to leave home with a wolves caster and no wolves.

Yeah, Megalith is something I've been considering myself, but our LGS plays two lists on game days with character restrictions so I opted out of it. He doesn't benefit massively from Grayle's spell list, but Grayle benefits very much from Undergrowth, Storm Rager cycling and such.

Ravagers aren't such a great option with the Megalith, IMO. I usually play Grayle super aggressively with get in your face and open an assasination lane, so Ravagers are great there for their accuracy and high POW. I'm not terribly worried about their survivability (most of them die after the alpha turn), but with this I've often scored turn 3 assasination with primaled Ghetorix/Stalker or Storm Ragered Morraig/Grayle. It creates an unpleasant killzone with which they have to deal, or take it all over again next turn. It's a bit unflexible to certain matchups, though, so I'm slowly migrating towards Wolf Riders for the flanking and hit&run element. They work great for clearing lanes and hunting support, but the list relies on my warpwolves, Grayle and solos to do the heavy lifting. Ups and downs.

I'd drop the Whitemane if you're running Bloodtrackers and fill them out to a full unit. Then I'd drop the Wilder (only two beasts and one animi, you probably don't need her) and LOTF (Bloodtrackers + Nuala, and Grayle, are probably enough for clearing infantry at 35pts) and add either Morraig & Stone Keeper or Gorax & Stone Keeper & Gobbers. I think Morraig fills a better role with your beast loadout, as you can cycle Storm Rager easily, and you have the "Lightning Strike him, kill something and move 13" behind their army" trick up your sleeve. I used to shy away from him because Storm Rager doesn't do much for his damage output, but it puts his accuracy and survivability at godly levels and creates a big headache if you can sneak him behind their lines. He will also help to mitigate your pillow fistedness a bit, often he can hurt a heavy on a charge enough for an unprimaled Stalker to finish the job and sprint away. LOTF is, in contrast, a one shot wonder that can also threaten solos and casters with Storm Rager, but doesn't add enough if you're not going for super aggression I think.

Sorry if I went too off-topic.

You know what I don't even begin to see what your on about, dropping the 'warden cause it's useless and pillowfisted but Megalith is alright? I suppose you must face Iron Flesh Khador far more often than me.

Then you move on to say that Grayle and your solos do the heavy lifting but advocate dropping the White Mane and LotF? Seriously I'm just confused. I think I'm gonna leave you to this one.

Good call on the Undergrowth/Winter Storm interaction. I may try it out. My worry is Lanyssa's lack of survivability and the fact that Winter Storm is an aura. If I actually get close enough to use Winter Storm, it's not too difficult for my opponent to kill her before activating his key pieces.

I think you caught the problem with that. Starting inside her CMD really kills the effectivness of that spell. If you ever get it covering anything, something else will kill her before it activates. I have relegated Lanyssa to being the Blackclad of my Cygnar army, true story.

[Patuljak]

You know what I don't even begin to see what your on about, dropping the 'warden cause it's useless and pillowfisted but Megalith is alright? I suppose you must face Iron Flesh Khador far more often than me.

Then you move on to say that Grayle and your solos do the heavy lifting but advocate dropping the White Mane and LotF? Seriously I'm just confused. I think I'm gonna leave you to this one.



I think you caught the problem with that. Starting inside her CMD really kills the effectivness of that spell. If you ever get it covering anything, something else will kill her before it activates. I have relegated Lanyssa to being the Blackclad of my Cygnar army, true story.

It's pretty simple if you take the time to read the post. I was talking about MY list when I was talking about heavies and solos doing the heavy lifting. Then I popped some thoughts into his list without simply telling him "take my list".

And yes, Megalith is much more useful than a Warden in oh so many ways, all connected to Undergrowth. It's like having a Fell Caller, it gets Grayle to MAT11 and reliable hitting vs casters. It also helps with denial much more than the forest Woldwarden craps. AND it has a POW and Fury more than a Warden and heals d3. I have however, as I said in my post as well, opted away from it because my other complementary list almost always needs Megalith more. And I prefer the Ghetorix/Stalker combo.

[mercury]

You know what I don't even begin to see what your on about, dropping the 'warden cause it's useless and pillowfisted but Megalith is alright? I suppose you must face Iron Flesh Khador far more often than me.

You realise that the difference between Megalith and a Woldwarden is HUGE, right. Sure, Megalith only has +1 POW, but he is far from pillow-fisted IMO. He has +1 MAT over a Warden, and Weight Of Stone on his fists, meaning that he boosts to hit much less frequently; he has +1 FURY over a Warden too, sure will generate more attacks overall. Additionally he can heal himself and has a better all-round animus.

In short, Megalith's normal damage output, whilst not as great as that of a Stalker or Ghetorix, is still way in excess of what I expect from a Warden. Megalith is not pillow-fisted, he just isn't one of the heaviest hitters out there.

[Dragonowar]

Hey all,

I want to play Grayle the Farstrider more, but I have some questions:

- What Units work well with him?

- How to best use his spell list?

- What other beasts should I use?

This is just my take on some of the questions that you asked. I will also note some items that I learned from playing at origins tourneys a couple of weeks ago.

Units. Grayle supports individual models pretty well, but not units. So it has been my experience that you must take units that require almost no support. for this I recommend Tharn wolf riders. They are reasonably hard to hit, they can survive most unboosted blast damage, excellent movement range, and with carefully selected prey they can destroy their targets without help. I used these to hold flanks, contest zones that were far from me, and to clean up light and medium infantry. They excelled at this.

Problems that I encountered with wolfriders and grayle: They were often too far afield to benefit from either aspect of his feat. They certainly could have benefited from the stealth and my other models could have benefited from extra moves from their killing but grayle was often too far away for this to happen.

I will disagree with the crowd and say that I can see where Wolves of Orboros could be useful with him as well as bloodtrackers and bloodweavers. Haven't tried those yet but wolfriders are certainly gold with him. Remember it only takes a single model to contest a zone for you.

His spells. Well, thats both hard and easy to answer.

Awareness is a very situational spell, when its good its really good. but you aren't likely to need to cast it every game. In both tourneys I only cast it once and that was to go for the kill on Brandubh's Kromac. I see a lot of potential for it but its hard to setup sometimes. Being able to ignore LOS through models so you can spray a caster with the purebloods 10 inch spray is gold though. A stalker with berserk up and this spell has 360 degree killing potential. Mostly, you should look to see if you CAN use it as opposed to using energy to setup its use.

Gallows is another situational spell. In all the games I played with him at origins, I cast this one time and missed at that. Its very situational but I could always find a better use for my fury it seemed. In retrospect, I think its more of a "setup the enemy so some other piece of your army can do the job" spell. While i can see some use to it, it will probably not be your first choice of things to do with grayle's fury.

Storm Rager I found that I would put storm rager on 1 model at the beginning and after that model died then I would usually be in a position to put it on grayle and leave it the rest of hte game. The models that received it most often were Lord of the Feast and Morraig. I can see where there would be a benefit to cycling it from time to time but usually everything was out of range for cycling by that point. So for practical purposes, I just didnt get to recycle that animus much. when i did though it was great.

Wind Blast I never had opportunity to use this one at all. Two tourneys and I never had a chance to use this at all. Its practical use is creating a place where trenchers and other gun lines must move from or suffer penalties. I just never ran into them at origins but I can certainly see the use of this spell.

Beasts That one appears to be in much discussion so I will give you my POV and you can figure out what works for you.

Pureblood Its animus is most helpful in getting past the many, many spells that boost armor and def out there. I used it on grayle and other beasts on numerous occasions. It also is a jack of all trades beast, need a ranged attack? he has it. Need some extra melee muscle? he has it. he doesn't excel at any one role but his flexibility is something grayle needs. Just ghostly for other warpwolves gives grayle a lot of flexibility. Just remember to keep him near the other warpwolves, I lost my first game of hte day to Brandubh's minion army because I let my feral get too far apart from the pureblood. I had a solid chance at a caster kill just needed ghostly to pull it off. sigh it was a learning experience.

Stalker His animus really, really lets grayle's army do some heavy duty hit and run work. Its mostly melee centered but still flexible in its application. Use grayle or a druid wilder to apply the animus to it before it goes to work with berserk or even str used on a non khador heavy. This saves fury to use for extra attacks or boosts as needed.

Feral Our premier armor killing monster. Works well with other warpwolves and kills stuff dead. Grayle really needs him to ensure certain things will die on time.

Gorax The animus of choice for the discriminating feral is present here. He benefits all the fuzzies when the time comes to really bring the hammer down.

Scarsfell Griffin I didn't use this guy at origins but I really, really wanted his animus numerous times. There were so many times that grayle could get a line on a target but have to risk too many free strikes to do so. I plan on picking one up for him. One game I had to risk 3 freestrikes to get grayle into a position to contest a zone. I made it but I would have felt much better with that animus.

I think that answers your original questions. I put some more thoughts below.

I took 3rd in the 50 pt origins tourney with this list. My one loss was vs an eKreoss tier 4 list. Autohitting weaponmasters hurt, alot. I really should have used my alternate list.

Grayle
Stalker
Pureblood
Feral
Gorax
Druid Wilder
Lord of the Feast
White Mane
Tharn Wolf Riders Full
Morraig

Reinforcements
Feral
War Wolf

The wilder was very important to me for several reasons. Fury control was difficult at times but the wilder helped clear it up. She helped optimize my activation order by getting an animus out there (for FREE!) numerous times. So I could activate grayle earlier or later depending on need. that use alone was worth a fortune and helped me secure some wins.

Lord of the Feast I generally stuffed him into the other army with or without storm rager. His job was to keep infantry (preferably light to medium) off Grayle so that Grayle could go for other objectives or caster kill. He was fantastic for me as usual.

White Mane His original job was the same as the Lord of the Feast. I just couldn't get him to do it as well. Perhaps thats a playstyle problem on my part. I did use him to contest zones on several occasions and he helped me squeak out a control point victory just by hanging out in a zone for me. He was the only model I really wanted to replace though. I think I am going to replace him with Thrullg for some antimagic options. Why did I need anti magic options? well, you remember that tier 4 eKreoss list? careful use of sacrosanct kept me from mounting an effective offense on him. thrullg would have removed sacrosanct so I could attack freely. Another learning experience.

Morraig Very tough, used him to contest solos and hold up the other guys units. Contested zones and objectives with him. overall very useful despite not having Wolves of orboros with him. He didn't kill much for me but I attribute that to the way I was using him. He died a very glorious death holding off kromac for me. I do believe he will get a better paintjob for that.

I honestly didn't give much thought to reinforcements and just picked something that added up really quickly. "Bob" my backup warpwolf was really handy though. The war wolf was used as a speedbump.

Some other notes:

I think Grayle really moves too fast for Gallows Groves. While I would often love to have that additional angle for a weird gallows move or the anti tough ability, I was always so much further upfield it doesn't seem practical for one to keep up. See my Gallows spell notes above as well.

Shifting stones, well it is certainly heresy but I feel the same way about them as I do the gallows grove. I was always going forward too fast for these guys to keep up for the most part. I had good control of my fury with the wilder and my opponents would never have fallen for any of our crazy movement tactics. Its odd, I have used them in so many of my lists and they just didn't fit well with Grayle.

I agree with the following from Patuljak

Grayle doesn't delay. He punches stuff open. My personal advice is, don't focus on control models, focus on stuff that's fast, accurate and can hit hard. Use the alpha strike to kill off as much as you can and get Grayle in the middle of your army, protected by everything being tarpitted and relying on transfers and DEF15/ARM18 to survive. If you hit them hard enough at the right spots, they won't be able to stop you from delivering a caster kill next turn.

Can't say I agree with everything else, but this is a good way to look at grayle from my perspective. I will point out that locating those "right spots" can be difficult sometimes. It will take a bit of practice and experience to master where to put him.

In a well balanced list I can see where wardens would have value for grayle. I have used chain attack smite many times to both damage a target and then remove them from an objective. My only concern would be having to insert stones into my list but the warden's chain attack, geomancy, and other options could make it a valuable piece if you already have shifting stones in your list. I may have to give that whirl just to see how it plays.

Anyway, I hope this different POV on Grayle might be of benefit to some folks out there.