Upcoming 25pt steamroller 2 lists

[eveningshadow]

This will be my first steamroller, and I'm having a bit of trouble coming up with lists I'm super happy with. I would like to run eVayl and pThag, but I also own pLylyth, Abby (who I normally play and love ) pVayl and Rhyas. Anyway my two lists I have thus far are:

pThag

Scythean
Typhon

min Legionnaires
min Spawning Veessel
Shepard
Forsaken
~~~~
eVayl

Nephlim Soldier
Scythean
Seraph

Full Legionnaires
min Spawning Vessel
Shepard
~~~

In list two I'm unhappy with the soldier, but dont really have anything else to stick in there for five points. I keep fooling around with the lists and these are the only two I've come up with that I'm "ok" with but still feel lacking. I would love some feedback and suggestions. Any help would really be appreciated

[hereticwolf]

Add a 2 shredders and drop the shepard and add a forsaken or add a second Shepard

[eveningshadow]

Add a 2 shredders and drop the shepard and add a forsaken or add a second Shepard

I appreciate the suggestions, but I'm not sure what you are recommending I drop to add those models? I do own a second shepherd I could add, and have three or four Forsaken, so no problem there heh.

[Neutralyze]

This will be my first steamroller, and I'm having a bit of trouble coming up with lists I'm super happy with. I would like to run eVayl and pThag, but I also own pLylyth, Abby (who I normally play and love ) pVayl and Rhyas. Anyway my two lists I have thus far are:

pThag

Scythean
Typhon

min Legionnaires
min Spawning Veessel
Shepard
Forsaken
~~~~
eVayl

Nephlim Soldier
Scythean
Seraph

Full Legionnaires
min Spawning Vessel
Shepard
~~~

In list two I'm unhappy with the soldier, but dont really have anything else to stick in there for five points. I keep fooling around with the lists and these are the only two I've come up with that I'm "ok" with but still feel lacking. I would love some feedback and suggestions. Any help would really be appreciated

first list cut typhon and put in a carny. drop the forsaken and use the extra 1 pt from getting a carny to max both legionaires and the vessel

2nd list, get an angelius in there and drop the sheperd and max the pot.

[eveningshadow]

first list cut typhon and put in a carny. drop the forsaken and use the extra 1 pt from getting a carny to max both legionaires and the vessel

2nd list, get an angelius in there and drop the sheperd and max the pot.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've changed the lists and they now look like this:

pThag

Carnivean
Scythean

max Legionnaires
max Spawning Vessel
Shepherd
~~~

eVayl

Angelius
Nephllim Soldier
Seraph

max Legionnaires
max Spawning Vessel
~~~~

Any further suggestions, particularly on list 2?

Thanks again, really appreciate the input.

[Ordrek]

eVayl Tier 4 list:
eVayl -6
*Angelius 8
*Angelius 8
*Seraph 7

AND

-max Legionnaires 6
-min Spawning Vessel 2
OR
-min Legionnaires 4
-max Spawning Vessel 3
-Spell Martyr OR Shepard 1

Note that flying beasts are especially useful to eVayl with Refuge cycling. It lets the beasts sit behind infantry/pot and dart out for a tail strike and fade back behind the infantry line.

[eveningshadow]

I don't currently own a second Angelius, but I am going to buy one before the tourney, so think I will add that in. I am hesitant to go with a min unit of Legionnaires, as currently in the practice games I've played, my Legionnaires get murdered in one turn, and I have little "meat" to slow things down and use the hit and run tactic.

In the three test games Ive played so far, the first was against a blindwater Calaban list and everything went fine. Killed the gator posse almost completely on turn one and Legionnaires even survived first contact, with enough dying/killing for the cauldron to spit out a shredder on turn 2. That game went great.

My second test game, not so well. It was Skorne, with a lot of troops. 2 units of Nihilators, 1 unit of Paingivers, a rhinodon and clops brute lead by that caster from domination that gets gets stronger as he's injured. I basically got troop spammed and couldn't kill enough fast enough. Legionnaires were all dead save 2 after turn 2. I know I made the mistake of ever extending my seraph on turn 1, so that hurt me a lot. Any suggestions on dealing with troop spam with the vayl list? I know having the seraph shots would have helped a lot, had I not screwed the pooch on that.

[Ordrek]

STUFFI don't currently own a second Angelius, but I am going to buy one before the tourney, so think I will add that in. I am hesitant to go with a min unit of Legionnaires, as currently in the practice games I've played, my Legionnaires get murdered in one turn, and I have little "meat" to slow things down and use the hit and run tactic.

In the three test games Ive played so far, the first was against a blindwater Calaban list and everything went fine. Killed the gator posse almost completely on turn one and Legionnaires even survived first contact, with enough dying/killing for the cauldron to spit out a shredder on turn 2. That game went great.

My second test game, not so well. It was Skorne, with a lot of troops. 2 units of Nihilators, 1 unit of Paingivers, a rhinodon and clops brute lead by that caster from domination that gets gets stronger as he's injured. I basically got troop spammed and couldn't kill enough fast enough. Legionnaires were all dead save 2 after turn 2. I know I made the mistake of ever extending my seraph on turn 1, so that hurt me a lot. Any suggestions on dealing with troop spam with the vayl list? I know having the seraph shots would have helped a lot, had I not screwed the pooch on that.

I am NOT a long time Warmahordes player at this point (played years ago and just got back to it), so take my advice for what it is worth. However, I've done very well since my return, including winning a recent small tourney using eVayl.

I'm not convinced eVayle NEEDS a speed bump unit at this point value. With two hit and run beast every turn and at least one Obliteration channel, she can wear down units/beasts quite fast then engage when the enemy is reeling from the blows. The Seraph can do an obvious 2-4 shooting attacks a turn while Angels can use up to 5 melee attacks with Overtake. Just make sure they have Refuge on them first so they can jet out of reach after. If you know something will be in reach at the end of your turn, try to plan to have Admonition on it to frustrate engagement. Admonition on flyers is that much better because they can even go over models to reposition.

My biggest challenge is always avoiding early engagement. Once you get stuck with something, you have to Refuge/kill your way out. eVayl also has a challenge that pVayl does not: She must roll to hit with the Oraculus, which becomes especially challenging when your target is engaged. Because of this, a smart opponent will just Run at your Angels in hopes of swarming them with infantry once they are within range. Seraphs don't have to worry about this so much since they can engage from so far away and then Refuge further. If you haven't done enough damage to the units yet, don't be afraid to just shoot with the Angels and back away.

Of course the biggest complication comes with scenarios where you cannot simply back away. In that case you might just want consider another beast which is great at infantry clearing: Typhon. Icy Grip + 3 powerful sprays can put a huge dent in the enemy. However, I think eVayl loses a lot when she is forced to play as a brawler force rather than hit and run. She still has great tools, but loses one of the best ones (Refuge cycling). I'd probably prefer Saeryn in a brawl, but I haven't had much chance to try her yet.

[eveningshadow]

Wanted to follow up on this since the steamroller was today. I ended up winning 3-0 I ran eVayle with 2 Seraph, Angelius, max Legionnaires and Max pot for list 1 and Abby, Carnevean, Scythean, 3 Shredders, 2 Shepherds and 2 Forsaken for list 2. The pair of Seraph were crazy good and super hard to defend against netting me both caster kills, (pButcher on turn 3 and Old Witch in turn 2.) Abby ran the two heavies down my opponents throat for a scenario win as well.

All in all i would say it went well Thanks for all the suggestions.