Does this list have enough damage output?

[thecapn226]

I had an idea for this list, but wasn't sure about the outcome. It seems like it might be low on power, but I might be overlooking things.

Siege
Defender
Squire
Rienholdt

ATGM+Dude
Defender
Arlan Strangeways
eEiryss
B13
Di Wulfe

The defenders put out decent damage, and can counter things that get close. The B13 sticks with Di Wulfe to use smoke bombs and stealth, and the ATGM put Critical Brutal on defender+ boosted damage from Arlan. That's my plan at least

[tankrandall]

The damage should be great for 35 points I would worry about not having a screening or tarpit unit. Once they close the gap things will get very bad for you and cant really control an objective.

[thecapn226]

I see your point. Any suggestions? We usually play simple caster kill at my FLGS since all of us are fairly new (less than 1 year playing), so i have no experience with scenarios. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

[tankrandall]

I think the best option would be to drop the B13, Arlan, and Gorman or eEryiss and or maybe replace a defender with a hunter. I am not sure what I would do but you have a lot of options based on how many points you want to free up and what models you have. Boomhowlers would need the least help due to having 4+ tough and precursors with shield wall don't need support (they wouldn't mind it though...) things like stormguard and stormblades really need JR.

I understand the hunter hate due to it not stacking with sieges feat but remember siege has 2 shots and the defender has 1 shot, that is 3 half armor shots and your more than likely going to want to shoot at least one of those targets again. Its generally better to focus fire on high priority targets every round except the feat round but if you can knockout a vital system (major weapon, cortex or movement on a jack that is in charge range) your much better off shooting it at full ARM than something else that wont *** you up next turn.

If your only planning on playing caster kill I wouldn't worry as much, but would more than likely still drop B13 and Arlan for something. The ATGM and B13 fill a similar role and with siege having ground pound, Explosivo, and mage sight I don't think you need them (filling the role of magic weapons and shooting stealth). Arlan is nice but if your paying 2 points to be able to boost to hit every shot just to hope you get a critical your wasting 2 points. Look at this table
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Cr...Effect%20Table RAT 6 vs another jack at say DEF 12 you are 28% more likely to crit...that is once every ~4/turns or maybe once a game, your to hit goes up 23% which is maybe once a game as well, maybe 15+2D6 and +D6 damage once a game isn't worth 2 points.

You could, for example, drop the B13 and Arlan for min stormguard in front of your lines to eat a charge when it happens.

[thecapn226]

I'm partial to the second defender over the hunter because I have found that against the armies I fight I am generally missing 6 pts of damage from the hunter due to armor buffs which are added after halved armor. It's the same amount I am missing with the defender, except that the defender is still str 15 on small based units. Arlan is there because I use the Dude to boost to hits, and then use Arlan to boost damage, resulting in either a full boosted defender on average, or on a critical STR 15+4d6 damage which is usually pretty brutal (pun intended).

I do agree with dropping the B13 and Di Wulfe now that I think about it. I am trying to think of something to fill the 6pts with though. My friend prefers Typhon and with 3 spray attacks I am reluctant to run troops due to them dropping like flies. I had an idea of using a minimal unit of long gunners for back up or a full squad of sword knights to counter charge when the defenders get into melee. Of course I could also go eEiryss and JR for AS and a boosted 12 shot.

[VagrantPoet]

You seem aware though you worded it oddly, but against all medium or larger bases the hunter hits as hard as the defender.

I'm partial to the second defender for assassination vectors. Make a hole with siege, feat, shoot twice, then pop them with a defender or two to finish off.

You do really need some bodies. Even taking min boomhowlers as your 6 points will buy you some time. And if they run screaming forward you can bring up siege behind them. Getting Siege closer to the enemy caster is always part of the plan.

[thecapn226]

So thinking about....

Siege
Defender
Squire
Rienholdt

ATGM+UA
+Defender
Strangeways
Min Boomhowler
eEiryss

Or....

Siege
Defender
Squire
Rienholdt

ATGM+UA
+Hunter
Arlan
max boomhowlers
eEiryss (or JR for AS)

[VagrantPoet]

I would vote the second, but the first is still good.

Its about whether you want to focus on attrition or assassination.

[thecapn226]

The problem with assassination is that 90% of my opponents are hordes so I have to be able to kill beasts dead before working on warlock. I'll try both lists and see which works better. Thanks for the advice

[tankrandall]

Have you thought about Pendrake if 90% of your opponents are hordes?

[thecapn226]

Thought about him a lot, but don't have the model, rules, or any experience with him. Can anyone else pass experience with Pendrake?

[RidetheLightning]

I like the 2nd list a little more as well and doubly so against a Hordes army. With the warbeasts' generally lower ARM, the Hunter packs a bigger punch than against a Warmachine army. Also, I haven't played using him yet, but I have seen Pendrake in action and he is REALLY good! He is also REALLY situational but if you feel your meta includes a lot of Hordes, he should be worth it. I like the idea of him escorting the ATGM up the field, giving them a portable "Deadeye" effect against warbeasts! Great with their Thunderbolt bullet type!

[thecapn226]

So do you guys think eEiryss or JR would be better? I've seen tactics that use him to give out AS and then take boosted shots, but haven't tried either one in action. I'm trying to find a list that I can use and get tactics down. I know AS on Boomhowlers is vicious on paper.

[tankrandall]

So do you guys think eEiryss or JR would be better? I've seen tactics that use him to give out AS and then take boosted shots, but haven't tried either one in action. I'm trying to find a list that I can use and get tactics down. I know AS on Boomhowlers is vicious on paper.

They both have merit JR is a lot more defensive and eEryiss is a lot more offensive, whats your play style?

[thecapn226]

Phone messed up, please skip this post.

[thecapn226]

Still trying to figure that one out lol. But I see your point on them. I should have about six play hours this weekend to test both lists out now that I have a decent idea of what to put in. However I won't be able to get Boomhowler(seems I got everything but him in my last purchase lol) for a little bit. But this gives me a good idea list to work towards.

[LordCommaderCavanaugh]

Shooting that helps with infantry screening:

Arcane tempest gun mages: CRA eliminates most infantry from far enough away that they can't charge
The Black 13th: Mage storm, POW 12 4'' AOE cloud effect really puts a halt on infantry
Cyclone: Two 3'' AOE's each turn that can be placed anywhere in the front arc of the Cyclone denies a 6'' area in total.

Cygnar tar pit units:

Storm guard
Sword Knights

Just add Arcane shield and tough and fearless and you have a pretty serious tar pit unit.