EHaley 50pt SR...got stomped badly.

[veragor1206]

EHaley-5
Thorn 8
Stormclad (bonded) 10
Squire 2

JWC 3
Runewood 3
Arlan 2

ATGM + O
Defender
Stormblades+ UA + 2 WA

My opponent runs a Damiano list featuring Rocky, Nomad, SHalbs, SCav, A+H, Eiryss, Stannis, Boomies, Sylys, and Rhupert. Needless to say I got stomped really badly, mainly due to me repeatedly forgetting to upkeep spells and use my feat at the right time. Any flaws in the list and what is your opinions on my list.

[tankrandall]

I don't like Thorn but there is love for him on these forums. If your picking on heavy targets with the defender the hunter does the ~same damage at 3 points less. I haven't tried runewood yet but I think the blades rather have 1 more gunner and tough (Rhupert) than the tools he provides. Forgetting to upkeep arcane shield will cause the blades to die a lot easier and eHaley's feat is money so not using that correctly could really put you behind as well. I don't play competitively or even as often as I would like but those are my thoughts.

[Stephan Garmark]

List looks a lot like the one I'm playing. I'm not using Runewood or Storm Blades, but instead going for Stormguard (full) and B13.
If I where to use Storm blades, which are also perfectly fine, I'd dump one gunner in this list and remove Runewood to fit B13, they fill a lot of roles for Haley, her armies tend to be quite small, so it's a good thing to have a low cost unit that can deal a lot of damage.

I think you just made a couple of mistakes, as everybody do once in a while. The list can cope with most armies, it deals a LOT of damage on range (more so than my list) and it has a very solid melee unit.

Thorn is amazing. Don't ever take him out, he's the best arc node platform and Haley needs a node to do a lot of her more nasty tricks, it doesn't hurt to put AS on him and have him take a few charges along the way, you have Arlan in there to help if the arc node goes down, but with set defence and ARM 21 he'll likely not die from a couple of charging infantrymen (unless they're like great bears or something)

I love this particular list with Haley, play it a few times and tweak where you want, I personally believe that this is one of the best build types with Haley.

[veragor1206]

Thanks for the replies. @ Stephen Garmark - you don't find the B13 and the Gunmages to be redundant? On Thorn I really love being able to utilize him to nuetralize enemy jacks and still be able to arc spells around the battlefield. On the charge he is also quite capable and has gotten me a few caster kills in last ditch efforts to win. To be honest I got completely overwhelmed early in the game and didn't have much of a chance to retaliate. I underestimated the Steelheads ability to move across the board and really screwed up with my feat. Generally I use the feat to get in two solid turns of shooting and spell slinging while following up with a charge from the SBs, yesterday I got hosed though. I like the list but it does need some tweaking.

I plan to run this at Origins at the end of the month, what would be a good secondary list to bring, Im leaning toward Siege or ECaine... lemme know

[VagrantPoet]

I actually think you absolutely need Rhupert for the stormblades. Think of him as the real ua.

With tough, AS and deceleration you should get them there. Coddle that stormclad.

I would reccommend dropping runewood and downgrading the defender to a hunter. Then adding Rhupert you have 4 points left.

I actually like the B13th with ATGM, I see alot of great units at full size with UA cost 11-12 points. Thats how I often think of the pairing.

They are redundancy though. But good against warmachine when your facing lots of infantry.

Of course another option is to have a high damage output eHaley list and have a min unit of forgeguard and a storm smith while reducing thorn to a lancer. This gives you alot of high pow attacks even if the stormclad dies.

Seems to me you want to beat mercs though, and lots of good guns and mage storm are a way to do this.

[Stephan Garmark]

Thanks for the replies. @ Stephen Garmark - you don't find the B13 and the Gunmages to be redundant?

No, not at all. They fill two completely different roles, which is why the only ability they have in common is brutal damage/critical brutal damage.
B13 does three things, IMO:

1) They are able to put down the hurt on high DEF infantry blocks with magestorm
2) Lynch can make something visible for your defender to take out
3) They threaten casters

Also, as Vagrant says, you could think of them as an extension of your gunmages. I would always recommend them in pairs. I know a lot of people call that redundancy, but I think they do very different things.

I don't think you need Rhupert. The +1 DEF or Tough are nice and reason to take him in. However with a banner and command 9 you probably won't break and thus he's not completely necessary.
I definatly wouldn't downgrade any of the jacks, these three are the best options available.

For your second list either Siege or eStryker are solid choices.

[VagrantPoet]

I'm not reccommending Rhupert for the fearless.

Unless you are sure to be facing alot of negation of tough its one of the best defensive mechanics for infantry. It takes stormblades from easily killed to having staying power. I also gives you pathfinder so that badly placed terrain can't as easily screw up your deployment.

If nothing else I have found that that is a lot more than Thorn realistically adds over a lancer. Thorn is good, but he's a point overcosted. Black 13th are undercosted though, so that's good! AS and Deceleration won't protect your knights in combat. You need to have rhupert so they have staying power.

Even then, just swap runewood for him and a stormsmith and you get some nice options. You can keep thorn and the defender that way.

[Stephan Garmark]

Omg you seriously didnt just say that Thorn is overcosted... For 2 points you get +1 mat, +1 pow, reaction drive, imprint and one of the best affinities on the game, seriously that would be so op for 1 point.

[PellaxVeritas]

Feel free to take what i have with a grain of salt.. but I often prefer running a second infantry unit in front of the blades like the PK's generally. But the big cavet is to throw your jacks on the flanks otherwise they can target the jacks with magic sprays to eat the pk's alive. The other thing i noticed is when you consider the b13 i highly reccomend gormen since that 6 point "unit" all has stealth via smoke clouds, he can rust//black oil things for b13/your army to kill and they can actually hold a flank fairly well. Ehaley takes alot of practice to get right between the timing of her feat and balancing the list out so your feat doesnt just buy you time to die but win via scenario /carve his army appart.

[VagrantPoet]

Omg you seriously didnt just say that Thorn is overcosted... For 2 points you get +1 mat, +1 pow, reaction drive, imprint and one of the best affinities on the game, seriously that would be so op for 1 point.

Stalker -> Ghetorix
+1 mat, +1 pow, much more survivable, etc.

Not to mention that his pow only goes up to 13, so instead of 6 points on something that's terrible at killing things, you've now got 8 points that still can't kill anything. Reaction drive and the imprint, not to mention the affinity are great, but blessing of vengeance is only 7 points, and his affinity is also bonkers.

I do think thorn might give more, but 8 points is a lot of points, especially when you want stormblades who require their own support.

Almost all games eHaley loses are because her feat only just evens out the points spent in support compared to your opponent.

[Stephan Garmark]

I understand where youre coming from, but I disagree. About half my Haley games I win as a direct result of something I use Thorn for, and dude, Thorn is miles better than bov.
I dont know what the support for storm blades is. Theyre pretty good vanilla under deceleration. I use guard instead because reach and e leap is hige under Haleys feat. I actually prefer them to boomies on this list.

[tankrandall]

VagrantPoet are you ready, Stephan Garmakr are you ready?....FIGHT!!!

Blades support is generally JR and Rhupert.

As I said I don't think Thorn is worth 2 points. +1Mat and Pow aren't really that useful because its still not really a melee threat, the imprint is ok I guess but at def 13 I wouldn't count on it. The affinity is great! but it only works with Haley so I haven't even thought about purchasing him. I guess I would use him in a 1 caster (Haley) 100 point game but short of that he isn't even on my radar.

[veragor1206]

EHaley-5
Thorn 8
Stormclad (bonded) 10
Squire 2

JWC 3
Arlan 2
Rhupert 2

Black 13th 4
ATGM + O 8
Hunter 6
Stormblades+ UA + 2 WA 10

New list, dropped the Defender and Runewood in favor of a Hunter and Rhupert. Im gonna try this out, Im a little wary though as I never play without two heavies in an army...

[veragor1206]

also added in the B13th...

[Sardonic Artery]

Dig the thoughts on B13th + gun mages + UA just being a max unit. Never thought of it that way before.

Stalker -> Ghetorix
+1 mat, +1 pow, much more survivable, etc.

Not to mention that his pow only goes up to 13, so instead of 6 points on something that's terrible at killing things, you've now got 8 points that still can't kill anything. Reaction drive and the imprint, not to mention the affinity are great, but blessing of vengeance is only 7 points, and his affinity is also bonkers.

I do think thorn might give more, but 8 points is a lot of points, especially when you want stormblades who require their own support.

Almost all games eHaley loses are because her feat only just evens out the points spent in support compared to your opponent.

Man, lancers in general annoy me for that (hey, let me try to bash out your cortex instead), although Thorn, with reaction drive and a damage buff (pNemo), he can be a threat to many casters.

[veragor1206]

Dig the thoughts on B13th + gun mages + UA just being a max unit. Never thought of it that way before.

Never tried it either, we'll see how it goes and I'll report back..

[veragor1206]

Finally got another game in with the list and did quite well. My opponent was playing with EGaspy, DJ, Stalker, BJ, full Banethralls, UA Tartarus, Coven, and Satyxis w/ UA.

Round 1
First turn I ran up casting AS on SBs and Deceleration, Rhupert put tough on the SBs. My opponent ran 2 Satixis into melee with the SBs and the rest were a few inches back, followed closely by DJ and the Stalker. The rest of his army ran into the forests and Gaspy placed his 3 smoke templates covering their advance.

Round 2
The Stormblades killed the two Satixis in melee and the rest of my blades shot and killed a few more. The Hunter missed both shots on the DJ and the SC also missed a shot. The Gunmages stood still and capped a few banes peeking out of the forest. My opponent charged the SBs with the Satyxys and killed two thanks to tough from Rhupert, the rest of his army advanced, he cast a few spells on the ATGMs but missed.

Round 3
The Stormblades finish off the Satyxys. Thorn Charges the Stalker and does minimal damage. The Stormclad with 4 focus and TA puts a huge dent in the DJ despite missing 2 attacks. The gunmages and B13 wipe out all the Biles and most of the Banes. Haley pops her feat and kills a combine member with ABolt. The Stalker attacks Thorn and does a small amount of damage. The remaining Banes move into melee with the Gunmages. the rest of his army retreats into the forests.

Round 4
SC charges a Bonejack and scraps it, Thorn scraps the Stalker and the Sbs move toward the left side of the table to prevent a charge on Haley. Gunmages and the Black 13 kill the two remaining Combine members, The remaining Banes and Tartarus. Hunter takes a shot on Gaspy sitting on on full focus and does a few points of damage. My opponent moves Gaspy up, feats returning 10 Banes to charge and kill almost all the Gunmages and Watts.

Round 5
Haley casts Timebomb on gaspy via Thorn. Stormclad stacked with focus charges Gaspy dealing 32 damage winning the game.

All in all the game went extremely well for me, I seemed to play much better with Haley this time around and the army as a whole worked and flowed together nicely. My only model I am questioning now is the Hunter who really didn't seem to do much the whole game. He is potent and I appreciate his value but I wish the Cyclone could fit in...

[Sethos]

If you dont like the Hunter you can try the Avenger with the Gun mages. I feel like the Avenger really shines with them as the gun mages can give it snipe alloing it to stand and aim more often and overcome his terrible Rat. He brings an medium aoe at one point less POW than a Defender that knocks targets down on a direct hit! Not to mention his melee weapon is pretty decent as well and only really needs one focus to boost to hit. At the same cost as a Defender I feel like it outshines the Defender in every way in regard to being marshalled.

You would have to drop something out of the list to fit him though. Probably the B13

[Hint of Insanity]

Omg you seriously didnt just say that Thorn is overcosted... For 2 points you get +1 mat, +1 pow, reaction drive, imprint and one of the best affinities on the game, seriously that would be so op for 1 point.

I think the overcosted feeling doesn't so much come from the 2 points for upgrading thorn, but from the lancer itself which feels over costed at 6 points.

[Stephan Garmark]

I think the overcosted feeling doesn't so much come from the 2 points for upgrading thorn, but from the lancer itself which feels over costed at 6 points.

Quoted for truth

[tankrandall]

I think the overcosted feeling doesn't so much come from the 2 points for upgrading thorn, but from the lancer itself which feels over costed at 6 points.

Yes if your using Haley, both if your not, IMO.

[DontStop]

Don't forget your Stormblades get 3 inch AOEs with the UA. That should destroy those low arm Satyxix (spelling).

[veragor1206]

Yea the Aoes did work out in my favor, however the Satyxis close in so fast you generally don't get the option to shoot, lol.

[DontStop]

Satyxis are immune to blast damage, the AOEs shouldnt hurt them. NM.

[LordCommaderCavanaugh]

The hunter is an exceptionally strong shooting jack when he makes his shots. The armor piercing is amazing. With temporal acceleration and aiming the hunter should really be dealing out some substantial damage. I personally play my hunters very aggressively. They have perry so I just walk them out of or around melee. I have a hodes heavy meta so I almost always run two hunters. Two hunter shots a turn on hordes heavies isndevastating. Two armor piercing shots on death jack or a bone jack each turn shot really put the hurt on provided the shots make. Don't lose hope in the hunter. Rolls miss sometimes. Try and aim the hunter when possible. Use him again and see how he turns out.

I also use the Arcane tempest gun mages, full unit, and the black 13 th the two AOES they provide are amazing against infantry heavy armies like the trollbloods or the cryxian hordes of the unliving. I find a particular pleasure in destroying half or more of a mechanithrall unit each turn. Or using the ATGM to use their AOE on a light jack. It can really tear up a bone jack. It's too bad their super powered CRA doesn't work on the satyxis, however the sniped shots and thunder shots are really nice at them. Knocking them down really slows their onslaught.