Man-O-War Super-Solo: What would you want?

[Darguth]

So, been painting up my MoW STs finally and it's got me thinking. There are many comments here on the boards that MoW need a few perks to push them into the realm of truly useful. Sure, they can fill their place...but only in a limited subset of casters' lists.

My question is, if Man-O-War units got a super-solo similar to Kovnik Joe for the Winterguard, what would you like to see him do? Here's my idea just to get things rolling:

Kovnik Piotr Yarik: 3pts
SPD: 4
STR: 9
MAT: 7
RAT: 6
DEF: 11
ARM: 18
CMD: 9

Hand Cannon: RNG 12, ROF 1, AOE -, POW 12

Glaive: POW 5, P+S 14
- Reach

Commander

Fearless

Master Tactician [Man-O-War Shocktrooper]: While this model is in play friendly Man-O-War Shocktrooper units gain Set Defense (A model in this model's front arc suffers -2 on charge, slam, and impact attack rolls against this model).

Master Tactician [Man-O-War Demolition Corps]: While this model is in play friendly Man-O-War Demolition Corps units gain Relentless Charge (Models with Relentless Charge gain Pathfinder during activations they charge).

Master Tactician [Man-O-War Bombardiers]: While this model is in play friendly Man-O-War Bombardiers units gain Precision Bombardment (Models with Precision Bombardment may re-roll failed ranged attack rolls during activations they aim).

Full Steam (*Action): RNG CMD. Target a friendly Man-O-War model/unit. The model/unit may make a 2" advance.

Into the Breach (*Action): RNG CMD. Target a friendly Man-O-War model/unit. The model/unit gains +2 to all damage rolls for one turn.

-----------------------------

Not sure, just some ideas. I think the Full Steam action mitigate the entire "slow" problem of the MOW units, but without going over-the-top. You get 6" Shield Walls with STs, 11" threat ranges from the Demo Corps, and you can do all kinds of stuff with Bombardier shooting with out-of-activation movement. The Into the Breach action gives him a support ability to use when you no longer need the extra movement. The granted abilities are minor perks that fit within the character of the various units, the Bombardiers being the strongest but they are also arguably the weakest overall unit in question too.

I think he might be cheap at 3pts, since he does little by himself, but his buffs are overall less powerful than Joe too because they will affect smaller units and therefore fewer models overall. However, on the flip-side 3pts is a bit expensive for such small units if you're only bringing one MOW unit; so he'd encourage multiple units in the same list. So that's a bit of a hidden cost, because you'd need to spend at least 15pts on 2x min units of the cheaper MOW plus the super-solo.

[ShockwaveIIC]

All that for three points??


Man O war Field Marshall please, from Blighted Shadows, with Jack Marshall. (For fluff reasons only)

[Havock]

Why not simply give him roughly kovnik stats with a desperate pace thing ala eSorscha for MoW the only thing they really lack is speed.

As for general purpose buffing, there should be a simple MoW officer that can be attached as UA to any MoW unit, granting them pathfinder and something for shooting.
Gunfighter?

[Peri]

For a Man-O-War supersolo? A shocktrooper ona horse would be neat.

Oh wait.

[PG_Duckboy]

Just give me the league konvik PP posted and i will be happy as a clam.....in Man-o-War armor.

[Darguth]

All that for three points??


Man O war Field Marshall please, from Blighted Shadows, with Jack Marshall. (For fluff reasons only)

The static buffs are pretty minor. Set Defense and Relentless Charge are nice, but nothing to write home about. Nor is he a powerhouse unto himself. He has a handcannon and a so-so melee weapon. The real thing he grants are the special actions. Which are by no means over-the-top for 3 points IMO.

I think if you had this model available you'd still fit him and MOW into many, many fewer lists than the WGDS. Kovnik Joe is more universally powerful and for a point less. I think it would be hard to justify him in a list with just one MOW unit, as I said above. Which balances out his point cost reasonably well because you're going to need to snag two, arguably sub-par units to justify his inclusion.

[ReaverQueen]

Main concern here is that said solo specifically only buffs those three variations of MOW. In theory we could have other MOW units released in the future, which this solo wouldn't help nearly as much.

[Darguth]

I'd like to point out that my intent of this thread was not particularly to propose my lone idea, but rather to encourage discussion of what we think the MOW need and the best/most reasonable approach to providing that boost.

[HRM]

I think the bonuses granted to Shocktroopers in Butcher 1's Tier 2 list are groovy. It's all they need. Something that does that, the -1 point and +2 SPD, for ONE turn - maybe you get to choose which turn...?

[Trihnicus]

A Man-O-War Lesser Warcaster with A model/Unit Superiority and a Tough/Steady model/unit buff. or a Bombardiers UA that gave them Assault and Immunity to Blast damage. Or a Greylord model that gave them a place effect.

[hausdorff space]

I always thought something a little more like this would be cool.

Kovnik Piotr Yarik, The Iron Giant: 4pts

SPD: 4
STR: 9
MAT: 7
RAT: 6
DEF: 11
ARM: 18
CMD: 9

Custom Ice Maul: P+S 16
- Reach
- Crit Slam
- Rapid Strike
- Beat Back
- Weapon Master

Commander
Fearless
Tactician [Man-O-War]

Field Orders [Man-O-War]: RNG:6 Anytime during his action Kovnik Piotr Yarik may issue one of the following Field Orders to a MoW model/unit, only one Field Order may be used per turn.

• Iron Wall - Kovnik Piotr Yarik and effected MoW gain +2 ARM and Lash.
• Iron Rain - Kovnik Piotr Yarik and effected MoW gain Assault and Battery.
• Iron Advance - Kovnik Piotr Yarik and effected MoW gain Reform and Pathfinder.

[Archimedes_12]

I would much rather have a Man-O-War Warcaster first. We have two former Winter Guards, A Greylord, an Assualt Kommando, so why no IFP or MOW WarCasters?

[ReaverQueen]

LOL... more like 6pts.

[Leprousy]

Don't we already have a MOW super solo on a horse?

For buffing MOW we need a UA. Something similar to the IFP UA that gives them a mini feat speed boost, and Maybe a different buff for each unit. Like if it's attached to ST they get defensive line, Demo Corp get boosted damage on first swing, and Bombadiers get a RAT boost(maybe a roll an extra and drop one on the attack roll.)

[ReaverQueen]

Defensive Line isn't an order. ARM 23 MOW STs sounds kind of crazy.

[Seventhprophet]

I always thought something a little more like this would be cool.

If you make the solo a MoW with speed 4 and he can only buff the speed of a target model/unit, he will quickly be out of range to be any more help wont he?

[Revamp]

If you make the solo a MoW with speed 4 and he can only buff the speed of a target model/unit, he will quickly be out of range to be any more help wont he?

actually, i think maybe not. if he can only do it to one unit a turn and your running multiple units, he'd be at the back with the others while one runs ahead. by the time him and the last one get to the front line, the others can be engaged.

[hausdorff space]

If you make the solo a MoW with speed 4 and he can only buff the speed of a target model/unit, he will quickly be out of range to be any more help wont he?

He gives it to himself too; and the only 'SPD' buff is Reform, which isn't just for advancing up the field.

[HeroZero]

Why again does MoW need another solo? We have two and one is even good. A Mow caster ? Yes please

Introducing
Zora Telegova
Man OWar warcaster
M 4 Mat 7 rat 5 str 8 def 12 arm 16 cmd 9
Focus 5
Warjack points 7

Weapon
Seigebreaker
Pow + str 14 reach magic
Abilities
Iron mistress : all Man O war models gain fearless

Seige Breaker
* attack smite d6 inches
* attack armor peircing
Feat
Into the breach
Warjacks under control may run slam or charge for free and gain crit slam on all melee weapons. Man of war units gain +2 movement and pathinder.

Spells
Savagery ( pmak)
Inviolable resolve
Redline

[Seventhprophet]

I think the strength of Joe is the fact that he can switch gears and go from offensive to defense when you need it. And he is always there to do it. You aren't going to want to have a shock trooper back for rubber banding any time soon. I think if you are buffing speed (universally accepted as needed) then his base speed needs to meet what your shooting for.

Secondly, if you're buffing speed to get upfield, what is he doing next turn to switch gears? Offense or defense? Has to be something equally attractive to all MoW.

Another though. You might have to have it target unit only, not model/unit. I don't think they will want drakuhn +2 speed... Ever.

Realistically, what do you think PP would give us to solve this problem?

[Revamp]

*raises hand* all man o war's are already fearless...

on the other hand, speaking of skorne, you know what'd be perfect? if they gave us a carbon copy of tyrant Xerxis. He's got everything we need to make manowar's great.

[Revamp]

double post...

[juckto]

Battlefield promotion - When a friendly Man'O'War model is destroyed within 3" of this model, you may replace a friendly faction trooper model within 3" of this model with a Man'O'War Rookie.

[ReaverQueen]

MOWs don't really have big problems unless you're trying to get them to do things that they aren't meant to do. Or rather, if you try to replace faster light infantry like WGI with MOW STs.

Theme Forces generally give them pretty good buffs though. Advance Move, 2" added deployment, +SPD, all kinds of things. And of course like I've said before eVlad's feat.

[HeroZero]

Doh just change Iron Mistress to read Man O war are granted Intractable ( no move no place)

Xerxis would be great for khador. But Zora would be amazing.

[Uehen]

I have faith it will come some day. Coming out with one model could sell them another whole heap of MoW, so I am sure they will give us something in their own good time. I would like to see a solo that can cast boundless charge. It doesn't really have to do anything else. Just be an old man is a stick with reach. Any model he hits with the stick gets boundless charge. Or anything. I just want it.

[PG_Caecus Scius]

Shock Troopers need more speed... that is their problem
Demo Core need to survive.. that is their problem
Bombadiers need better looking models, to have come out 1 year earlier, other than that they are fine.

Gunfighter on ST would be cool, but not overly powerful or amazing.
Take Down on Demo Core would be cool, but not overly powerful or amazing- and give them a new role that Great Bears don't already do better

Advance deploy on MOW is awesome, but for fluff reasons... doesn't make sense- so advance move it is. However a lot of tiers already do this

Desperate Pace is already done a million times over... reform works

Flank would work... ala give someone else flank with MOW ST... then you would want to take them. Its a weird way of giving them more.

[FabulousRex]

I think that ST's should emphasize their stalwart nature, not their speed. Give them enough useful abilities and their speed won't matter as much, since they are probably not going to boost MOW speed anytime soon.... How about:

MOW UA- Identical gear, +1 MAT, Granted: Intractable, Tactics: Defensive Strike (just like eVlad), MiniFeat: Assault and Battery 3pts

[juckto]

Point blank is another good option. Point blank would be nice for ST and BB.

[Binz]

All good ideas I see here....

I have a suggestion for one of the special actions for said hypothetical solo,

Expert Ballistics - Target Man o War Model/Unit - If the model/unit forfeits its movement to gain the aiming bonus, they also gain +4" RNG on their Ranged Weapons.

Mostly because I get so frustrated with the short range on ShockTroopers shield cannons, which I think are terribly under utilised, It would turn Bombardiers from medium range relatively easy to kill models into long range support troops.

A second action would be either +2 SPD or Reform, which would help out with the speed issues they face.

(14" threat charges from MOW on evlads feat turn is a bit obscene though)

[jdeckert]

Defensive Line isn't an order. ARM 23 MOW STs sounds kind of crazy.

Not compared to DEF 14 ARM 22 Cataphracts who are base SPD 5 and get to move something like 12" in shield wall. I like the ideas of adding to their durability, especially since demo corps and bombardiers are among the squishiest heavy infantry in the game.

[ReaverQueen]

Well, y'know, Skorne and all.

[The Buoyancy of Water]

Think I've posted my idea for a MoW special rule twice now, here it be again:

First to Fight, Last to Fall
While undamaged, MoW gain +2 movement.
While damaged, MoW gain Tough.

Cheers,
Dave

[The Buoyancy of Water]

Silly double post...

[Roobot]

I should start this post by saying I'm a relatively new player, so I havent had much experience with MOW, only ST and Ive only played casually so far, is it generally believed that MOW need improvement? If this is the case then I hope that Collosals will see a new solo released, Any of the suggestions listed here seem great. I've read on the Forums that PP are great at fixing balance issues and at giving the people what they want (Case in point, Black Dragons UA). The only thing would make me think that PP may not give MOW direct damage or speed boosts is when I think of some of the effects available to MOW already, such as "Fire for effect", "Battle Lust", or pButchers feat, when combined with the boosts suggested here they may propel MOW to rediculous levels of damage... Speed wise a new speed boost when combined with say "Boundless charge" or Strakhovs feat could make the MOW incredibly fast (albeit on a one at a time basis or 1 turn only respectively). I think perhaps Assault and Battery or set defense for ST would be great, not sure about Demo Core or Bombadiers... Though part of me cant help but think that perhaps the Mechanik UA was PP's attempt at improving MOW... I definitely prefer the idea of a MOW solo over a caster, as if its just a caster then the MOW are still subpar for most lists not playing that caster... Apologies for super long post, and again I'm quite a new player so I could be talking nonsense! PS If they do make a MOW solo it better be a Girl as that would be class!

[ReaverQueen]

Yeah! ( like that Bombardier chick )

Only way you'd be able to tell though is if she had the helmet off. Otherwise the torso would probably be the same.

[ReaverQueen]

Yeah! ( like that Bombardier chick )

Only way you'd be able to tell though is if she had the helmet off. Otherwise the torso would probably be the same.

[Roobot]

Yeah reaver queen... The Torso definitely would be the same... Heck, even a Female name would do!

[ReaverQueen]

It's PP though so they'd probably give a girl MOW heels.


Which would be hilarious.

[HidaO-Win]

You could make Harkevich a tier 1 caster with a single MoW UA

MOW Arcanotrain Relay.
MOW Weapon Attachment
3 pts attach to any MOW Unit.
While this model is in play this unit is considered to part of its Warcasters Battlegroup and is affected by spells and feats as such.