What list would you take to combat this?

[Gython]

What list would you take to combat this:

Kommandant Irusk
Behemoth
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Kayazy Assassin Underboss
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich

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I just played in a 2 list 25 pt. tourney and got my @$$ handed to me by the ridonculous stealth DEF into the stratosphere Kayazy Assassins. The list I took had a impaler/bomber but I the stealth aspect didn't help even when the template drifted. This is the list I used:

Calandra Truthsayer, Oracle of the Glimmerwood
Troll Impaler
Dire Troll Bomber
Trollkin Runebearer
Pyg Burrowors (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt)
Fell Caller Hero
Gatorman Witch Doctor


I realize you can't tailor specific lists against specific units/caster in a tournament setting BUT what 25 pt'r would you have brought to challenge stealth/High DEF list's?

[PG_joedj]

I'd use your list, with the following changes:

I'd consider dropping the Impaler, he's great on the first shots by the Bomber, but then he's less valuable as the enemy closes.
Play Pyre and Bomber. The Pyre also buffs melee damage.
Burrowers suck against high DEF. Use individual Burrowers as your ranged targets (your 'beasts will get +2 RAT due to back arc shots!), keeping them just out of melee of the Kayazy, but close enough for the blasts to affect >1 Kayazy. Or give a Burrower immunity to Fire attacks from Calandra and use the Pyre's ranged attack against that Burrower (he's completely safe) with the blast effect working only on the opposing!

Also remember you can Slam friendlies (usually Burrowers positioned properly) into one or more Kayazy.

I'd ditch the Witch Doctor and have Janissa. My wall trumps that non-Reach.

In a couple of months I'll be adding a Storm Troll for his spammed Electro-leap.

[Digestive]

I'd try it Grim with Bomber+Impaler and Scattergunners.

[hooligantuesday]

If you're going to go troll bowling, a medium base model is a lot more efficient than a small base model, and fortunately we're the army that brings the most of those. With medium bases you go straight through kayazy instead of slapping into them, so you can kill multiples with one slam for max efficiency.

[PG_Celedor]

PDoomshaper can wipe Iron Flesh. Runeshapers and Janissa can force lock and rock wall to stop acrobatics and a lot of templates or knockdowns. Long Riders or Champs provide tough to kill hard hitting oompha.

pDoomy
Rok
Pyre
Champs ( min ) + Skaldi
Runeshapers
Janissa

[nosrek]

pGrissel T1

pGrissel
2x Pyre troll

2x Fell Caller Hero
Alten Ashley
Max KW + UA + 3 WA
Min KSB

My alternate would be a question list. For trolls I think the best question we can present is the beast brick.

pMadrak
Mulg
EBDT
Runebearer

Janissa
Min KSB + UA

Luckily there are scenarios that brick armies can do well in so the beast brick is still relevant.

[Magnus0740]

I would take Jarl with a full unit of burrowers and full unit of Kriel worriers (including max Cabers and UA) Bomber and Runebearer with 2 points to use as you like.

[JohnOSpencer]

PDoomshaper can wipe Iron Flesh. Runeshapers and Janissa can force lock and rock wall to stop acrobatics and a lot of templates or knockdowns. Long Riders or Champs provide tough to kill hard hitting oompha.

pDoomy
Rok
Pyre
Champs ( min ) + Skaldi
Runeshapers
Janissa

Scattergunners with Fortune would be a great compliment to kill a ton of 'no-longer-Iron-Fleshed' Kayazy or Winter Guard. Sure you need to roll high to hit the Kayazy, but fortune gives you two chances.

[PG_Celedor]

Is the kayazy DEF buff only applicable to engaging models? I know they get +2DEF in combat, but I don't know if it's a flat DEF buff versus everything or not.

The Battle Engine hasn't been mentioned yet, I think that would also ruin the day for a lot of nimble footed ruskis.

[Brettman008]

What list would you take to combat this:

Kommandant Irusk
Behemoth
Kayazy Assassins (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Kayazy Assassin Underboss
Winter Guard Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Winter Guard Infantry Officer & Standard
Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich

---------

The way I see it you can either fight infantrymachine with infantrymachine or go beast heavy.

Borka Kegslayer (*5pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
Sons of Bragg (6pts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer (2pts)
Fell Caller Hero (3pts)
Stone Scribe Chronicler (2pts)

Use Hero's Tragedy with Vengence to attrition the Assassins down. Keep the Mauler safe but always look for opportunities to Trample on feat turn for the caster kill.

Alternately, I really like this at 25.

Grim Angus (*6pts)
* Pyre Troll (5pts)
* Troll Impaler (5pts)
* Earthborn Dire Troll (10pts)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew (Leader and 1 Grunt) (1pts)

Feat and Marked for Death lets you rip his infantry up at range and the EBDT is awesome for assassination runs.

All that being said I feel the best solution is to play larger games. At 25 points the game is in my experience pretty imbalanced.

[PG_machine007]

Is the kayazy DEF buff only applicable to engaging models? I know they get +2DEF in combat, but I don't know if it's a flat DEF buff versus everything or not.

The Battle Engine hasn't been mentioned yet, I think that would also ruin the day for a lot of nimble footed ruskis.

+1 for the BE.

THe +2 DEF is against melee attacks, regardless of where they come from (Back or front arc).

[Ravir]

Borka for the Windwall means the ranged attacks auto-miss. Janissa and champs w/ Skaldi and Fell Caller, impaler and bomber means Kayazy are less terrifying.