Croe's Cutthroats and Nyss Hunters - Min unit or Max Unit?

[Barrynstein]

So I managed to find these two units on the cheap but only the min units. I plan on running Nyss with pGoreshade and the Denny's; and I plan on running the Cutthroats with Scavy (once I finish assembling him), the Denny's (if the Nyss are in a tournament list and are unavailable) and pGaspy (i usually run trolls with gaspy so I can't put the nyss in those lists).
The question I have is at 35 and 50 point games is it worth maxing out these two units, or is running a min unit good enough?

My hypothesis is (with no real world experience with these models) is the max Nyss since they CRA and min Croe's because their abilities don't require larger unit - but I would really like to hear what people who have used the models, in particular with the casters I have listed, recommend in unit size.

[ZombieWar]

the price of the models (in point) implies that you should run max of each. That said I only run the croe's as a min unit in my scaverous list. I find 6 of them works just fine and at 35 pts I can always find a good use for 3 pts.

Hi Gerlak

[Cassiaus]

I tend to run specialty units like the above mentioned at min and save my points for tar put units at max.

[Iixil]

dont run nyss because i feel cryx just has better infantry to take instead. as for croes i usually only take a min unit. but in some lists i can understand bumping up to full with denny or scav. really my best suggestion is; make the call yourself and test out the results. nothing beats first hand experience!

[rydiafan]

dont run nyss because i feel cryx just has better infantry to take instead.

Disagree. With Denny1 nyss will murder 10 things a turn, all game long. Or just drop a POW 20 on a Parasited caster.

[Iixil]

Disagree. With Denny1 nyss will murder 10 things a turn, all game long. Or just drop a POW 20 on a Parasited caster.

disagree. with any caster bloodwitches will murder "over" 10 things per turn ( two weapons + death strike) have a mini feat to turn incoporeal after thier activation ends while shutting down tough and healing/getting healed, has gang, magic weapons, 7 spd and only costs 8 points for a full unit with UA. oh yeah and the UA has a weapon that can remove all upkeeps on a unit/model so can stab even your own unit to remove a debuff.

i face nyss all the time and my mat 8 blood witches with gang + mini feat wreck their ********s on a regular basis, many times without a single loss.

[Barrynstein]

Blood witches are great but i picked up croes and the nyss to add some much needed range to my army lists. Both units are only okay in melee so it is for flanking and ranged i really care about. I am also considering them for reinforcements.

[Canuberon]

Blood witches are great but i picked up croes and the nyss to add some much needed range to my army lists. Both units are only okay in melee so it is for flanking and ranged i really care about. I am also considering them for reinforcements.

Nyss "only okay in melee"??? This weekend they killed the Nightmare that failed to kill my caster, with only 5 of them. They have an incredible threat range (no reach, true) and weaponmaster. What do you need for a "good" melee unit? The fact that they give you the extra ranged threat makes them even better.

Croe's are rarely fielded by me without Dougal McNail for the extra 2" range. At that point I want a full unit to earn the most out of Dougal.

[Ulli]

Nyss Hunters are great.
With Denny1 you have up to 10 shots with an effective POW15 and RNG19 (RNG21 with Dougal MacNaile).
I like the Blood Witches a lot, but you can't do such things (or things like killing Warjacks) with Blood Witches - they have other things to do)

With Denny2 they are also fantastic.

The Nyss Hunters are a great melee/shooting-unit we otherwise don't have in our army.
They work wonders with good support (Denny1, Denny2) and are still absolutly great without (Goreshade).
Take a max unit of them.


With Croe...
I like the Cutthrouts with Scaverous (and sadly only with Scaverous). If you play 35-point-games, take a min unit, as Scaverous likes to have a lot of other models/units, too. So you often need the points elsewhere. If you go up to 50-points, take a max unit.
You should also consider taking Dougal MacNaile with them.

[gregoire]

6 Croe's. 10 Nyss for me.

[SpiderBite]

I've always fielded max units of each, Nyss (only) with the Deneghras, and Croe's (only) with Scavy and Doug/Gorman.
After reading the above posts, I'll probably cut Croe's down to min units (still with Doug, maybe Gorman) for 35pt games.

[Barrynstein]

Nyss "only okay in melee"??? This weekend they killed the Nightmare that failed to kill my caster, with only 5 of them. They have an incredible threat range (no reach, true) and weaponmaster. What do you need for a "good" melee unit? The fact that they give you the extra ranged threat makes them even better.

Well, not having fielded them, but having played against them I have seen they always seem to perform rather lackluster in melee. We have better melee units and so for me their above average ranged abilities are what I am using them for.
I could easily be jaded. It is hard to impress me with melee units when I have access to Banes, Blood Gorgers, Blackbane's Raiders, Satyxis Raiders and Blood Witches ...

[Barrynstein]

6 Croe's. 10 Nyss for me.

This seems to be the general consensus I am getting. Croe's can be a min unit but Nyss function better as a full unit.

Cool, I thank everyone for sharing their preference and experience. It gives me a good place to start.

[rydiafan]

i face nyss all the time and my mat 8 blood witches with gang + mini feat wreck their ********s on a regular basis, many times without a single loss.

If your blood witches are making it to nyss at all, much less with no casualties, your opponent is doing something very wrong.

[Iixil]

unless you run the witch coven as often as i do. ghost walking stealth bloodwitches and a good eye can do can do wonderfull things but even if i want to forfit the charge and run and block them i can still mini feat leaving them a wall of incorp witches they cant hit without extra help daring free strikes that wile likely hit and kill or just set them up for slaughter next turn. you can be surprizingly flexible with blood witches and they never need much help to deliver with average 21dmg on the charge and even without the charge they boast two weapons at ps 12/10 with gang ensuring they kill thier targets and get lucky extra kills to models poorly positioned and even more within 4 more inches and death strikes. honestly the nyss's abilities just dont match up to this "for me". but im gonna drop this issue here i dun wanna derail the thread any further, and say i mean no offence by my posts just i see the balance differently.

[rydiafan]

That's cool. Honestly, it's a pointless derail, as "who wins in a fight between nyss and bloodwitches?" is less important for the topic at hand as "which unit works with Denny better?"

In my experience range units are sick broken with Crippling Grasp and Withering. Your milage may vary.

[Adurot]

Crippling Grasp and The Withering would also really help that extra low pow attack the Blood Witches can do when they shiv a living model. The simple solution here is of course to take both!