What proportion mercs before it stops feeling like Cygnar?

[Ysthrall]

A spin off from Cygnar Powaaaah, this is to ask my fellow swans opinion on a rather subjective issue.

If you have a few points of mercs in a Cygnar army, does it still feel like a Cygnar force? Probably. A unit or so? Probably. 2 units, 3 solos and 3 or 4 marshalled jacks? Um.

This is not for competitiveness of models. This is not for comparisms. This is merely a poll:

At what point of adding in mercs do you look at the list and say "this doesn't feel like Cygnar any more"?

In proportions of points spent, please.

e.g.
0% ""Any merc makes it feel grubby"
20% "A solo here or there, or a small unit, is fine. "
50% "The battlegroup's pure Cygnar"
90% "Can't forget the squire..."
100% "Hey, I spent my jack points on Cygnar jacks, what more do you want?"

For me, it's at about 10% of the list. So in a 50pt list, if I have more than a couple of solos, it doesn't feel right. Mitigated by attaching Jonas Murdoch to them and having mercs painted in Cygnar colours, but even so...

[The Sentinel]

does a pirate skarre list not feel like cryx?

I don't know, but if I played cryx I would definitely play skarre with pirates

I don't like the look of long gunners, but I'd still use them in some lists

the things I like and don't like don't correspond directly with non-mercs and mercs

it seems weird to me that it apparently does for many people

[Varius]

I can handle a couple of solos, maybe a unit. Approaching half your points become a bit ridiculous for me, except for a very specific reason, like a pirate army.

[sleet01]

I'd say 20% in solos or small character units still feels like a Cygnar list. If I'm taking a non-Cygnar 6- or 10-man unit, it's a hybrid list rather than Cygnar list; "Cygnar-and-Mercs". If I'm running a Cygnar caster and one or two Cygnar 'jacks supported by all Mercs, it's a Merc list.

It's like the Vietnam war: on one end of the spectrum you're just advising somebody else on how to fight their own war, and on the other end you're doing all the fighting and the war belongs to you. In between you're fighting alongside one another to varying degrees, but you can't say the war belongs to either side alone.

[JamesDiGriz]

Generally I don't tend toward a couple of solo's and maybe a unit from the merc side of things.

I don't know when I would feel like I went over to the other side of the line though... I think I have less trouble with the thought of hiring local talent than most.

Also I think it depends a lot on the caster for where my percentage falls... Caine can run with anything and still be flufftastic, Nemo/eStryker I start to feel funny if there isn't lightning on it.

[Stephan Garmark]

For me anything goes. I've painted my Mercs in blue uniforms, so for me they're just Cygnarian soldiers.

[etherya]

10%, mainly eEiryss, Reinholdt & Rhupert Carvolo, alternate on my lists.

[perilsensitive]

Cygnar casters make it feel like Cygnar.

[veragor1206]

I never really gave it much thought, but due to it becoming an issue ...

I'd say including a unit and some solos still feels like a Cygnar army ... so 20%?

[Defenstrator]

The first consideration is point size. A couple of solos and a unit feel like a lot more at 25 points than 50. I think once you get to 30% you're doing more than just filling a hole, and at 50% you might be playing a Highborn army with a Cygnar battlegroup.

I actually have a merc army that is exactly that. I wanted a Llalese Gunmage warcaster, so my original Caine model was dragooned. He runs a couple of jacks and the rest is mercs all the way. If you could still run mercs as a secondary caster at tournaments I'd probably go all the way and convert the jacks so I could run Ashlynn, Caine, and Siege as a Llalese army.

[Steam Pants]

There's two answers for me:

1.) What I'm willing to do (and be begrudgingly okay with it): To be competitive, play up to 50%ish mercenaries as long as the mercenary minis I do play with aren't horrible looking. Can't think of any that are off the top of my head.

2.) What I'd wish it would be like (if it's true you need lots of mercs to make Cygnar competitive): No more than around 20% of your points spent on Mercs are ever needed to be competitive.

I think using Mercs is PP's way of filling in gaps and adding variety. So I think it totally feels okay to have Mercs adding some support to any faction's army. That's the word isn't it? SUPPORT. When Mercs start being around half or more of your points, then its like you're playing Mercs supported by Cygnar, and not Cygnar supported by Mercs.

[H'lingus]

For me anything goes. I've painted my Mercs in blue uniforms, so for me they're just Cygnarian soldiers.

i 100 percent agree with this. As alot of the merc stuff fluff wise was cygnarite at some point in there lives.they just want fame and Fortune instead of being ramshackled by terms of there soldier contract to fight EVERYONE.

[eKraye]

I'd rather play mercs supported by cygnar then... I like mercs just as much as cygnar... if anything they have just as much or more flavor.

[ricefrisbeetreats]

My normal lists right now are all the privateer stuff with a Cygnar caster and a couple jacks. Usually Caine.

In the end, I play what's fun and privateers are more fun than Cygnar units.

[Dashwood]

20% to 50%

I design my Cygnar list first, think about what I need to make certain tactics more viable, look to see if anything in Cygnar fits, then look at the Merc list to see who is for hire. I play a Cygnar forward unit, so I can justify very strange figures in my army.

The Mercs exist to enhance my Cygnar game, not replace them. That's my philosophy, and it works for me on the board.

[MollyHatchet]

For me the percentages are more like 20 to 30. I dont own any "units" (I dont count aiyanna and holt... Its just two solos that work together). Any more then that I feel I might as well just play Highborn and call it good.

[Dashwood]

For me the percentages are more like 20 to 30. I dont own any "units" (I dont count aiyanna and holt... Its just two solos that work together). Any more then that I feel I might as well just play Highborn and call it good.

To Soviet Khador, the Cygnar are the Mercs in Highborn forces!

[isawatsuke]

100% "Hey, I spent my jack points on Cygnar jacks, what more do you want?"

im a gamer and care very little about fluff concerns when making an army. Though ive never gone 100% yet. always had at least squire and b13.

[MollyHatchet]

To Soviet Khador, the Cygnar are the Mercs in Highborn forces!

Ok, that made me laugh out loud and scared the cat. She hates you now by the way.

I decided that I needed to get a faction other then Cygnar... and not Mercs. We have a few budding Ret players, and I despise Protectorate... so that left me with Khador... and I am finding them to be rather fun. Might take me a while to get away from Sorscha1, but untill then it will give me time to get some stuff painted, and figure out a second caster. Probably either Irust2 or Harkevich.

[Joasht]

I can spend much of my points on Cygnar stuff like jacks, BE, etc. but still have it feel like a Merc army because my units are Mercs.....

[H'lingus]

100% "Hey, I spent my jack points on Cygnar jacks, what more do you want?"

im a gamer and care very little about fluff concerns when making an army. Though ive never gone 100% yet. always had at least squire and b13.

i think im in love :3

[Nuriochi_sol]

Have 'caster, will travel... I often use Caine1 with almost all Mercs.

[A8mew]

Around 90% for me.

What makes Cygnar feel Cygnar to me is the 'jacks and warcasters, more than any other faction. Although to be fair I would probably never run a 90% Merc army- that'd be stupid, if only because it would mean all the list really has from Cygnar is a Squire and one warjack that's maybe an Ironclad at best. My pride really doesn't let me run something that could be called "'jack light"- I think my only 1 'jack list is eCaine, and its a Stormclad.

[Kugelfang]

I must be the oddity, because I would not feel right running anything but Cygnar in my cygnar list. I don't run any minions in my Circle list either. It just feels wrong somehow. Then again, I love fluff as well as gaming.

As a matter of fact, it bothers me when minions/mercs are included in armies in which they don't fit the theme...just weird to me. Not judging, just bothers me aesthetically.

[withershadow]

It becomes mercs when you run a merc caster.

[Dashwood]

I must be the oddity, because I would not feel right running anything but Cygnar in my cygnar list. I don't run any minions in my Circle list either. It just feels wrong somehow. Then again, I love fluff as well as gaming.

As a matter of fact, it bothers me when minions/mercs are included in armies in which they don't fit the theme...just weird to me. Not judging, just bothers me aesthetically.

Haha, and it gets worse when you see the same distribution of mercs on both sides of the table. CLONES!

[Kugelfang]

Haha, and it gets worse when you see the same distribution of mercs on both sides of the table. CLONES!

True that. I have a difficult time playing character solos because I might see them across the table and am very happy that no one plays my casters amongst my friends because I would honestly just have to change casters.

[Kugelfang]

Haha, and it gets worse when you see the same distribution of mercs on both sides of the table. CLONES!

True that. I have a difficult time playing character solos because I might see them across the table and am very happy that no one plays my casters amongst my friends because I would honestly just have to change casters.

[Juggernautie]

Hmm, guess you could call my Army Cygmer. Maybe I'll try that at Lock and Load?

[J. Beatnik]

For me, its about fluff more than anything. If I'm fighting in the Olgunholt league, you better believe I'm going to be bringing Rhupert. He's from Ord, and that's right next door to Llael and the Thornwood. As of right now, I'm playing my pStryker from my battlebox a lot, so its mostly Cygnar, since in his current incarnation (prime) he's doing a lot more in-military stuff and less desperate merc hiring. If I'm fighting trolls, khador, or protectorate, usually I'll stay in faction, since these are normal military threats. Skorne, Cryx, and Legion I will hire any and every merc in the game to eliminate these vile threats. I just see it as to what level of desperation has Cygnar gone to to fight these threats to their sovereignty?

Also, as a side note, I really like when people paint their mercenaries to match their army colors. It just looks cool visually. But if they use them in multiple armies, painting them neutrally is fine too. I'm a sucker for a good paint job.

[-Vinsent-]

100% - The caster makes the faction.

[Canfu]

I prefer to play mainly Cygnar- but I have no problem with bringing mercs- in any number.

I tend to justify my merc choices when I put them in a list. If I bring Boomhowler and his obnoxious band of garish trolls to a 35 point game, well- their job is to go die, so my Cygnarians don't have to. My caster has no qualms about sending trolls to their deaths, wheras sending full units of squishy Cygnarians to THEIR deaths is depressing. Similarly, if Reinholdt (who's got a thing for spikey hair and has a crush) wants to follow Kara around loading her rifle, so be it!

Who else... Rhupert? Well, my Precursor Knights are far too important to play a trumpet or drum themselves, so they'll hire a shoeless piper to inspire them (and make them feel even more shiny, by comparison).

Maybe it's my loose handle on the actual fluff that makes me immune to the cries of foul- or the fact that I play this game to have fun- but I feel that part of owning, painting, and customizing an army is to make it YOUR army. You don't have to confine your imagination to the script! It's a little tougher when you have character solos and casters, but I manage.

[Bladestorm]

I don't know that I could put a number on it, for me it would depend on whether the core of the force felt cygnaran or not, which is very subjective and somewhat personal of course.

On the whole I run a fair few mercs, where i feel they will work, but I have both Cygnar and Merc in my list of armies anyway.

[Istarune]

Actually, I have never fielded more than 1 unit and 3 solos from Mercs in any of my 50 point Cygnar lists...most take eEiryss and one other solo if that.

Wait, is everyone else counting precursors as merc units or something? I never feel like I'm tumbling over myself spitting Mercs out, or that I have ever been unable to be competitive with the boys in blue.

Hell most of my actual merc lists rely more on precursors and my borrowed LGs/ATGM to run properly than I feel I have any sort of strangling mercenary dependency.

[MollyHatchet]

I think most of us are counting Precursers as in faction... I know I do. And funny enough, so does the card.

[Hyd3]

I don't have a problem with ~50%. My caster is always Cygnar, and their warjacks will always be Cygnar. I just can't deny the raw power of Boomie and Nyss. I frequently run 80-90% Cygnar, as I really like SK's, Stormnouns, ATGM, and PK's. As such I almost never leave home without Rhupert or Reinholdt, though Runewood could do for Rhupert if all I'm running is SK's and I can't spare the points for both. But when I'm facing down Legion rule-breakers, I'm probably looking outside my faction for a fair chance at winning.

[under]

It stops feeling like Cygnar and starts feeling like Mercs when it's a Merc 'caster.

[Drogmir]

Seeing how in fluff Cygnar loves dropping coin on Mercs even more than Khador does. I say when you hit beyond 40% things are starting to look suspicious.

But yeah I just see the solos as rugged mercs advisory types I hired to keep Squire company.

And the units are auxiliaries.

[ItsukiShadow]

Does it really matter? I mean coming from mercs ment i had so many anyway it ment i could just buy caine and ol rowdy and have a 50 ptlist right off the bat with just ATGM and mercs... Oh and the squire. I consider that such a plus for cygnar mercs are there to fill gaps we have.... It also opens up playing styles and to be honest its fun having all different looking people on the table, cygnar is a melting pot of death to its foes

So being bias my caine list is 99% mercs add rowdy and squire and nuff said.

[PG_kill4koin]

under is correct!

As long as Leto is footing the bill, we act, behave and smell like Cygnarians...for some of us who played Mercs before we were a faction...we really don't see ourselves as a faction still, so it can't really feel like anything but Cygnar because there is no Merc faction. We meld into the other factions. So Haley with Thorn, a Charger and 36 Steelheads still feels Cygnaran...