Who would you bring to Masters?

[Snarkie]

Hello, I was just curious as to which three casters people would bring to a masters event and why. Things to consider include character restrictions, the fact that you can get locked into playing lists based on what you've played previous rounds, etc.

With the meta the way it is now, Terminus seems like an auto include. Other casters that see like they'd do well include eLich, pDenny, eDenny, pSkarre, eSkarre, and Venetrax. All replies are appreciated!

[Cursed]

If your going with terminus then take pSkarre becouse she doesnt really need any characters at all while terminus uses up quiet a few.

[SpiderBite]

eDen - always a good choice
eAsphyxious -ditto
pSKarre -nobody expects the mechanithrall horde in that format! bwa-ha-ha

[Cassiaus]

Terminus, pskarre, pdenny. I can run the same undead mob lit with all three and get good results. I would guess a big factor would be which casters you're most comfortable with.

[Snarkie]

Thanks for the input everyone. One of the reasons I’m asking is that as mentioned, Terminus takes a lot of characters like Wrathe and WSC. So while eLich is one of our best casters, he may not make the cut for a lot of people who choose to bring terminus since he loses a lot of steam without the WSC.

Something else to take into consideration is that each list should solve different problems. These could be anything from high def infantry to focusing on scenario. I haven’t played the p version of Skarre, but how similar is she to Terminus? They both seem to operate under the pretense of overwhelming your opponent and eventually getting an assassination (either from big T himself or from any number of infantry pieces or helldivers in the Skarre list). eDenny on the other hand seems to really want to play scenario by locking down people with her feat ASAP.

I don’t really think there is a single right answer. I’m just really interested in the rationale people use when picking their lists as I am trying to step my competitive game up

[Refyougee]

Terminus, pskarre, pdenny. I can run the same undead mob lit with all three and get good results. I would guess a big factor would be which casters you're most comfortable with.

This was my gut response. If you go pirates with Denny there will be little to no overlap with character models and your weaknesses are shored up swimmingly by the other list. Maybe Mortenebrah instead of pSkarre because pKrueger can go to hell.

[Deo85]

If Big T is your auto include then I would take eDenny for your scenario win easily. Her feat just screams low ball when you are put into a format that is scenario play by all accounts.

[yastobaal]

Over here in the UK we are yet to run a deathclock masters. Our open masters this weekend is 10min timed turns. So I've gone for Deneghra1, Skarre2 and Asphyxious1.

Edit: (Extra details)

Denny gets tartarus and nightmare, Skarre Deathjack and withershadow and Gaspy has the pirate package.

[Refyougee]

It should also be asked what pts level we are playing at. Gencon Masters is going to be 75 pts and that definitely shakes up our caster line-up...

[ZombieWar]

i was under the impression that in a character restricted format the WSC always went with big T.

[PG_Dmark]

If you take Terminus (Which I personally think is one of the most solid choices for a tournament), pSkarre is a great second 'caster since she only needs one character to be devastating (Gerlack), and her feat+Dark Guidance makes for a pretty hard hitting horde of McThralls that is essentially unstoppable, and if you find yourself with her having a charge lane to a key piece, do it. Most of the time, anything that stands in her way is wiped out.

eDenny is also a great choice because of her incredible amount of board control. Again, she doesn't need a lot of characters. Only Tartarus and Nightmare are something you wanna always field with her, and those are rarely fielded with Terminus anyways.

[Snarkie]

It should also be asked what pts level we are playing at. Gencon Masters is going to be 75 pts and that definitely shakes up our caster line-up...

Very true. I was just going with 50 points since that's what Warmachine Weekend will be at this year. I'm going to assume that most masters events will be 50 until 75 shows up at a few more events and looks like it will become the norm.

i was under the impression that in a character restricted format the WSC always went with big T.

Interesting. I thought they were pretty essential with big T due to the fact that he's majorly screwed if someone manages to get an upkeep on him (i.e. crippling grasp) as well as the free upkeep they offer him. If this is indeed the case, then that makes eLich a lot more viable.

[Snarkie]

If you take Terminus (Which I personally think is one of the most solid choices for a tournament), pSkarre is a great second 'caster since she only needs one character to be devastating (Gerlack), and her feat+Dark Guidance makes for a pretty hard hitting horde of McThralls that is essentially unstoppable, and if you find yourself with her having a charge lane to a key piece, do it. Most of the time, anything that stands in her way is wiped out.

eDenny is also a great choice because of her incredible amount of board control. Again, she doesn't need a lot of characters. Only Tartarus and Nightmare are something you wanna always field with her, and those are rarely fielded with Terminus anyways.

Would you forgo BLT with Terminus? I see a lot of players taking knights or thralls with him in order to get rid of possible threats (heavies, etc.) to big T.

I could also see pskarre benefiting from thralls and BLT, but I guess that's overkill (both in potency and point cost) due to how hard she makes mechtrhalls hit and how accurate they become with dark guidance.

[PG_Dmark]

Would you forgo BLT with Terminus? I see a lot of players taking knights or thralls with him in order to get rid of possible threats (heavies, etc.) to big T.

I could also see pskarre benefiting from thralls and BLT, but I guess that's overkill (both in potency and point cost) due to how hard she makes mechtrhalls hit and how accurate they become with dark guidance.

I don't use Thralls or Knights with Terminus. I use a ton of McThralls and some Blackbane's. Also, I didn't say to take BLT with pSkarre, but with eDenny. Now, Gerlack Slaughterborne on the other hand is going with pSkarre.

[max2323]

Alright, I have a quick question...Terminus almost always comes up as an automatic choice when it comes to tournament lists. I just don't understand why. Now, I'm not the best player around by any means, but I've got a fair grasp on it. To me he seems like an awful big gamble at a serious tournament. He needs to take a whole bunch of awesome solos and the WSC, depriving a lot of utility from other lists. And he has his feat...and that'...it? I mean, 2 turns of high arm/large number of attacks is great. But what happens when someone brings along one of those almost ubiquitous units that ignores/strips/damages you for having focus. I just look at him, and see all that focus on a forward playing beat-stick as a liability when there are things like Eiryss, Mage Hunters and the Forsaken running around. I feel much safer going with, in my opinion, equally powerful tournament casters like eDeneghra and eAsphyxious.

[PG_Dmark]

Alright, I have a quick question...Terminus almost always comes up as an automatic choice when it comes to tournament lists. I just don't understand why. Now, I'm not the best player around by any means, but I've got a fair grasp on it. To me he seems like an awful big gamble at a serious tournament. He needs to take a whole bunch of awesome solos and the WSC, depriving a lot of utility from other lists. And he has his feat...and that'...it? I mean, 2 turns of high arm/large number of attacks is great. But what happens when someone brings along one of those almost ubiquitous units that ignores/strips/damages you for having focus. I just look at him, and see all that focus on a forward playing beat-stick as a liability when there are things like Eiryss, Mage Hunters and the Forsaken running around. I feel much safer going with, in my opinion, equally powerful tournament casters like eDeneghra and eAsphyxious.

While all your problems would be true, most of the real threats to Terminus are ranged. This is nullified by sacrificial pawn to any undead model within 2" of the Big T. Use the Black Bane's Ghost Raiders, and only magic attacks are a threat for your sac pawns, who then have tough rolls. Your opponent seriously needs to have an extreme amount of magic ranged attacks to get rid of you sac pawns this way, and if they have that possibility, you'll likely be fielding either the Coven, one of the Skarres one of the liches or one of the Dennies instead of Big T.

[Scottl1]

My lists would be Terminus, eDenny and Venethrax/Scaverous.

I also rarely use characters in any list so character restrictions don't hinder me.

Terminus handles high arm lists since I run him with banes.

Edenny is a shooty based scenario list.

Venethrax with malice and bile thralls handle hordes or spamming of non living infantry aka other cryx.

[Caanos]

Use the Black Bane's Ghost Raiders, and only magic attacks are a threat for your sac pawns, who then have tough rolls.

Unfortunately, Terminus' Sac Pawn specifically states a non-incorporeal model. That means that Ghost Raiders can't be used to Sac Pawn.

[BilesyBelcher]

Terminus and either pDenny or eGaspy

Terminus would have WSC, Darragh, Saxxon and Madalyn Corbeau for characters, maybe the Deathjack.

pDenny/eGaspy would take Bane Lord Tartarus, Nyss Hunters and Gorman

[Kuwanger23]

If your going with terminus then take pSkarre becouse she doesnt really need any characters at all while terminus uses up quiet a few.

Two infantry hordes? You better pray that no one brings old witch, harbinger, or anti infantry lists.

[Korva]

Terminus with DW, Erebus, and Madelyn for characters. eDenny with DJ, Orin, and Gorman. Last but not least, eGaspy with the WSC, Gerlak, and BLT.

[PG_Dmark]

Two infantry hordes? You better pray that no one brings old witch, harbinger, or anti infantry lists.

Yeah, I thought about that problem, too, and then I made an eDenny list to accompany my Terminus list. None of the same characters, so that's great. Another one I've come to love along with my Big T list is my eSkarre list.

Unfortunately, Terminus' Sac Pawn specifically states a non-incorporeal model. That means that Ghost Raiders can't be used to Sac Pawn.

Aw... Dang it. Well, then the McThralls are ideal sac pawns since you'll just keep on respawning them.

[Scottl1]

Nah sac the necro surgeon first.

[Kuwanger23]

I like eSkarre and Terminus hanging out as well. I approve of this combo.

[Adurot]

Rev pirates are good Sac Pawns to just keep the leader safely behind Terminus. This way your pawns keep coming back. Not the cheapest option though.

[Snarkie]

Two infantry hordes? You better pray that no one brings old witch, harbinger, or anti infantry lists.

Yeah, I was thinking about this as well. pKrugar is another big problem for both those casters. Do you think having a third list of eDenny or eLich would work against lists that deal well with inf hordes? I figure with eLich, he at least has the ability to bring all the stuff the other player just killed back and then wreck face with it, but how bad is he hurting without the WSC since its with big T.? I'm not sure how eDenny typically fairs against anti hordes lists as she seems to want a ton of banes and satyxis raiders with her.

Another thought would be a pDenny pirates list. This list would allow Denny to pop feat after old witch/Harry and then everything just stands still and shoots. May still have an issue with pKrugar thoughim thinking.

[NecroticDischarge]

Terminus for most matches
Venethrax for those power spell casters (he is our best odd/mirror matchup caster)
And elich

[Snarkie]

Yeah, I thought about that problem, too, and then I made an eDenny list to accompany my Terminus list. None of the same characters, so that's great. Another one I've come to love along with my Big T list is my eSkarre list.

What do you usually bring with eDenny Dmark? What helps her shut down anti inf casters? I own eSkarre as well and agree that taking a Deathjack and Nightmare with her is pretty effective. However, I'm thinking that the Deathjack may go better with Terminus to help deal with things that could take him out and that Nightmare is better suited for eDenny. It's just hard for me to think about taking eSkarre as one of my three lists when we have so many other AMAZING casters.

Terminus for most matches
Venethrax for those power spell casters (he is our best odd/mirror matchup caster)
And elich

What characters go with eLich? Which go with Terminus?

I've been hearing quite a bit about Venethrax. I haven't read up on him in a while, but I thought he was overall a pretty weak pick. I know he's decent against most hordes matchups (but so is Terminus and pSkarre) and he creates clouds that Legion can't see through. What do you think he brings to the table as a third list that someone like p or eDenny or pSkarre couldnt?

[NecroticDischarge]

Lamentation fast infantry to tie up nodes super Tanky semi ok feat that denies alpha strikes when done propperly. I would give Thrax and ELich all the characters and just tier terminus as it's an excellent delivery system for him.

[Admiral_Arzar]

My list of casters would be:

1. Terminus or Venethrax
2. pDenny or eDenny
3. eGaspy or pSkarre

Combine and Wrathe go with (1). Tartarus goes with either Terminus or eGaspy. Gorman goes with Venethrax or pSkarre. In the current meta (and based on my experience level with them), the three I would be most likely to take are Terminus, pDenny, and pSkarre I think. The only characters pDenny really requires are Nyss Hunters and either a lesser warlock or Nightmare. Skarre and Terminus have no interest in any of these units. Terminus will probably take Combine, Wrathe, Corbeau, and Tartarus in this setup, while Skarre gets Slaughterborn, Gorman, and Blackbanes.

[Gamingdevil]

I, personally, would probably take:
eGaspy: Tartarus, WSC, maybe Darragh go here
eSkarre: big bad character jacks go here, take Satyxis (which she has Inspiration for) so you don't need BLT.
p/eDenny/pSkarre, probably pDenny: the Dennies work well with mercs, since they make everything better, so Nyss and Croe's + support would go here, not much other characters needed. pSkarre doesn't really need characters at all, although Gerlak is sweet.

[PG_Dmark]

What do you usually bring with eDenny Dmark? What helps her shut down anti inf casters? I own eSkarre as well and agree that taking a Deathjack and Nightmare with her is pretty effective. However, I'm thinking that the Deathjack may go better with Terminus to help deal with things that could take him out and that Nightmare is better suited for eDenny. It's just hard for me to think about taking eSkarre as one of my three lists when we have so many other AMAZING casters.

I don't use DJ with Terminus. Don't get me wrong, they're a great duo since DJ is not focus hungry in the same way most of our other 'jacks are. I tend to like Erebus more since he's four points cheaper and when you throw Ravager on him, he essentially becomes a large based version of Gerlack with more attacks, higher Pow and more durability.

My usual 50 point Big T list is:
Terminus
>Erebus
Warwitch Siren
10 McTrhalls
>1 Brute Thrall
Necrosurgeon
Max Blackbane's Ghost Raiders
Max Soulhunters
Darragh Wrathe
Withershadow Combine
2 Pistol Wraiths
9 Scrap Thralls (People tend to hate this amount of scrappies)

eDenny is a bit more tricky to build a great list around, but it usually involves three Arc Nodes. I've found that two usually get shot before you ever get the chance to shoot them, one is just even worse and the third is sometimes overkill, but that's what can grant you that last bit of magic stretch. I bring a lot of Bane Knights and I bring the Nightmare. Tartarus is always included, too. What you do against infantry is the following: Run a Node behind their lines, shoot Marked for death on their 'caster, slap Curse of Shadows on the unit blocking your approach, pop your feat, march up the Nightmare, next turn charge the 'caster which of course is your pray through the blocking unit and wipe out said 'caster. Pretty simple. If this fails, win by scenario. A typical eDenny list for me looks like this:
eDenny
>Nightmare
>3 Nightwretches
>Skarlock
2 Warwitch Sirens
Tartarus
9 Scrap Thralls (Again, people don't like these when there are so many)
2 Pistol Wraiths
6 Bane Knights
10 Blackbane's Ghost Raiders

eSkarre is easy to have a moderate amount of success with, but her real power comes from the amount of Perditions you can chuck out each turn. Therefore the Deathjack fits her the most in my experience. Two more focus essentially equals another Perdition. The Skarlock is also almost as much of an auto include here. The WSC would be, too, if they weren't better suited for Terminus' needs. My most typical eSkarre list is as follows:
eSkarre
>Deathjack
>Seether
>2 Nightwretches
>Skarlock
2 Warwitch Sirens
Gerlack
2 Pistol Wraiths (Thank Toruk these ain't FA: C)
6 Satyxis Raiders
>Satyxis Sea Witch
6 Mechanithralls
Necrosurgeon

In a three list tournament this is my usual setup and I'm always having a bit above average amounts of success with it. All three lists are pretty nasty to the point I almost feel bad for putting them on the table.

[Entiago]

I use Rev crew for Termys sac pawns. it makes my opponents sad

Also why not take Morty? You could use WWS and Seethers, Slayers and Stalkers. I almost auto take her in one Tourny list for the tv.