Sunburst crew are they any good?

[Mercy]

I know they can't move and shoot or boost with focus. Two of these units cost the same as a redeemer. They have the same range, but higher pow, rat and a larger aoe.

Why not use the sunburst crew as a ranged option?

[Blackraine]

The can't move and shoot part can be a big drawback, but yes, the Sunburst crew is (now) one of the best ranged options we have. I wouldn't replace a Redeemer with it (as the Redeemer *can* boost, can benefit from the choir, and has a higher blast damage with choir support), but I would certainly take it in addition to Redeemers. The Sunburst crew used to be kind of crappy back in Mk I, when it had a lower RAT, a POW 14 weapon, and RNG 14, and couldn't run to get into position and didn't have an AoE, but instead spawned 3" AoE's if the main shot hit directly, etc... it was just way, way worse. I still used it out of stubborn love of all things deliverer, but even though I used them nearly every game, I still admit that they were one of the worst models ever made for the Protectorate.

They're definitely worth it now, though, especially with pSeverius.

[Hashmal]

Plenty do. It's one of the best artillery units in the game. The reason most don't is that its role is accomplished better by our AoE 'jacks.

Melee heavy forces do well with one.

[jandrese]

It's the second best light artillery piece in the game. Which is what people call damning with faint praise.

I think it's pretty nice though. It has a reasonably powerful AoE4 that can clear infantry quite well, and a decent (but unboostable) direct shot. The primary target for single shots are ARM 18 or less warjacks/warbeasts. Once you get up to ARM 19 or more it tends to fall more into the just "plink off a box or two" range.

[Chase]

I am a fan of taking one or two when I am running a caster that can't really fuel a Redeemer with focus, or is using their focus for other things in the list.

In scenario play, I think they can be used very effectively when set up to create overlapping fields of fire on whatever objective needs to be held/occupied. I play against a lot of Khador and I really enjoy taking out a Demo Corp, Uhlan, or Man O War with one shot from a Sunburst. So many of my opponents underestimate it and end up leaving those units out of shield wall or out of position and end up regretting it.

pSevy is awesome with them, of course. Eye of Menoth makes them excellent at picking off annoying enemy solos.

Don't forget that they are a unit as well, so in opening rounds you can have Rhupert give them pathfinder to run into a forest and set up camp for the extra defense.

[Cannotcope]

Even though the Mk1 version was lame, I did get full FA for the same love of all things Deliverer.
I also would really like to see that mechanic in a future Menoth shooty jack, be it a character Reckoner or something completely new.

A hard hitting shot on a main target and some additional generated AOEs would be kind of fun on a Jack (hopefully with the ability to boost the AOE's damage via focus/choir).

As for the current Mk2 sunburst: It's decent, one of the better artillery pieces, which unfortunately is not saying much. Still AOE 4 is nice and pSevy makes it blast POW 9.

[jandrese]

Heck, why not just mount a Sunburst directly on a jack?



Man, I really need to get a picture of the finished product here. This one is so rough looking.

[Blackraine]

Wow, our colossal looks kinda small in comparison...

[Charming]

Aah my eyes! That thing is too awesome

[PG_KestrelM1]

The Sunburst is a fantastic artillery piece stuck in a faction with very little love for ranged attacks (at least for non-warjacks). It also has to compete with the Vanquisher and Redeemer, who have access to Choir and Vassal support, and are vastly more durable.

Artillery in general is also somewhat over-costed, in my humble opinion. The Sunburst just doesn't feel like a 3-point investment when compared with things like Eiryss or Nicia.

Anyway, despite that grim picture, the Sunburst is plenty serviceable. The POW, RNG, and RAT are all perfectly respectable. I use two with pKreoss quite a lot, and honestly I like them better than minimum Deliverers for the same cost. They don't have the volume of fire of Deliverers, but they also don't suffer from Inaccurate and are a far more legitimate threat to heavier armor, since they can directly hit without too much trouble.

They're also surprisingly fun as Reinforcements, if you enjoy Steamroller.

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

The problem with the sunburst is that it's part of a happy little group called artillery. This is a game based around threat ranges and angles. Having a model that's completely restricted to shooting things that are in it's immediate range and LoS can definitely limit it.

But what can you do? It's a solid gun with a good pow and range, and an aoe for 3 points.

[paradox]

The key to the sunburst is deployment. You may be able to afford a 1st turn run, but from turn 2 on, you want to be able to shoot that thing. RAT7 POW16 at 16" is pretty good. And a not-inconsiderable 4" AoE at POW8. Taking two really helps alot too, as you can get a cross-fire effect and more board coverage with one on either flank.
It can certainly feel point-intensive though.

I think Sevy 1 works them the best with EoM. RAT8 POW17 and POW9 blast is worth it, certainly in larger games.

It's 3pts of solid filler if nothing else. That's not to say there are not sexier 3pt options, but tis thing draws far less attention.

[Gavriel]

I like 'em for reinforcements. 2 Sunbursters and a vigilant can really ruin someone's day when they appear 20" up the board.

[JArrow]

As said, sunburst is the second best artillery, but I do not even play the best artillery in game (thumper) that often.

[maddermax]

As said, sunburst is the second best artillery, but I do not even play the best artillery in game (thumper) that often.

See, I think the Commador and Kardorian Mortars are probably at the top of the pile, which would put the Sunburst about 3 or 4 on the list of a dozen or so pieces. It's just hard to find the points to take one in smaller (35pts and under) when you can just take a Vanquisher and be firing twice with it, with continuous fire and boostability. That said, I could definitely see a use for them in larger battles, where points aren't quite as tight, if you can get them into a good firing position (a hill ideally) on an objective or something.

[PG_Steampunk Jim]

The Commador isn't technically light artillery, is it? Regardless, yes, I think they were referring to the mortar as the best. I'd probably put the thumper at 3rd.

[jandrese]

Yeah, the Commodore doesn't technically qualify. The Thumper's lack of AoE limits its versatility, which knocks it down a couple of notches in my book. The shorter range is also a drawback (it may sound crazy, but with light artillery there is a big difference between RNG 14 and 16. Basically, a lot of the targets you really really want to knock down are also the ones that the Thumper can't hit without really hot dice.

[Craaag]

I guess it's alright. Problem is it can't move and shoot IMO. Same problem all the artillery pieces have I guess. Why bother anyways when we have the Redeemer. Move, shoot and boosts.

[jandrese]

Well, the Sunburst does cost half as much and has a bigger AoE with the same power (assuming the Choir infused your Redeemer). Take two of them and you're looking at two POW 16 AoE 4s for the same price as 3 AoE 3s (plus a couple of focus), with much better accuracy too. The Sunbursts are about as accurate as a Choir infused Redeemer that is parked and boosting. The only real downside is that the Sunburst can't boost damage, or especially blast damage for when you catch one of those ARM 12 solos with 5 wounds in a blast. The Redeemer is also about a billion times better in melee than the Sunburst guys.

The real question is: Do you have the focus to feed the Redeemer every turn? If so, it is a more versatile piece than a pair of Sunbursts for sure, but it comes with some tradeoffs in AoE coverage.

[maddermax]

The Commador isn't technically light artillery, is it? Regardless, yes, I think they were referring to the mortar as the best. I'd probably put the thumper at 3rd.

To be fair, JArrow's post didn't specify light artillery like jandreses's did.

Anyway, as always the can't move thing is the problem, as you can't shift to get good firing lines. I do wish they'd made all artillery able to have some small amount of mobility, something like the crewmen being able to either give the +2 to hit or allowing the artillery piece to move 2".

[jandrese]

That might push the Sunburst up to #1, since it has two crewmen and would be able to do both.

[Chase]

The real question is: Do you have the focus to feed the Redeemer every turn? If so, it is a more versatile piece than a pair of Sunbursts for sure, but it comes with some tradeoffs in AoE coverage.

This.

It's all about finding the right tool for the right list.

[allenamenvergeben]

The sunburst is nice if you neither have the focus or the points for a ranged jack. I think of it like a long range rifle which can pick out pesky solos etc. I dont give so much thought to the AoE part. Last game it killed a Troll Felcaller Hero with a direct hit and nealy killed one of the Troll long riders, leaving it with only a single health point left. One of my daughters autoplinged it to death in the same turn. Not too bad for a 3 point long range weapon.