Should Pskarre be run with any helljacks?

[ZombieWar]

I think Pskarre is going to be the next caster i build an army for (i play scaverous atm). i understand her feat works as a force multiplier, meaning that the more models it can hit the better it gets. I would like to hear some experience from people who have played her before. Do you guys run her as purely infantrymachine or do you find having the odd slayer/reaper works well with her?

[Swatcoolice]

From my understanding the helljacks may not be required but she may love some small bonejacks such as the helldivers as they can still move up the field while the infantry machine works it's way across or even a scavenger to pick off injured and weak units. But she tends to be focus hungry unless you get a great roll off on her rit sac.

[Decade]

The only warcaster, in my not so humble opinion, that should be running helljacks is Mortenebra, because she makes them awesome. Now, the rest of our casters can run with helljacks to varying degrees. Dear Ravenmane is one of them. If you're using her focus factory trick (skarlock + 3 scrap thralls), she can run 2-3 helljacks and still have focus enough to cast dark guidance. However, I would only run one or two at most, but only after you've got at least two units of front line infantry, because that's what she does best: run infantry swarms.

[ZombieWar]

thanks for the feedback guys. I was thinking a vanilla slayer or nothing as far as helljacks go. I run a single slayer in my Scaverous list and have totally fallen in love with the cheap little medjack ( consider 2 legged helljacks to actually be medium jacks). with deathward he always seems to soak up a reasonable amount of damage and still kick out some solid punches.

maybe it will help if i tell what im thinking with her:

PSkarre

10x mechanithrall
10x mechanithrall
Surgeon
Surgeon
6x Bloodgorgers
Gerlak
10x Satyxis +UA
Satyxis Captain
3x scrapthralls

this leaves me 6 points which must be used on jacks. I am between 2 dirt dolphins and a slayer.

[Harvester]

I'd go with the Helldiver they tend to freak out the opponent and that is fantastic

[Swatcoolice]

Yeah they tend to unerve someone cause you decide when they finally get to take a shot at the them and can really screw with peoples plans. A fully loaded hell diver can still hit like a truck as well. For 3 points they cause a headache that alot of players tend to ignore until it hits them and they realise hmmm that little bugger is alot more dangers then previously looked at.... a bone chicken with a neat little trick... we don't have any of those do we

[Harvester]

Hits like a ton of bricks during feat turn :-) 3 x ps 18 WILL kill stuff

[Kuwanger23]

You need a Skarlock in that list......yes need. That is all.

[Corpazious]

thanks for the feedback guys. I was thinking a vanilla slayer or nothing as far as helljacks go. I run a single slayer in my Scaverous list and have totally fallen in love with the cheap little medjack ( consider 2 legged helljacks to actually be medium jacks). with deathward he always seems to soak up a reasonable amount of damage and still kick out some solid punches.

maybe it will help if i tell what im thinking with her:

PSkarre

10x mechanithrall
10x mechanithrall
Surgeon
Surgeon
6x Bloodgorgers
Gerlak
10x Satyxis +UA
Satyxis Captain
3x scrapthralls

this leaves me 6 points which must be used on jacks. I am between 2 dirt dolphins and a slayer.

I've run a similar list to that and it works well.
For 6pts, 2 Helldivers are awesome!
Another option for pSkarre is adding as many Brute Thralls as possible. If you go to min units of McThralls, you can add 2 Brute Thralls to each unit. They deal as much damage as Lights or Heavies or Collossals depending on Combo-Strike and/or Feat!

[Gamingdevil]

With that list, I'd probably drop the Bloodgorgers for a Skarlock, Saxon and a Brute Thrall. Otherwise you'd have too many bodies that have difficulty navigating terrain.

I'd go with 2 Helldivers (or one and use the extra point from what I suggested on a Stalker), but the Slayer could work. She doesn't have Deathward though, so apart from the feat turn, expect it to crumble.

[Ulli]

2 Helldivers are fantastic with her.
Stalkers (thanx to the new extended ctrl) and Stalkers, too.
Dark Guidance and her Feat do some wonders for all these little creapers.

I think she can be happy with 2 Helljacks as well. I wanna try the Harrower with her, soon.

[Teleologica]

Personally I like a heavy with her mainly because it tends to draw the eye and distract your opponent from what he should really be worrying about (the 20 MAT 5+3d6 POW 20 mechanithralls ofc )

My favourites (not a comprehensive list):

Slayer - not bad, cheap, sturdy enough that your opponent will at least have to use some activations to take it down. A little underwhelming if not loaded with Focus.
Reaper / Malice - in both cases, can be awesome at drawing enemy heavies in for the rest of the army to take apart. Given that Skarre has no direct range-extenders, some factions (I'm looking at Circle and Legion mainly) can otherwise out-threat our infantry and hit and run away.
Deathjack or Nightmare - I know they are nominally very different, but in reality with Skarre they pretty much do the same thing, ie hit ridonculously hard and then sit there soaking damage under the feat. I like them both, but tend to find Skarre needs DJ a bit less than just about anyone else, because he's usually not casting her spells.
Harrower - 3d6 on reach thresher attacks is funny, doing it at PS 21 and taking off units of Men-o-War is hilarious. Otherwise so-so, but that ghost shot can also be handy for picking off solos who would otherwise be tricky to catch. Thus avoiding Skarre being forward to Sac Strike.

Cankerworm - not a heavy, but he can pretty much do the same job when necessary. I love him and am currently using him in my 50 pt list with a spare WJP.
Node - to taste, but again, can hit really hard on feat turn, and allow at least for the possibility of the Backlash assassination, which I pretty much never do if Skarre herself has to get within 8".

[blakeh1]

I am definitely a fan of Helldivers and Stalkers with her, although I think I may try out a Scavenger instead of a Stalker

When I bring a helljack with her I generally bring one with a gun i.e. the Leviathan. She usually has no problem sparing FOC for it, and it gives you something her infantry lacks, a range attack that can be boosted. I typically will leave the melee oriented helljacks out and opt for bonejacks instead.

[ZombieWar]

why the skarlock? looking at her spell list im not seeing any spells that i would really be casting all that often outside of dark guidance.

[Harvester]

Skarlock for casting sacrificial lamb

[blakeh1]

Yeah, not using a Skarlock to cast Ritual Sacrificial is just an total waste. You bascially spend 2 points to have the Skarlock available to sac some cheap fodder model so you gain 1-6 additional FOC next turn. Casting it by Skarre is really a waste since you don't always get the return in investment on the FOC spent to cast it, while having it cast for free from a Skarlock is pure profit.

I often take a necrosurgeon for sac fodder even if I am not running mechanithralls. 2 points gives you a model you can heal skarre with after she feats, or cuts herself for additional die, and the other 3 models give you the first 3 turns FOC battery fodder. If your games winds up with a 4th turn, then sac the surgeon or mech thrall. Scrap thralls are a cheaper way to go, but I don't actually own more than 1 of them, plus I like having the healing option available.

[ZombieWar]

makes sense 2 pts for 2 focus a turn IS a good trade.

[Deo85]

as said Skarlock is for Ritual Scrificial. I will throw my vote also into the hell divers these guys have won me several games simply because you can't attack them till you dictate it which rly throws a wrench into peoples plans. The only other model I run with her is a ripjaw for the arcing and also a heavy hitter AP + 5 STR bonus is rough on any target.

[TheNatural]

I'd go with the Helldiver they tend to freak out the opponent and that is fantastic

I agree, they are a great jack with pSkarre

[Drzombieface]

The only heavies I've ever run with pSkarre were the Harrower/Leviathan, and never more than 1.

I really don't like using jacks with her, she's a caster that gets her efficiency from having more models on the board, and infantry gets that done better than a jack can. However, I like the Harrower because it offers multiple threats in its ability to still put down the hurt on her feat turn, while also being able to deal with infantry in general, allowing the hard hitting infantry to tear apart jacks.

My favorite jacks for her overall, though, are: (Taking into consideration how well they worked with her/How fun they were)

1. Harrower
2. Ripjaw
3. Helldiver
4. Stalker
5. Deathchickens.

[Rhin0]

Hmm. I like a heavy with Skarre.

Either, Deathjack, Erebus or Nightmare.

Its more for there high ARM during feat turn, as DJ goes up to 24. (the others to 23, standard Helljacks to 22)
Makes them a real pain to deal with. most things can't.

Or of course, Rip Jaws are amazing with Armour Piercing and +5 Str.

[PG_69Lazarus]

I often just run her with a Deathjack if I need a heavy and as noted before, she likes the Hell diver etc.

I mainly use her as a Tank and camp lots of Focus cause it scares the hell out of people. However, it was fun running several heavies with her once and just using that huge focus pool...lol

[Kuwanger23]

It's not points for two focus. Its two points for d6 focus. that's an average of 3.5 focus a turn.

[Sanctjud]

Two Levies in theme list is what I've used, she can usually handle the focus load.
The issue is using the AD bonus to have some ranged presence early game to balance out the infantry melee machine that is her normal lists.

[PG_69Lazarus]

I like power boosting a bonejack / Helljack and slamming or headbutting a heavy followed by pumping all of those Levi shots into the target. Save boosts for damage since you know you aren't going to miss. Adding in Dark Shroud from a Bane Thrall is nice too....(assuming all of the above you are looking at 4 shots at 3D6-1 on an Iron Clad chasis which will cripple it or even kill it on good rolls)

[FearMeMortals]

Am I missing something? I thought Dark Guidance is 4 FOC and Skarlocks can only cast a spell worth 3 or less.

[Sanctjud]

Am I missing something? I thought Dark Guidance is 4 FOC and Skarlocks can only cast a spell worth 3 or less.

Who are you replying to? I see no one making that claim.

[FearMeMortals]

Who are you replying to? I see no one making that claim.

Apologies, I had a bit of a brain melt moment. I read Dark Guidance instead of Ritual Sacrifice for some unknown reason (other than I'm a bit dyslexic).

[various]

i've found that she goes pretty well with Focus efficient Helljacks like the Harrower or the Seether. The Seether is absolutely brutal on the turn that she Feats and will likely scrap/mash anything that is in combat with it. Only downside to that trick is that there isn't usually enough of the opponent left to take advantage of the Grab and Smash chain attack, more than once i've killed outright a 'Jack/'Beast that i meant to peg at a 'Caster or 'Lock.

[Admiral_Arzar]

In response to OP: Absolutely not. A pair of Helldivers are the only 'jacks you should ever be taking with pSkarre. Her feat and Dark Guidance are both infinitely better when you have a lot of models. Also, heavy 'jacks have difficulty maneuvering among the vast number of models in Skarre's army (try playing her at 50 points, if you don't have at least 65 models you're doing it wrong - and there's basically no space on the table). Finally, pSkarre's army is all about fielding a vast number of models so some end up getting in there. There isn't really anything important for opponents to focus on which makes playing against the swarm very difficult. If you take heavy 'jacks you're giving your opponent an easy target to focus their attacks on, and also limiting the number of random dudes you can take. Your goal with Skarre is to attrition your opponent's army down to nothing and/or kill their caster with Helldivers while your army distracts theirs. Helljacks add basically nothing to either of these plans as they die too easily and will never make it through the swarm of dudes to get to their caster.

For context, this is the pSkarre list I play at 50 points. It's absolutely ridiculous and really only has issues with lists that can drop huge numbers of aoes per turn, or assassinate pSkarre from very long range (assuming they can clear out all the grunts in the way, which is difficult).

Pirate Queen Skarre +6
-Helldiver 3
-Helldiver 3
-Skarlock 2

10 Mechanithralls 5
10 Mechanithralls 5
Necrosurgeon 2
Necrosurgeon 2
10 Bloodgorgers 8
Slaughterborn 3
10 Satyxis Raiders 8
-Sea Witch 2
-Captain 2
10 Blackbanes 9
Gorman di Wulfe 2

[2LiveIs2Die]

forum group think: cryx jacks are bad.
real life: cryx jacks are fine.

I have played against a player using this list, and I have also used this list, and it's just fine

Pirate Queen Skarre (*6pts)
* Corruptor (8pts)
* Nightmare (10pts)
* Skarlock Thrall (2pts)
Satyxis Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Satyxis Raider Sea Witch (2pts)
Soulhunters (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Bane Lord Tartarus (4pts)
Darragh Wrathe (4pts)
General Gerlak Slaughterborn (3pts)
Satyxis Raider Captain (2pts)
Satyxis Raider Captain (2pts)
3 Scrap Thrall (1pts)
3 Scrap Thrall (1pts)

[PaintVagrant]

edit: this is directed at admiral arzar, not danny

While I appreciate your advice, and I agree that is the conventional wisdom on how to run Skarre1, I dont like speaking in absolutes. Skarres feat works perfectly well on jacks and she has access to a boatload of focus. There are lists that can shut down infantry swarms, and I think trying her with other options (crabjacks, wraith engines, light jack spam, etc) can make your list less netdecky and 1 dimensional.

No arguments that the swarm of mechtralls/etc are super effective with her, but I wont completely rule out running her with heavies.

[PG_69Lazarus]

It is usually best to have a hard target or two in your list....there is soo much anti infantry in this game already. I giggle when I see infantry swarms across from my E-Feroa list or when I'd be dropping 4 covering fire templates with my Cygnar etc.

[2LiveIs2Die]

Or harbinger
Or old witch
Or caine1
Or nemo1
Or haley1
Or feora1
Or kruger1
Or 2 units of stormfall
Or durgen
Or hexeris2
Or madrak1

[PG_69Lazarus]

Agreed. There is alot of anti-infantry available out there.

[Admiral_Arzar]

forum group think: cryx jacks are bad.
real life: cryx jacks are fine.

I'm pretty sure you didn't read my post, as I gave arguments as to why you shouldn't play helljacks in pSkarre, and never said Cryx 'jacks were bad. But considering you play the Corruptor, I can't really take your opinions about our 'jacks seriously anyways.

edit: this is directed at admiral arzar, not danny

While I appreciate your advice, and I agree that is the conventional wisdom on how to run Skarre1, I dont like speaking in absolutes. Skarres feat works perfectly well on jacks and she has access to a boatload of focus. There are lists that can shut down infantry swarms, and I think trying her with other options (crabjacks, wraith engines, light jack spam, etc) can make your list less netdecky and 1 dimensional.

No arguments that the swarm of mechtralls/etc are super effective with her, but I wont completely rule out running her with heavies.

I'm going to take this point-by-point. Yes, Skarre's feat works well on 'jacks, but her "boatload" of focus needs to be used for Dark Guidance and staying alive. Skarre is focus 6 so she has to play relatively close to the action, and she has low armor and the tendency to cut herself. She WILL die, and quickly, if you keep allocating her extra focus to 'jacks each turn. Yes, there are lists that shut down swarms - I don't take pSkarre in a tournament against somebody with a massive anti-infantry list (I take another one of my lists, as you play 2-3 lists in tournaments usually). However, I've found that the sheer size and resilience of her army can get you there even against some dedicated anti-infantry armies (I've taken down the Harbinger with pSkarre without much trouble, for example). Crabjacks and Wraith Engines are both bad, don't bother. Stalkers, Scavengers, and the melee arc nodes are decent enough with her on paper (Helldivers are amazing though). However, Skarre has no way to buff their threat range and non-Scavengers will have difficulty navigating among the sea of models.

Your use of the word "netdeck" in your post suggest that you should probably read my sig, courtesy of Defenestrator. There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing a list similar to another player's - often there's a reason why multiple players play similar lists. My pSkarre list is very similar to the other pSkarre player's in my meta - the reason is it's the closest to optimal we've been able to get it.

It is usually best to have a hard target or two in your list....there is soo much anti infantry in this game already. I giggle when I see infantry swarms across from my E-Feroa list or when I'd be dropping 4 covering fire templates with my Cygnar etc.

Uh huh. I build for a multi-list environment, and I would never drop this army against a Menoth player that had Feora. And against Cygnar, I would drop Terminus and crush you regardless of how many aoes you drop. But you can go ahead and keep thinking about ideal matchups all you want.

[PG_69Lazarus]

Uh huh. I build for a multi-list environment

Fair enough.

and I would never drop this army against a Menoth player that had Feora. And against Cygnar, I would drop Terminus and crush you regardless of how many aoes you drop.

Me specifically or are you just generally speaking? (Cause I don't remember calling you out lol). So if Terminus is your second list (while we are utilizing theory dojo), I assume it is also an infantry swarm? (My E-Feroa list loves both of those. Especially if you make your tough rolls so that you actually stay on fire instead of just dying. Waaay more focus for me that way)

But you can go ahead and keep thinking about ideal matchups all you want.

Having an anti-infantry build that also handles lots of other things is something that comes up often. As to thinking about ideal matchups, isn't that why you were dropping Terminus down on the table? (lol)



I think my overall main issue I have with regards to this topic is this:

try playing her at 50 points, if you don't have at least 65 models you're doing it wrong

I don't think my playstyle is wrong at all if I win games with it. Also, the change in scoring strength for units in scenario play has started to become an issue for some people. Having 4 Mcthralls / Banes or whatever left out of 10 can no longer control a zone. I have found that it is often helpfull to have other harder targets for that sort of thing.

[PG_69Lazarus]

Especially annoying if your infantry encounters something like a Reclaimer with a soul on him that the Harby is keeping alive effectively slaughtering all of your single would infantry you are trying to control a zone with (or many other such annoyances)

[PaintVagrant]

"you are doing it wrong" -some guy on the internet

[Barrynstein]

I use harrowers with her all the time. I dare say for me they are auto include. With DG up they need no extra focus. Strategy. Move and shoot, andif it misses hope for good deviation. Repeat until tasty infantry are in charge range. Charge - thresher - collect souls and profit.
Now next turn you have (optimally) a fully loaded Harrower who can now spend focus on boosting damage or ranged attacks.. All the while Skarre1 is using her focus however she pleases (porbably feeding 1 or 2 focus to the Leviathan I take as my ranged anti-jack option, to soften up jacks before they get into charge range and then I crush them with the giant pincer of doom!).

pSkarre is by far my favorite caster. The only issues i have is against Ret's Ravyn with that damned snipe - feat - shoot list. No place to hide and makes me pop the feat defensively and I hate that.