Durgen Madhammer - My New Favourite 'Caster

[dorkfest]

Originally posted on our little blog: www.boardgamesminisandmore.blogspot.com

Durgen Madhammer is becoming one of my favourite Warcasters. Admittedly the first few games I played him in, I felt he was underpowered and lacked the punch for a range heavy caster. Wow, have I been wrong!



Madhammer likes explosions... Lots and lots of explosions! He doesn't truly shine with his tier benefits or under a Searforge Contract. The real explosive energy of Durgen comes out in a Highborne Covenant or Syndicate contract. The Basher is the jack of choice for Durgen. I find myself running two bashers regularly as they can each flak field and give durgen 2 extra focus each turn. They are an incredible menace to infantry, particularly swarm armies as they can grand slam, follow up and then flack field. On Durgen's feat turn, that can be devastating. Then Durgen can Carpetbomb whoever got knocked down as he has arcing fire. Exposions galore! The Avalancher is a solid jack to run in his list, particularly marshaled to Thor Steinhammer. Having a range 15 pow 14 aoe 3 with boosted blast damage rolls on Durgen's feat turn is enough to scare anyone away.
The solos I most enjoy with Durgen are Herne and Jonne for the obvious scatter shot on a feat turn. They become lethal for infantry AND jacks alike. Reindholt is a nice addition as he allows Durgen to fire buster twice. Sadly he can't carpet bomb or case cracker twice as they are special attacks, but getting shot twice still sucks for your opponent. And, my latest fav is definitely Gorman DiWulfe. He would be good in any list, but his ability to protect Durgen with Smoke Bombs is helpful. Then when he gets close enough, being able to hit a scary jack or even a caster with Black Oil before Durgen hits them with Carpet Bombs. Fun times!

As I play with him more, I'm sure I'll learn more tricks and strategies to share with you. Until then, happy gaming!

[Tavitin]

What do you mean you can't carpet bomb twice?

[Thamarite Merc]

Dougal McNaile is Madhammers best friend outside of Rhul bar none.

[Havock]

Considering picking him up.

I like the rockram though, I suppose explosivo + feat + assault works?

[CyrDraconis]

What do you mean you can't carpet bomb twice?

As the OP noted, Carpet Bomb and Case Cracker are both *Attacks. You only get a normal one from Reinholdt's Reload ability.

[Thamarite Merc]

I suppose explosivo + feat + assault works?

Could you elaborate on what you think will work?
You will get an additional die on the Sledge cannon's shot and could boost on top of that, if you want to max your chance of a critical hit, but you won't get an additional damage die on the direct hit, as the feat only boosts blast damage.
And, yes, you could increase the Sledge cannon's pityful range by initializing a failed charge. On an actual assault, Redline would probably be the far better upkeep on the Rockram, though.

[dorkfest]

Yes, Dougal is a must have with Durgen when you're running outside of Searforge...which is the way you should always run him.

Here's my latest favourite 35 pt. list:

Mercenaries - Highborn Covenant
Durgen Madhammer
Basher
Basher
Blaster
Thor Steinhammer
Avalancher
Base unit of High Shield Gun Corps
Base unit of Forge Guard
Reindholdt Gobber Speculator
Gorman Di Wulfe

*or Master Gunner Dougal Macnaile

[CyrDraconis]

Yes, Dougal is a must have with Durgen when you're running outside of Searforge...which is the way you should always run him.

Here's my latest favourite 35 pt. list:

<snip>
Thor Steinhammer
Avalancher
<snip

Lots of people bag on the Avalancher, but I still love this combo. Pronto, maybe aim, maybe move, marshal the hit, tune the damage. Long enough range to keep back from the fray, more mobility then most people expect out of a dwarf heavy, and reasonable to high accuracy. Good power on a direct hit, AoE is just a bonus.
Take second go and you're hitting things pretty quickly.

To be closer to topic - I've runt his module in my Durgen list several times. Had several games where the Av just trundled up a side about a third of the way into the board, pounding away for four or five turns while my opponent choked on Halberdiers and Primed Risen. The super-accurate shot on a Bombs Away turn is nothing to sneeze at either.

[Robert Shepherd]

Regarding Thor with an Avalancher; point for point you're almost always better off taking two Gunners. Their threat range is comparable, their damage output is comparable (in fact it's better against single targets with ARM20 or less, and also against grouped infantry belonging to opponents who know how to limit damage from 3" AOEs), their firepower is more versatile, they're harder to shut down, they don't hog Tune Up, and you save three whole points.

[Havock]

My mistake, I thought it was all damage from AOEs, not just blast. Still, redline makes the Rockram pretty nasty. And I suppose that under feat turn, explosivo is pretty sweet for the critical effect. Primed kayazy will possibly become more hated than IF kayazy.

I also dig the gunbunnies.

[dorkfest]

I agree with CyrDraconis. I run Thor with Avalancher because of the ability to stay out of the fight, avoid the focus drain on my caster, while getting boosted attack and damage rolls with jack marshall and tune up is pretty solid. It may be because I find myself playing against range heavy Cygnar alot and filling my army with short range bun gunnies or drillers means dying before I get into the action. That said, I don't own any gunners, just blasters. Perhaps I need to look into picking some of those up...

[CyrDraconis]

I agree with CyrDraconis. I run Thor with Avalancher because of the ability to stay out of the fight, avoid the focus drain on my caster, while getting boosted attack and damage rolls with jack marshall and tune up is pretty solid. It may be because I find myself playing against range heavy Cygnar alot and filling my army with short range bun gunnies or drillers means dying before I get into the action. That said, I don't own any gunners, just blasters. Perhaps I need to look into picking some of those up...

That and if your opponent isn't packing move-enemy-stuff effects, or you can tie up anything that threatens such (ATGMs, slammers, whatnot), the Av can hold a point pretty well. He's a tough lump.

[bouncymischa]

Still, redline makes the Rockram pretty nasty.

I love my Redline'd Rockrams -- I just wish I'd remembered the +2 SPD bonus the last time I played him. Handy for getting Assault shots off, and I've had a Redlined Rockram with Tuned Up damage rolls take an intact Typhon (which had its animus up) down in a single turn. Scrunch.

[Bartacus]

Durgen is great fun, certainly he's my favourite merc. caster.

My usual jack load-out at 35 is a Rockram and a bunny or two on Durgen, with a Basher on Thor for the insane threat range.

Dorkfest, what unit is your usual primed target?

Edit: Your list looks over by 2pts by the way, I always find there isn't room for all the solo's I want too, there are just so many great options!

[dorkfest]

Good catch Bartacus, I edited it to show what I originally intended...

For primed... it depends on a lot of variables. If I feel the high shield gun corps is at risk, I will prime them. Otherwise, if I'm running agressive, I'll prime the forgeguard, charge them and then kill the unit with my caster to gain 6 focus. mwaahaa

[SevenSins]

Let's not forget he has some control abilities as well with inhospitable ground, although the abundance of pathfinder screws this over.
Anyone tried lanyssa to help this? It sounds nice in theory but she seems relatively easy to kill of as winterstorms ability is command range...

[MagnustheJust]

I take at least one Rockram when I run Durgen...

Rockram + Tune Up + Red Line + 3 Focus + Assault = dead whateveritwas!!

[CareyBear]

I'll prime the forgeguard, charge them and then kill the unit with my caster to gain 6 focus. mwaahaa

Nice idea except for the bit in primed about 'enemy' attack to detonate. If Durgen could do that it'd be pretty sweet.

[DocMerc]

Let's not forget he has some control abilities as well with inhospitable ground, although the abundance of pathfinder screws this over.
Anyone tried lanyssa to help this? It sounds nice in theory but she seems relatively easy to kill of as winterstorms ability is command range...

Lynyssa is awesome, but I use her pretty much exclusively for the Hunters Mark ability, and generally in a speed assassination list.
Allowing jacks to charger for free with +2 move is a very nice deal, Much better on Nyss Hunters though. But it does work well with Forgeguard

[Havock]

Nice idea except for the bit in primed about 'enemy' attack to detonate. If Durgen could do that it'd be pretty sweet.

It also means no chain reaction.

[dorkfest]

Nice idea except for the bit in primed about 'enemy' attack to detonate. If Durgen could do that it'd be pretty sweet.

Aw.. I was so excited about that combo.

Alternatively, you can shoot Dougal Macnaile to gain focus, as he has hit the deck!

[SevenSins]

more reliable would be paying upkeep for spells, then have some adjacent bashers flak-field at the beginning of their action to fill durgens focus before his activation, I'm sure your bashers have better things to do though....

Lanyssas hunters mark is good that's true, when combined with redline we get some decent threat ranges from our jacks.

[lastspartacus]

Durgen competes with Damiano for my favorite merc caster. His lists can have lots of tricks. Believe it or not, my lists favor highborn.
Never thought of 2 bashers. I feel I would want more hitting power but the 2 flak fields would be awesome. My 50 tourny Durgen list:
(Of course, I highly suspect Colossals will make me have to change every list I've been using.)

Durgen
Rockram
Basher
10 Nyss
Gun Mages with UA
Marshalled Mule
Ayanna and Holt
Thor
Gorman
Reinholdt
Lanyssa (Winter Storm/Inhospitable Ground synergy, and +2 to charge ofc)
Rhupert
Macnaile

[sleet01]

Lynyssa is awesome, but I use her pretty much exclusively for the Hunters Mark ability, and generally in a speed assassination list.
Allowing jacks to charger for free with +2 move is a very nice deal, Much better on Nyss Hunters though. But it does work well with Forgeguard

Gave this a shot versus a Gator list, but she got skewered by a Croak Hunter on P2's first turn. Maybe she'd do okay with a Bokur babysitting her but those 5 points come pretty dear; I'd probably rather just force people to use Pathfinder instead of other abilities (when it's granted / spell-based) and find other ways to deal with native Pathfinder models.

[CareyBear]

Alternatively, you can shoot Dougal Macnaile to gain focus, as he has hit the deck!

Yeah but if you hit him it's not 'blast' damage, it's just a dead Dougal. You have to MISS him with the attack but catch him in the AOE for it to be blast.

Note that this distinction is really important with Durgen's feat. When you hit someone directly with an AOE it is NOT blast damage and it does NOT benefit from his feat.
You DO get your boost to hit, as it's an AOE attack, but the model DIRECTLY HIT doesn't get a boost to damage as it is NOT blast damage.
See?

There's also a thread in the rules forum asking whether Primed explosions get the boosted blast damage on feat turn but no answer from an Infernal yet.

Durgen is komplikayted

[Kenlen]

Actually no, Dougal is immune to AOE's, if he would be hit by an AOE, he's knocked down instead. But he will suffer blast damage if it's not caused by an AOE, so be carefull with those flak fields.

[CareyBear]

Whoops, you're right.. got him backwards. I try to avoid him getting hit by anything.

[MagnustheJust]

There's also a thread in the rules forum asking whether Primed explosions get the boosted blast damage on feat turn but no answer from an Infernal yet.

I could swear {bad habit, I know...} that it was rule 'Yes.' many, many moons ago...

But then again, I am suffering from allergy-induced sleep deprivation at the moment.

... stupid maple trees. Syrup be damned I say!!

[lastspartacus]

I don't see the need to ask the question. Its blast damage, therefore is effected by feat. AOEs targeting mcnaile do no damage, I meant to ask on the rules forums if he can still be hit by them. The wording is very strange.

[PG_ikildkenny]

actually McN's ruling is quite straight forward - he cannot be hit by AoEs ... he simply goes KD when one would hit him ...

and yes, since primed does blast damage it is in fact boosted by DM's Feat

[dorkfest]

actually McN's ruling is quite straight forward - he cannot be hit by AoEs ... he simply goes KD when one would hit him ...

and yes, since primed does blast damage it is in fact boosted by DM's Feat

Yup, McN is pretty straight forward man. Not Komplicayted at all.

Lets chat about how to use Primed... I have lost a number of units because of poor placement while primed. I don't know that priming is worthwhile until your primed model/unit is in the enemy's face. Otherwise, the enemy can just take one out and potentially have it blow the rest of the unit like lemmings. Your unit has to be within blast range of the enemy in order to do damage. I have considered priming a sacrificial unit early, while keeping it close to Durgen and his Blast Armour in order to generate focus, but you get your 6 focus back at the start of your next turn, so there is no sense...unless you feel that an assassination attempt is forthcoming and you want to buff your armour.
The way I see primed working best is putting it on a unit you are about to send into melee. Unless you can create a situation where they are going to be a threat and need to be removed - and are positioned in such a way that your exploding dwarves are going to do some damage.
I have also put primed on a jack that is near destroyed. This way you tie something up so that they have to remove the jack and they take damage in the process.
Thoughts?

[dorkfest]

Also, has anyone tried lining up a primed model/unit and attacking a model with RETURN FIRE forcing them to fire at the primed unit? I play against Trolls a lot and the Impalers would be fun to screw with.

They would need to be the only available target which would be difficult to set up.

[Kenlen]

Nyss Hunters are a good unit to put primed on early. They are fast enough so that they can spread out and still concentrate for the big hit, they have pathfinder so they don't get bottlenecked by most terrain, with hunter they have no penalty from hiding in a forest and getting concealment on top of their allready high DEF, their armor is so low that it really doesn't matter if it drops even lower, and the +2 MAT, +2 STR are going to make them deadly in melee.

Have them scoot down a flank to get them out of your own way, have the piper run along to play Dirge of Mists for them, taking them to Def 16, and then when they charge he can switch to Heroic Call, letting you decids if you want to take a Tough roll when one of them goes down (if the Nyss hunter makes it, he don't go boom).

[PG_DaveZee]

Gunner, explosivo, powerful attack, means pow 6, 4 dice. 3" aoe's on feat turn?

[Kenlen]

Sadly, no. Explosive states that no effect of the gun is transfered to the AOE, and the feat only adds 1 dice to hit on AOE's and an additional die on blast damage (but not direct damage). So you have RAT 6 + 4 dice to hit (powerfull shot + feat), POW 12 + 3 dice damage on the directly hit model (powerful shot), and POW 6 + 3 dice damage on the blast damage (feat)

[agp24]

Durgen is my favorite Merc caster, too. He's basically the reason I chose Mercs as my second faction behind Skorne.

[Havock]

Explosivo in 'jacks is still better than buying the boost with focus though, on the feat turn that is.

[StJason]

Explosivo in 'jacks is still better than buying the boost with focus though, on the feat turn that is.

It's pretty good on non-feat turns too. For one point, you add magic weapon to the main target, and a 3" AoE that might get a second model. Not bad for a single point.
Throw a point of focus on a Gunner, and you boost ALL the attack and damage rolls for the shot, including under the template. Sexy.
Hits DEF 14 on average, direct shot through ARM 21, blast puts a wound on ARM 15.

[Hjelmen0]

Sorry, but you don't get to use focus (or Powerful Attack) to boost the damage from the Explosivo AoE. No special rules carry over to the AoE at all, not Powerful Attack, not Magical Weapon, not even Focus: Boost. The only thing I know of that can add dice to the AoE from Explosivo is Durgens feat ...

[sleet01]

I hear Explosivo might be in line for an errata, like Shield Guard. I wonder how that's going to play out...