moving from 35 to 50 pts.

[bchatzis]

So far my 35pt army consists of:

pKreoss

Vanquisher
Reckoner
Redeemer

Exemplar Errants full + UA
Exemplar Errant Senny
Choir min
Vassal
Vassal Mech
Wrack

For 50 pts, I was thinking of adding:
Avatar,
Avatar's personal choir,
then either covanent of menoth or a reclaimer for extra focus.

please tell me what you think.

[bchatzis]

Can anyone help? please?

[bchatzis]

31 views and no feedback?

[andrewbwm]

Avatar is a solid choice. I'm not sure he needs his own personal choir, but might be worth it.

The reclaimer is not the best choice, you have KEE, self sacrifice will deny you souls. I'd go for The Covenant or another Vassal.

Otherwise some good, standard, lists.

With Avatar and Wracks you won't get that focus starved, if you do have that problem consider a Hierophant.

Also, if you have played some games with the 35 points list you can let us know how it went so that people can see what your playstyle is.

[bchatzis]

Ok, great! Thanks for that. I didn't know the sacrifice denied souls, in that case a reclaimer would be pointless. I think i will go with the covenant. I haven't given the 35pt list a full try out yet, I thought I would get a 50pt list ready if it went well. With a similar list at 25pt - without the redeemer and min errants, I found it worked really well. I can only see the addition of the redeemer and extra errants as a massive bonus for that feat turn. I've fallen in love with my Reckoner, last week when I played he really saved me backside. I'm playing this Thursday so I will be sure to let you know how 35pts goes!

[shady]

at 50 points i would add a wall of Bastions infront is allways a nice thing to soak up allot of crap your emeny has to throw at you. all for 8 points since you have the self sac guys i would suggest getting the other knights. Knights Examplar 6 for 5 is a great deal and they have a great kill 1 and plus 1 arm and str( Remember thresher attacks or attacks that are at the same time dont tigger this effect till their all dead) your good with your jacks i see just add some infantry maybe if you like Holy Zealots with the UA 8 points for a very good mini feat and Fire BOMBS are wicked.

[bchatzis]

I just don't see how I can make any room though!

[andrewbwm]

I just don't see how I can make any room though!

Just play the 50 points list you feel comfortable with, see how that works out.

Bastions are pretty cool, but far from autoinclude.

Some stuff usually performs better than expected and some stuff worse. See what you like and don't like and then decide what you should change.

[bchatzis]

Ok, I really appreciate all the help. After I play a bit il re post how the games went

[bchatzis]

I'm Going to say something that will either work or it's stupid, please be honest. Get rid of covanent, 1 choir, and vassal mech for gravus?

[andrewbwm]

I'm Going to say something that will either work or it's stupid, please be honest. Get rid of covanent, 1 choir, and vassal mech for gravus?

Same problem as the reclaimer, Self Sacrifice denies you souls. And I also think that you want more infantry when you take Gravus. You can drop the Covenant, choir and the mechanic, but taking Gravus will not help all that much.

But why do you want to take him in the first place?

[bchatzis]

Just thinking different ideas, I have one more. I recently was on the receiving end of Eiryss Mage hunter, she's pretty darn powerful! What if from the original list I take off the covanent, the avatar's personal choir, max the other choir and add Eiryss?

[andrewbwm]

Just thinking different ideas, I have one more. I recently was on the receiving end of Eiryss Mage hunter, she's pretty darn powerful! What if from the original list I take off the covanent, the avatar's personal choir, max the other choir and add Eiryss?

That could work, Eiryss is a pretty good solo, and you don't really need that second choir all that much.

[bchatzis]

so do you think that one unit of min choir will suffice?

[iFayt]

Unless you can serious protect your Choir, I feel having 4 Choir for 4 Jacks is not very safe. If just 1 of the Choir get sniped, one of your jacks suffer. I think I would be wise at 50 pts to spend the extra point for the full max choir. I would also try getting a 2nd Vassal for sure!

[bchatzis]

yeah, i can max the choir, but then I have 1 point to spare which i could spend on a mech. Otherwise I'd have to get rid of eiryss. if i get rid of her I can max the choir, get a covanent and a vassal. Would that be worth it?
my list would be:

pKreoss
Avatar
Reckoner
Vanquisher
Redeemer

Full Errants with UA
Full Choir
EE Senny
two vassals
Wracks
Covanent.


Alternative one
pKreoss
same jacks

full errants with UA and Senny
2x min choir
epic eiryss
vassal wrack

[iFayt]

I personally dont like the idea of wasting the point to get 2 min choir.

The main list looks good to me. The only 2 alternatives I can think of is:

1) If you really want Eiryss, Drop the senny and wracks for her.

2) Drop the Senny and add Rhupert to give Errants Tough.

[bchatzis]

the senny gives hunter though? Is that not worth it? I understand how tough can be handy because the errants get a lot of heat put on them. I just thought the senny was going to be the best. Also, I need the wracks to help with focus, Running three jacks with pkreoss will be kinda tough without it? especially with the focus hungry redeemer.

[iFayt]

Well Senny vs Rhupert is really up to you and who you are facing. Is there a lot of terrain on the board? Yes? than Senny might be better.

I think that my Errants are going to shoot as much as they can but honestly with a Vassal Vanquisher and maybe Vassal Redeemer...That is 6 AoE blasts that is probably going to wipe out most of what your Errants wanted to shoot at anyways. I personally think Tough holds a little more weight than the Hunter ability. If anything I feel Visgoth Juvian Rhoven would be good as with "Menoths Gaze" it allows your Errants to ignore stealth. All in all Book preventing knock down/stationary and Tough would be a lot more annoying and would allow your errants to get into melee safer where you will do the most damage. Exspecially after poping Kreoss' feat.

As far as the Focus goes. 7 Focus is pretty good TBH. You will be upkeeping D Ward and Lamentation putting you at 5 focus per turn. Avatar doesnt need Focus, Vanquisher doesnt really need focus unless you want to boost. Reckoner only needs 1 to run/charge until he gets into melee, at that time you wont need to dump focus into the redeemer because everything is probably dead or in melee at that time and the Redeemer only needs 2 focus to shoot off his AoEs. While it is a little tight, its just something you have to play around with and see if that 1 Focus makes a difference for you.

[bchatzis]

ok great, thanks for your advice. I will definitely think about rhupert. Maybe eiryss isn't worth the 3 points, and I should put in a covanent and extra vassal instead.

[iFayt]

Dont get me wrong, I think Eiryss is amazing, exspecially the epic version. Shes got an amazing RAT 9 and if shes attacking a heavy ARM unit she can just do the 1 point of damage and disrupt them the next turn. With a DEF of 16 and having stealth+camouflage, she is going to be very hard to take down.

The Covenant and the extra Vassal really support the army by preventing the Errants from being knocked down or denying spell casting in the books AoE. Vassal as you know is just amazing.

Thats the problem with playing Menoth imo, they have so many good things, its hard to add in everything you want without going overboard.

I hope with my limited knowledge I have at least helped you a bit. I personally dont have a lot of playtime experience. Most of my knowledge is from MONTHS of constant research while ive been deployed and simply watching/reading battle reports.

[bchatzis]

yeah, I will try a couple of things, see what works what doesnt. If i dont use eiryss in this list, Im sure I will use her for one in the future.