Giving Uhlans a Second Look

[Joasht]

The Uhlans have always been a love-hate relationship for me. On one hand, I like cavalry, or at the very least, the concept of it rather than the rules. The problem I have however, is that the rules have always felt a little bit "short" to me, and those things are too expensive for me to "buy and try out" - although I openly admit this is my own problem due to my reluctance to proxy.....or play with unpainted Khador models.

I've given it some chance, at least in theorymachining, with casters like eVlad or pIrusk (mostly for their feats), which I think boost their hitting power/survivability up that bit to make them suddenly far more legit. However, its probably time to look at stuff that doesn't die to random low-POW shenanigans, which the upcoming book(s) is(are) sure to bring. While MoW are always an option for these purposes, they are probably too slow for this application (the Drakhun of course being an exception).

What are your thoughts on them, be it past experiences, or their potential in the (possibly new upcoming) meta?

Thanks!

[profparm]

I don't know how useful it is to speculate without seeing the new rules or anything, but I bet legendary Vlad, being on a horse, will either buff or at least synergize with other models on horses. Plus with eVlad, the long-rangedness definitely seems worth it. (14" charge range, 22" range to run and engage if you really need to.)

[dangerparty]

I've always had good experiences with Uhlans as either a flank, or a line breaker. I've played my share of games where they smash right into the front line and cause general havoc tying up the other army until my main force gets there. They've gotten the kill for me in several games. I usually field them as a minimum unit, but when I pick up Markov in the next few weeks I'll begin fielding the whole. As a flank, they hit way too hard to really ignore.

[MediumYellow]

People have some pretty silly ideas about them and that is upsetting to me.


For one, you have to think about why you are using these units. To me, I already have good infantry that can do its very awesome things in all of my lists. So when I build a list I stop thinking in terms of "Well for 11 points I could get Kayazy Assassins and a war dog". I already have that, and too much infantry brings diminishing returns.

So I take a look at all my units that I am going to try to win the game with, basically I think about Great Bears, Doom Reavers, Drakhun, etc.

The Uhlans in my opinion are good for this role. They are fast and hard hitting. You can keep them in the back until turn 4 when you want to kill a caster, a favored warjack, beast, whatever. They are also hard to just snipe out. So when people say things like "They charge good but then they don't do anything" I can't imagine why they needed to do anything but charge after that.

[Tossy]

Uhlans are great and I use them a lot.

You can hide them well because they can get to cover. They work wonders charging through forests from the flank and people really do not expect their charge range. People always seem to complain about them being stuck in combat but Mat 7(from memory) and a horse attack usually clears anything away from them they do not want around.

I see no down side... Plus an assassination run with eVlad is gross. Just don't forget you can clear miniatures from in front of them with the horse on a charge with Heavy cav rules

[PG_screamindaemon]

I second that claim.
eVlad, 5 Uhlans, add in Markov or Drakhun to season. They hit like a truck. A large truck. Filled with explosives. Long range explosives.
My personal favourite way to take down Terminus.

Yes, after the charge they aren't as smashy as before. They don't have reach, blah blah. I tend to not charge them into a horde of infantry. If you do, you risk screwing up your heavy cav charge lanes, or whatever that rule is where you ride over enemies.
I use them on the sides where mass infantry are not present. Or go for a lucky knockdown.

Having said that, I won't take them without eVlad...

[Dizzle]

I've been on the receiving end of a full unit with pButch and it's mean.

They hit at P+S 19 with a 4d6 damage dice charge under fury and his feat plus they add a nice speedy element to his list.

[jdeckert]

I've only tried them with eVlad so far, but man have they been awesome. Two of them can scrap a heavy with the feat and hand of fate. Then they're hard to remove after that, and can often get a second charge if needed. I run the full unit of them with Markov and run a drakuhn for good measure.

[PG_Duckboy]

Ran them in vlad2's tier list and were effective against a satyxis swarm. Put hand of fate on them and feated first turn to get some good jamming action going.

[Crazy Uncle Doug]

Uhlans are probably the second best cavalry in the game. When they hit, they hit hard and strong. Just be careful not to let them get bogged down in straight melee. They like to charge.

[mcpolle]

Seriously?? Second best cav unit in thew game??? Might not agree with that, but yup, they sure do hit hard, also should play well with pIrusk, with feat and Battle lust, so we are up to mat 12 on the charge and 4d6 :-)

Polle

[scout's honor]

Uhlans are probably the second best cavalry in the game. When they hit, they hit hard and strong.

Which cav doesn't hit hard and strong, when they hit? Honestly, I find it hard to argue them being second best in Warmachine alone. If you compare them to Hordes infantry it's not even a contest.

[x3tsniper]

I will forever hate the tharn wolf riders, the prey really gets me when you include hunter. Skorne's cavalry is exceptional with Zaal. I kill casters with them so easily. I don't see trolls cav that much, but the ability to pow 14 slam is pretty nice. Legions are basically another version of the tharn. More range, without prey.

In general I see hordes playing their cavalry a lot more than I see it in warmachine. I feel like most warmachine factions require a certain list that can run cavalry. Most Hordes can throw them into any list. I wouldn't do it with the ferox, they aren't very amazing stand alone, but they are probably the most maneuverable cavalry pre attack with a 17" threat walking + jump, not counting a caster's spell, such as savagery for + 5". Oo

[OrsusSmash]

Uhlans are a bit of a finicky unit. I've used them with most of our 'caster crop at one point or another, and I feel that they work best with anyone who can buff their damage output. This is because the Uhlans tend to be a one-shot missile: once they get the charge off, they're very likely going to stay tied up or be killed afterwards, so you need to make that initial impact count.

In that regard, they can be very valuable. Uhlans have the highest base P+S hitting power out of any of the heavy cav in the game, and with any kind of buff you're looking at warjack levels of hitting power. When you combine that with their high threat range, ability to charge through terrain without penalty, and accurate charge attacks (thanks to the universal cav charging attack bonus,) you get a unit that is great at putting a really big dent in a heavy enemy target.

Due to their mediocre MAT, "heavy hunting duty" is what Uhlans are best at (though if they can get a charge off on a 'caster, that usually ends badly for them as well!) Even with their two attacks when not charging, they don't really have the MAT to chew through any infantry they get tied up with. As a result, Uhlans tend to be a a bit of a "specialist" unit - you bring them to hunt heavies, and bring something else to keep enemy infantry in check.

Also, while Uhlans are durable enough to live through a lot of things that would shred normal infantry, they're very vulnerable to any boostable/scalable shooting (i.e. CRAs.) You definitely need to be careful with them on the approach, as they're expensive enough that you can't afford to have one or two picked off early if you can help it. Uhlans are hard hitting and fast enough that they absolutely will draw the attention of the guns most likely to kill them, so try to jump between terrain pieces as much as possible, or use their SPD to stay out of range from as many of your opponent's guns as possible.

Because Uhlans don't handle infantry particularly well, I really like to include Markov with them. Markov brings his Warhead attack to the party, which can help keep enemy infantry in check, and if nothing else he can chip in another high P+S hit (with Precision Strike, which is great vs. warjacks.) His other bonuses are really nice as well: Fearless keeps the Uhlans from bolting at an inopportune time (read: ever, for how expensive they are,) and his Elite Cadre helps the Uhlans more easily maneuver through each other when it comes time to charge (really helpful for a unit that spends all it's time in B2B.)

Overall, Uhlans can work well, but they're very expensive. They're a very finesse-y unit, because 90% of the challenge of using them is getting them to their target. After that, their output is solid (3-5 boosted 16's is very respectable, and would cost us quite a bit of focus in warjack attacks otherwise.) However, I've had a hard time justifying their inclusion when it's usually much easier to take another warjack or unit. As we move forward into a meta more rife with auto-damage templates, massed POW 10's, and other anti-trooper measures, I definitely want to take a second look at Uhlans (unless, miracle of miracles, we start to get warjack support here soon!)

[nerdkingdan]

Help me out here, don't they hit each other getting back into base to base at the charge. Sure they don't hit each other at the start have not moved 3 inches. But at the end if they make contact with each other that procs a impact attack.

[scout's honor]

Help me out here, don't they hit each other getting back into base to base at the charge. Sure they don't hit each other at the start have not moved 3 inches. But at the end if they make contact with each other that procs a impact attack.

Impact attacks are not mandatory. If your model moves B2B with another model you can choose to make impact attacks or not to make them. You do have to make an impact attack against all models in melee range (including your own) if you choose to make impact attacks at all though, it's all or nothing.

So when moving into B2B with another Uhlan to get Defensive Line, you can choose not to make impact attacks with the Uhlan that moves into B2B, the downside being you won't be making impact attacks against enemy models with that Uhlan either.

You can choose whether or not to make impact attacks with each Uhlan separately as well. That means for the first Uhlan you'll normally want to make them, and then if you move in with the others and want to get them B2B you'll want to evaluate if it's worth taking the impact attack damage with the previous Uhlan in order to be able to impact the enemy models or not.

[x3tsniper]

Don't forget, that since they can move through each other, you can move the one closest to the rest of the unit first for impact attacks. That way the impact attack coming afterwards won't hit the previous one, since they don't turn to face their target until after the impact attack. Facing is a big part of the impact attack. This is assuming you are coming from the side. You could also do this from a straight forward charge, but you will probably only get 4 impact attacks at best.

I would diagram this for you, but I am lazy. >.>

[nerdkingdan]

Where does it say optional. Is this a rule change outside of the book?

[Havock]

Do impact attacksreally threaten these guys though? Move into contact = defensive line?

[scout's honor]

Where does it say optional. Is this a rule change outside of the book?

It's not a rule change, that's how it was always supposed to be. It's been clarified by an Infernal in the Rules forum though.

[Frege]

Do impact attacksreally threaten these guys though? Move into contact = defensive line?

From memory their mounts have critical: knockdown (or am i thinking of drakhun???) You don't want kd your own dudes in their activation.

[PG_General Nemo]

Uhlans are great! Not for every warcaster, of course, but they're almost guaranteed the first hit and they can soak up quite a bit of damage when you throw them at light or medium targets. If you're not sure, proxy them in a casual game! I think you will be pleased with their performance.

[PG_ThatRickGuy]

With Markov they can move through eachother. And Impact hits happen during movement (as soon as you get into b2b) so if you angle it just right, you can charge through a Ulhan, get b2b with the enemy model, take your impact hits while the other Uhlan isn't in your front arc, then turn to face the charge target. It's situational, but you can sneak in an extra impact hit from time to time doing so.

-Rick

[Tico Love]

Where does it say optional. Is this a rule change outside of the book?

Yes, the Official Errata changes the wording from "makes impact attacks" to "can make impact attacks"