35pt Fiora Thoughts
Min Nyss Hunters
Min Croes Cutthroats
Min Kayazy Assassins w/UA
Alexia & the Risen
I have the assassins, I can get the eliminators if people feel they are the better choice. What to do with the extra points then? Is it worth dropping down to two units, maxing one or both?
Normal enemies are Cygnar, Khador, Gatormen, and Retribution. Welcoming advice.
Dirty Meg may be a better Marshall for the Buccaneer than Rutger, as long as you don't mind it ending up in melee.
I think taking your 3 minimum sized units and making two max sized units would be better. I'd probably go with Kayazy Assassin and Nyss Hunters. I like Croe's, but they are probably not the best choice for Fiona. They like casters who can give them to-hit buffs, though the Buccaneer can give them that.
Would 2x Eliminators + Aiyanna/Holt be better than the Assassins?
That's a great idea.
Originally Posted by maomolin
I'm hoping to get a greater sample of opinions on this. If I swap the assassins, the need/purpose behind fiona (specifically her fairly unique buffs) dwindles, and I may be better off with McBain or pMagnus (Sorry, I detest eMagnus).
Originally Posted by Tavitin
I have a preference to Shaw's rerolling (with boosted via normal marshaling benefit) with the net (Rat 5) over Meg's charge, inversely some of my opponents do not share this preference (may be skewed due to what side the buccaneer is on).
Last edited by maomolin; 05-29-2012 at 11:37 PM.
I don't think dropping the assassins makes Fiona any worse of a choice. Affliction plus low pow shooting(or melee...Risen) is pretty good against high-arm targets. Roth's Mercy can keep the head Nyss Hunter alive for much longer, keeping their CRA available in case affliction is out of position. Plus, Eliminators make a great arc node.
Dropping the assassins would remove a target for nonokrion brand. I think a better idea would be dropping alexia & risen and rhupert for the kayazy assassins, keeping the nyss hunters & eliminators.
I am gearing this with steamroller in mind, and think domiano could support alexia a little better (death march) and with croes (deadeye) and boomhowlers (deadeye & surefoot).
In this case, who would sylys be better with?
Nonokrion Brand should be on your ranged jack (which you don't have....LOL). I like both Rociante for the +2 Defense from close and good Rat and the Mariner for Lash. Both are solid with her.
One of the Eliminators makes a fantastic Telegesh Mark model due to their good movement and side step.
The Nyss can have Nonokrion Brand and Roth's Mercy cycled to them. Who were you planning on keeping Roth on? If you put in Aiyanna and Holt then you can cycle those spells on them too. It's nice to be able to ignore a target with Nonokrion for Kiss and then Kill Stroke too it with Kayazyi or Acrobatic move (whichever) after two PS 14 Handcanon shots from Holt.
Wishnailer is good on either one of those casters but I'd go with Fiona if I had to choose for the simple fact that he has that little signs and portents ability so she can get a little more out of him than Amador but not much. It also depends on the jack load outs. I like to run Fiona with two heavies personally and Amador with only 1. That gives Fiona another nod just to help with focus allocation to jacks.
I was planning on Branding the assassins, allowing them to minifeat and charge deep behind the front lines. Roths mercy on Nyss Hunters is a clear choice.
2 heavies at 35 points seems kind of heavy. At 50 I can absolutely see it.
Last edited by maomolin; 05-31-2012 at 08:26 AM.
I'm not sure why you're Branding them since the mini feat does the same thing as far as providing LOS when making attacks....well except for giving them Magic Weapons and Branding doesn't allow them to charge. You know Kill Stroke allows you to ignore models for charges right? Or maybe I'm just missing something.
I always run two heavies with her in competitive tourney play at 35(typically Roci and a Mariner but sometimes I'll drop down to a Freebooter). But I only run her versus certain list. I prefer to run her against Hordes since my jacks can do a ton of damage from range while my units run up for engagement. Anything Def15 and up is almost unkillable on her feat turn. And that's a lot of good decent power attacks from the Nyss/Kayazy/whatever especially if I'm running Aiyanna and Holt in the list.
I don't always put Roths on the Nyss but I'm pretty good at keeping Cylena alive.
I am thinking about running her in Highborn soon though so I can make use of affliction. Longgunners and double tap make that spell stupid good.
Last edited by LiamPiver; 05-31-2012 at 09:33 AM.
I don't get, why you are talking about putting Nonokrion Brand on the Assassins. Nonokrion Brand makes a unit/model "ignore intervening models during attacks" The assassins don't even have reach, so there won't be any intervening models, when they attack, as they have to be within 0,5" of a model TO attack.
If you believe, Nonokrion Brand would let you ignore the LOS requirements for charges, you are wrong. That just isn't what the spell does.
In your list Nyss Hunters or maybe Croe's Cutthroats would be the logical choice for Nonokrion Brand, as those are your ranged options. If any of Fiona's buffs fits the Assassins it would be Roth's Mercy, to perfect their tarpitting against low-MAT opponents and keep their UA alive.
<headdesk> I am wrong. I was flat out reading "attacks" as "Line of Sight".
I am looking at the nyss hunters with this list (and both kayazy's) but the more I look at fiona, the less I am seeing the real appreciative qualities in her spell list.
Nonokrian Brand is actually good, if you put it on the right target - anything with long range and deadly consequences.
-Eyriss for deadly shenanigans
-Mariner/Rocinante for massive POW AoE
-Gun Mages with the Dude, so you can kill stealth
-CRA-units like Nyss Hunters, Longgunners, Steelhead Riflemen for highly accurate, high pow shots
-suit your fantasy
Roth's Mercy is good, not only for keeping a character or an unit attachment alive, but also to ramp up tarpits: The guy, that they want to be gone first always dies last. Typical choices for tarpitting are Pressgangers (especially with the Cultist rule and possibly Doc Killingsworth and/or Bosun Grogspar around) or Boomhowler's trollkin band. If your opponent doesn't spam AoEs or knockdown Kayazay Assassin can also do the job, thanks to their high DEF.
Affliction is a killer against any high-arm one-wound infantry. Shield wall, defensive formation.. doesn't matter. And with enough volume of attacks, you can even plink down heavy jacks and beasts. Kayazay are about the optimum to make an opponent unit evaporate in one round, because parry can make them run through the ranks and make sure they get everyone at once.
For plinking heavies you are usually better off with a ranged approach, as you can't get too many models close enough to hit, so Nyss Hunter, or in Highborn Long Gunners are good in this role. pAlexia is another melee option, as she can get tons of attacks, if she burns her Risen. Sea Dog Crew and Halberdiers can bring a moderate amount of attacks vs a single model, too, thanks to reach or 2nd melee attack.
Telgesh Mark... Fiona isn't just one of only two Mercs, who has access to Arc Nodes, she can chose from any kind of arc node she wants. That is pretty huge. Typical candidates: First Mate Hawk (Acrobatics and Sucker), Eyriss (Stealth), Wrong-Eye (Submerge, can measure his own control range), Kayazay Eliminators (Stealth, Acrobatics, Sidestep), Jacks (ARM and solid amount of boxes), Reinholdt (impressive DEF, innocent look)...
Soul Fire is a solid smack, and with Focus 7 basic, Fiona will hit even high DEF models, and she can really spam it. She won't be cracking Khador jacks with it, but boostable POW 12 are nothing to sneeze at.
Influence usually depends on your opponent placing its models badly, which isn't all bad in itself, as it messes with your opponent's tactics.
Now, if you got a model with Seduction in your army, who can rearrange one warrior model a round... Pressganger's Lass anyone?
PG are quite a good tarpit to start with, thanks to advance deploy, being cheap and having tough, so Roth's Mercy is a good buff for them, anyway. Now if any living enemy warrior model (no jacks or beasts, undeads or constructs, sadly) with decent melee output starts within 6" of the Lass, hilarity ensues.
The Lass can get there, cause she kind of "ignores" free strikes under Roth's Mercy (not really, some poor guy will die, but not her), and she does not have to roll anything to make that model advance and hit once.
If you placed your arcnode right, Fiona can make the model hit 5 times more (Roth's mercy upkept, Telgesh Mark upkept, 5xInfluence, not counting cultist or Wyshnaylrr)... At least you should get two dead models and one misplaced out of this. that is at the very least. If you get your hands at reach models, you can cause wholesale slaughter right behind the enemy lines, where all his important support is supposed to be safe.
Oh, yeah, off course, if the PG are chosen as cultists, the are also fearless, which makes them an even better tarpit.
So, Fiona can have a sniper, that you can't hide from, a super effective tarpit to buy her time, a perfect arc node, can cause massive disruption in your enemies rank or can just blast units/solos/most casters to death via Soulfire spam. Add to that a great defensive feat, the fact, that she does not have to be close to the actions, if she does not want to, but has actually quite solid defensive stats and a vicious melee weapon if she choses to and is a very unattractive target for enemy spells... She is a toolbox, that can greatly support her army, but she needs an army tailored to her needs to shine. Her specialty is to either take out the key elements of the opponent first and have her army grind down the formless hulk, that is left, or just go for ranged assassination immediately.
Last edited by Thamarite Merc; 05-31-2012 at 02:01 PM.
thank you for taking a little extra time to give me some deeper insight on fiona. I have read her tactica, but honestly, your post was more insightful. Having had a commission painter for her, it will be nice to know she won't be wasted.
I was leaning 4* with fiona (and highborn with domiano - boomhowlers, alexia1, croes(4*) or hopefully gun mages/mule (highborn), possibly aiyanna/holt). It is sounding like the nyss hunters and eliminators and/or assassins, eiryss, sylys, hawk are fiona material (and the press gangers that I cannot get a full unit of around here). Does it sound more like I am on the right track?
Last edited by maomolin; 06-01-2012 at 08:39 AM.
Those models you mentioned are all great for Fiona. If you play them right and find the right priorities which models to kill first in you enemies list you should win a lot of games with few bad matchups. Unless you face another rookie, this probably won't happen for quite some time, but don't get discouraged.
You might consider bringing a Mariner and/or Rocinante instead of the Nomad you had in your first list.
-Ranged jacks are less focus-hungry than melee jacks, and while Fiona starts with a lot of focus each turn, you will find lots of fancier ways to use it than to feed a Nomad with it. If you really want a melee heavy, consider Wrongeye and Snapjaw. Snapjaw can go all in, without Fiona having to divert her attention, and Wrongeye is another strong arcnode option. Not a must-have, but certainly a nice-to-have.
-Without the Gunmages Fiona's only way to fight stealthed units/solos from range is lobbing AoEs at them. -> Mariner, Rocinante, Mule. Consider Dougal McNaile for a greater chance to have good deviations, also.
-Both the Mariner and Rocinante also have some defensive tech for Fiona. The Mariner can keep her from getting knocked down, if you don't bring Bosun Grogspar, while Rocinante can shieldguard her and raise her DEF. Keep your distance, if lots of AoEs come flying Fiona's way, though.
About Pressgangers... if you can get only a min unit, take em anyway. Lots of players don't, and still win, but they are really nice, cheap and handy. If you hate the models, consider Madelyne Corbeau. Her main shtick is increasing some other model's threat range by 3", but she is also a good Arcnode thanx to Sucker, and the Seduction/Influence combo is great fun, whenever it happens. If you don't want her either, thats too bad, but still not crippling. The models you have listed should get the job done, anyways, you will just have fewer good occassions to use Influence.
Last pieces of advice:
-Better start with smaller games. They are complicated enough.
-Painting your models improves your luck with the dice. True story!
I like my mules (mariner and rocinate on order). I have handed a grocery list of nearly everything non-rhulic that I do not own for my FLGS to order as they can.
I see Dougal taken quite a bit, but i'm not really a fan.
I run nomads very lean on focus, its never really been much of a factor one way or another.
I do have a question concerning "influence". If I influence an enemy model, can it gain the benefits for "gang" or "backstab" or rear arc bonus?
Local games are 35 points, no more or less for the time being, which I am fairly comfortable with playing. I make stupid mistake, I learn, I grow.
I actually find ranged jacks are more consistently focus hungry, they want 2 every turn. But, I never find a focus problem with Fionna, unless against a purification caster.
Dougal is great if you have a ranged AOE jack and want to save some focus, or if you have a unit with ranged weapons (Long Gunners, ATGM, Steelhead Riflemen, or Nyss)
Influence does not get rear arc bonus, since it's not the models activation.