Roth's mercy vs Shatter storm

[Shiasai]

Hi everyone!
Had a go against my old nemesis last week with my main caster Fiona. He plays ret and brought Ossyian to this fight. Somewhere midbattle his invictors who had Shatter storm on them start shooting my boomhowlers with Roth's mercy on them. This is where we became uncertain if Roth's mercy cancels out Shatter storm or the other way around? Both effects take place when a model is disabled but which one do you apply first? Shatter storms effect applies to the model directly hit but if Roth's mercys effect heals that model and destroys another in its place there shouldn't be any template as a result from Shatter storm.
Am I any close to the solution here? Thoughts anyone?

[Lanz]

Shatter storm triggers on boxed, not disabled. Roth's Mercy would trigger first and shut down Shatter Storm.

[Defenstrator]

Another tactical tip, don't use Roth's Mercy near the Sea Witch Blood Hag. Her Entropic Force prevents healing, so the sacrificed model will die, the other model won't heal and will die anyway, and you just killed an extra model for your opponent.

[Shiasai]

Aha, pretty sure he said it was disabled but nice to know it cancels it. Already loves the spell big time
Don't face cryx very often and when I do there are no satyrix but always good to know when the time comes. Thanks Defenstrator
Still wonder though... if both effects had been applied when a model is disabled how do you know which you apply first?

[Defenstrator]

If it was simultaneous then the attacker, as the active player, would chose which resolved first. See Appendix A: Timing on page 244 of Prime.

[PG_The Captain]

Aha, pretty sure he said it was disabled but nice to know it cancels it. Already loves the spell big time
Don't face cryx very often and when I do there are no satyrix but always good to know when the time comes. Thanks Defenstrator
Still wonder though... if both effects had been applied when a model is disabled how do you know which you apply first?

Official Errata to Appendix A:

At any time two or more abilities are triggered at the same
time, such as “attack hit” or “end activation,” the active player
chooses the order in which abilities on his models resolve, then
the inactive player chooses the order in which abilities on his
models resolve.

EDIT: Note that the active player has no say on when the inactive player's effects happen.

[Shiasai]

Sorry for being slow or anything but that almost sounds as if you could apply both effects at the same time

[Kalki]

"At any time two or more abilities are triggered at the same time, such as “attack hit” or “end activation,” the active player chooses the order in which abilities on his models resolve, then the inactive player chooses the order in which abilities on his models resolve." This means that for instance if shatter storm and roth's mercy had been resolved at the same time, the ret player as the "active" player would get to choose to resolve shatter storm before you get to resolve roth's mercy if I understand it correctly.

Btw I thought pMagnus was your main caster

[Shiasai]

At any time two or more abilities are triggered at the same time, such as “attack hit” or “end activation,” the active player
chooses the order in which abilities on his models resolve, then the inactive player chooses the order in which abilities on his
models resolve. EDIT: Note that the active player has no say on when the inactive player's effects happen.

Its just a matter of how you interpretate this statement as if "yes you as active player choose order on YOUR models but has no say when the inactive player's effects happen" so in theory I could say that my effect takes place at the same time as your model's effect I'm sure in a tournament it would be like mentioned above but I never say no to teasing my fellow players as you should know Kalki

And no, pMagnus just happened to be the first one I got and these days he don't see as much play as Fiona. Maybe Damiano will change that once I get him assembled and painted

[Lanz]

Its just a matter of how you interpretate this statement as if "yes you as active player choose order on YOUR models but has no say when the inactive player's effects happen" so in theory I could say that my effect takes place at the same time as your model's effect I'm sure in a tournament it would be like mentioned above but I never say no to teasing my fellow players as you should know Kalki

The active player gets to resolve first. That's stated in black-and-white. So it wouldn't matter what the inactive player wants, they don't even get a say in the matter until the active player is finished. Rules are not triggered in seperate stacks for each player. If the active player resolves his abilities first, the inactive player has to resolve their abilities afterwards.

For example; Lets say the inactive player has a unit with Roth's Mercy and tough. This unit gets attacked by a Scythean with its Takedown animus up. Takedown, Tough, and Roth's Mercy all trigger in the Disabled step, thus all trigger at the same time, and the Scythean just disabled a model.

Step 1: Active player's disabled effects trigger. Which is Takedown.
Step 2: Inactive player's disabled effects trigger. Which is Roth's Mercy and Tough. The inactive player chooses which abilities to trigger first. Since Tough is being ignored by Takedown, it doesn't matter when it's used, but Roth's Mercy can still be triggered because Takedown doesn't remove from play until the boxed phase. If Roth's Mercy is triggered, then the model the Scythean attacked is no longer disabled (as it has been healed), and the chain stops at this point.
Otherwise...
Step 3: Active player's boxed effects trigger. If the inactive player didn't use Roth's Mercy, then the active player's Takedown effect would at this point remove the model from play, ending the chain here with no more rules able to be triggered because the model is gone by the end of this step.

So ultimately, while the death sequence is Disabled, Boxed, Destroyed, it can actually be broken down further to Active Disabled, Inactive Disabled, Active Boxed, Inactive Boxed, Active Destroyed, Inactive Destroyed. Though the active/inactive steps are basically happening at the same time.

[moddball]

Thanks Lanz glad I have been doing this right. I just have trouble explaining why.

[Shiasai]

Thanks for clearing it up Lanz. It was the whole "Rules are not triggered in seperate stacks for each player" that I was unaware of and it makes perfect sense to prevent multiple rules colliding.