Vlad3 and Kreoss3 feat?

[OrsusSmash]

What is silly is the Steelhead Cav will be better under his feat with our unit attachment, because they have assault/backswing. Put Zephyr on them and now they are charging for 15", plus have a high chance of hitting with their natural ability of being by each other. Then side step "2, but have to read Zephyr to see if it is just normal movement, because if not they can retreat after "12. Also went back and read the card for Gun Carriage a few times now seems like it will work, since it states on the card that on a charge it can make attacks with it's trampling hooves.

Just a heads up: you can't charge + Zephyr. Charging requires making a melee attack at the end of it, and the charge order allows members of the unit to either charge or run. Thus, Valachev can't Zephyr if the unit charges.

It'd still work as part of a normal advance, but if you're not charging with cav, you're losing out on a lot of their benefits (superior threat range, accuracy, and hitting power,) and with the premium of Valachev you're honestly better off points-wise paying for Uhlans.

EDIT: Also, this:

Pretty sure Ranking officers can only attach to small or medium based units. No Faction Friendly Steelhead Cav.

One thing I do like about this feat: it makes Markov's Elite Cadre much more useful. Not so much for the Side Steps, but it'll help make sure you can easily Sprint everything back into a good formation.

[Sul-Menite]

dosent vlad "technicaly" use dark magic? Or some nonsense to do with the old witch causeing that? In that light i can see infernal machine in his spell list no problem.

Yeah he's always used blood magic of some sort(enemies blood in his prime version and his own in his epic version) and Vlad3's blurb talks about him lashing out with Dark Sorcery.

I'm interested in seeing if this version has a new way to hulk out using blood magic.

[frostaxe]

Drakhun seems pretty good. Charge foward, sidestep back, sprint back. Now you are set for a counter charge, or a fresh charge next turn. Seems like it will help your cav especially get more than one charge off. Seems a tad like kaya's feat. Hit run, maybe hit again.

Also any synergy with black ivan?

[PG_Draxos]

dosent vlad "technicaly" use dark magic? Or some nonsense to do with the old witch causeing that? In that light i can see infernal machine in his spell list no problem.

There is a not so subtle difference between "dark magic" that Vlad uses and the black and death magic of Cryx.

[ReaverQueen]

I've got to say with warjacks in mind I'm very unimpressed by the sounds of this feat. Our warjacks simply do not have enough initials with high enough MAT to make Sidestep very good. Sprint is -okay- but is only going to net a 4" move off our ordinary unbuffed jacks. The Conquest will not benefit from Sprint because Sprint kicks in after the model's activation ends. It also requires that the model kill an enemy model, so we won't be having Feat + Run + Sprint kicking in.


That being said, it of course seems to be substantially better on Cavalry models, which we have some of the best of.

Drakhun
Gun Carriage
Uhlans
Vlad3 himself???


I'm definitely interested to see the book, but I can safely say that so far what we know about Vlad3 hasn't made me much more interested in him. ^^;

[quindraco]

I've got to say with warjacks in mind I'm very unimpressed by the sounds of this feat. Our warjacks simply do not have enough initials with high enough MAT to make Sidestep very good. Sprint is -okay- but is only going to net a 4" move off our ordinary unbuffed jacks. The Conquest will not benefit from Sprint because Sprint kicks in after the model's activation ends. It also requires that the model kill an enemy model, so we won't be having Feat + Run + Sprint kicking in.


That being said, it of course seems to be substantially better on Cavalry models, which we have some of the best of.

Drakhun
Gun Carriage
Uhlans
Vlad3 himself???


I'm definitely interested to see the book, but I can safely say that so far what we know about Vlad3 hasn't made me much more interested in him. ^^;

I don't have the wording of Sprint in front of me, but seeing as light cav movement happens in activation now, I am skeptical sprint is outside of it. Also, I forget the exact wording of Colossal movement restrictions - is it only during activation, or only during normal movement? If the latter, even in-activation tricks like side-step would fail.

The go-to jack for this is clearly Drago, although Torch would be hilarious with it due to Sustained Attack.

[ScottEBJJ]

This forum and spoilers....

You wanted tricks, so there is something tricky.

[ReaverQueen]

Strakhov has Sprint, and off his card it goes:

"At the end of this model's activation, if it destroyed one or more enemy models with melee attacks this activation it can make a full advance."

So you're right, sorry, I misread that first bit as coming "after" the activation ended, as opposed to "just before" it's end, so to speak. ^^;;;

[Sul-Menite]

There is a not so subtle difference between "dark magic" that Vlad uses and the black and death magic of Cryx.

Can you explain the not so subtle difference between say Skarre's blood/black magic (and her reading signs and portents/fate) and Vlad's dark magic? They seem pretty similar. Just because Vlad is a nice guy (though according to Drago's fluff entry he has to try really hard to be one) doesn't mean that black magic isn't black magic

[Sul-Menite]

There is a not so subtle difference between "dark magic" that Vlad uses and the black and death magic of Cryx.

Sorry. Double post.

[OrsusSmash]

This forum and spoilers....

You wanted tricks, so there is something tricky.

In my experience, most players who ask for "tricky" are really asking for "cryx tricky", if that makes sense.

[cephid13]

Vladimir Tzepesci, Great Prince of Umbrey
- Feat: Charge of the Horse Lords // While in Vladimirʼs control area, friendly Faction warjacks and cavalry models gain Side Step and Sprint. Charge of the Horse Lords lasts for one turn. (When a model with Side Step hits an enemy model with an initial melee attack or a non-power attack special attack, after the attack is resolved it can advance 2˝. A model with Side Step cannot be targeted by free strikes during this movement.) (At the end of its activation, if it destroyed one or more enemy models with melee attacks during its activation, a model with Sprint can make a full advance.)

Does this mean that the Devastator could side step multiple times after using RoD?? Combining that with bulldoze could make for some very interesting shenanigans...

[ScottEBJJ]

In my experience, most players who ask for "tricky" are really asking for "cryx tricky", if that makes sense.

You mean non-tricks that are really just shoving great/overpowered/underpriced models down someones throat and then having to frame the win in a way that makes it seem like the player pulled off a masterpiece?

Yes I know exactly what you mean and I fully agree.

[Cuagau]

There is a not so subtle difference between "dark magic" that Vlad uses and the black and death magic of Cryx.

As far as it seems logical - PP wanted Vlad to have a spell effect that did what Infernal Machine does, and they aggressively stamped out niche, differently names spells in MKii. So he has infernal machine because that's what that effect is called.

Assuming it's true.

[OrsusSmash]

You mean non-tricks that are really just shoving great/overpowered/underpriced models down someones throat and then having to frame the win in a way that makes it seem like the player pulled off a masterpiece?

Yes I know exactly what you mean and I fully agree.

Yep, that's it precisely.

[profparm]

In my experience, most players who ask for "tricky" are really asking for "cryx tricky", if that makes sense.

Silly Khador, Tryx are for Cryx!

[x3tsniper]

You mean non-tricks that are really just shoving great/overpowered/underpriced models down someones throat and then having to frame the win in a way that makes it seem like the player pulled off a masterpiece?

Yes I know exactly what you mean and I fully agree.

Bile thralls are totally expensive what are you talking about?!

[PG_Warsmith]

I am just curious, where are these feats posted?

[x3tsniper]

I am just curious, where are these feats posted?

4chan /tg/. I posted a link in another thread and the post got removed.

[ReaverQueen]

Probably because TG is where Domination was leaked.

[ForestZ]

I can't really see how useful it would be, but how would sidestep interact with Beast's Thresher? It triggers on hit, but the damage is simultaneous, so you'd have to make all hit rolls before removing models, but you could theoretically get quite a few triggers off it. The question is, do you declare all targets first, then roll to hit them regardless of if you're in range (ie. if you got moved out of range by sidestep), or declare one target at a time, potentially allowing you to move more models into range as you go (a sort of sweeping thresher), or a combination where you have to declare all targets at once, but if you're out of range of it by the time it comes to swing at it (due to sidestepping) then you're SOL...

[ReaverQueen]

I'm pretty sure you only get 1 instance of Side Step because you're hitting them all at once and they trigger all at once. At the end it says you get to advance 2", not that you make a 2" advance per guy, I think.

But all the attacks "resolve" at once because they're simultaneous, so you THRESHER, kill kill kill, and then at the end once all the rolls are resolved ( for damage, ending the attacks ) you make your Sidestep move.


Simultaneous things like that don't activate midway through the process. So enemy abilities that occur on the resolution of an attack don't kick in on Thresher until the final damage roll is all done and resolved.

[x3tsniper]

It would only go off once after the attack is resolved.

[ForestZ]

I think the Damage is simultaneous, but it says it triggers on Hit. From my understanding of how that works (which admittedly may be incorrect), the hits aren't simultaneous, only application of damage. So I think you'd get a trigger on each hit.

[ReaverQueen]

All the attack variables are simultaneous as far as I know, but I mean, I'm not an expert on the matter.

Either way, it specifies "after the attack is resolved". So you could hit like 3 guys and it still wouldn't kick in because you don't "resolve" your attacks until after the damage rolls, which are simultaneous and thus don't have it all kick in until the very end.

[Ohmen76]

Think the feat can work well with positioning. Example charge a jack with Fenris, sidestep to side arch, swing hit again, side step to back arc, if your lucky and a support is hear hoof em then sprint out of walking of jack, and charge it again next round.

[ForestZ]

Ah, you're right, I missed that clause. Oh well.

[Crazy Uncle Doug]

Considering that Uhlans' biggest weakness is getting stuck in melee, this is pretty huge to me. It also would make Fenris even more monstrous, of which I approve.

2" movement is nothing to sneeze at. Taking melee jacks means they effectively get to double their base SPD. Vlad3's feat looks to be an early game feat. I think I can handle this.

[John of Arc]

Does this work with the Drakhun? I'm not too familiar with the model or dragoons in general

[quindraco]

Does this work with the Drakhun? I'm not too familiar with the model or dragoons in general

It would work on Fenris and the 5 point Drakhun while they remained mounted, but not once they fell off their horses. It would always work on the 4 point Drakhun.

Sadly, it would also work much better on cavalry units from several other factions, due to how cripplingly awful Uhlans are when not charging. I believe Soulhunters are the cav unit with the most melee swings (3), plus they're light cavalry, making them the best possible feat target for him - in fact, he's better with light cavalry, period, since all three movement effects would stack.

[ReaverQueen]

Like I said, it seems a lot better for Cav models than jacks, imo.

[x3tsniper]

I am hoping desperately for some kind of elite cadre that allows them a second attack with their lance or at least with their sabre for lack of a better option. He has to have some kind of elite cadre, right? Oo

Even without though, I will be happy to be able to charge in and then walk away almost as far as I charged.

[Demeritus]

Fenris seems like he could be a monster with this feat.

[Ohmen76]

Fenris will be a Melee monster more so now. Since the effects of beserker trigger of initial attacks and there own beserk attacks. Charge mat 10 with him hit unit model, create beserk attack, keep beserk attacking till you miss or none in Melee, side step, swing hit, beserk attacks, hit till miss or nothing, side step again then sprint away, by by unit.

[quindraco]

Fenris will be a Melee monster more so now. Since the effects of beserker trigger of initial attacks and there own beserk attacks. Charge mat 10 with him hit unit model, create beserk attack, keep beserk attacking till you miss or none in Melee, side step, swing hit, beserk attacks, hit till miss or nothing, side step again then sprint away, by by unit.

Since side-step is a whopping 2", a feated Fenris will easily kill an entire unit and then either retreat to safety to charge again, or finish up with an advance into the enemy to jam them up - he'll side-step after every berserk swing, so long as he keeps hitting, and berserk swing after every side-step, so long as he keeps killing.

[epyonliu]

@quindraco: I think side step can only be triggered by initial attacks and berserk attack cannot trigger it. Fenris can still kill quite a lot under this feat but not that amazing~

[rivenwyrm]

Honestly the thing I'm most curious about is how S&P mutates this time. I've always considered that and his self-buffing to be his most interesting rules. If he's got Infernal Machine then he's almost assured to be a 1 jack caster, which suggests he'll want some kind of way to buff infantry: i.e., the next phase of S&P. Someone suggested a passive effect. Not sure how I feel about that, but it wouldn't surprise me. The other question is then: How does he self-buff? It sounds like the feat will work on him, so he'll probably want to get in on the action himself, which basically requires some kind of self-buff since not being able to trigger the sprint is something one of our other casters already suffers from and I doubt they'll repeat that nonsense.

I thought S&P might mutate into his feat, but apparently not, so:
S&P: castable non-upkeep => HoF: castable upkeep => S&P3: passive CTRL area effect (perhaps it triggers if he's damaged)/elite cadre/*action/triggers on hit,damage,kill?

I just really hope he keeps some version of it, and that it's still good.

No idea what they're gonna do for self-buffing. I doubt it'll be a castable upkeep, since Vlad2 has both self-buffing and a castable upkeep, but it probably won't be BoK again. Could be something along the Baldur2 lines.

[Crazy Uncle Doug]

@quindraco: I think side step can only be triggered by initial attacks and berserk attack cannot trigger it. Fenris can still kill quite a lot under this feat but not that amazing~

You may have a point, but even then, two inches after an initial attack can put you in berserk range. For a unit to avoid getting into sidestep territory of Fenris, they'd have to spread out rather thin across the board, which has advantages for us as well. In all, I think this makes him more deadly.

[epyonliu]

Yep Fenris can be great under feat I have no doubt about that. It makes me happy that I can bring the guy back to the field. I don't feel well about the feat with other in-faction cavalry models though. IMHO side step does not work well with single-hard-hitting cavalry models. And since sprint triggers only on kill, it gets tricky to pull off with our cavalry. If the feat only synergies with one model, then I don't know, this combo must be crazily good to justify.

Khador warjacks (low SPD, average MAT, focus mechanism and lack of support) do not synergy well with these abilities, as I mentioned earlier... Again, a tailored spell list or ability list will save the day but otherwise personaly I feel this feat is kinda underwhelmed.

And of course, Vlad himself might become a major assassination tool himself, but that requires him to have great stats and/or spell list.

EDIT: I have no doult Vlad is gonna keep some kind of S&P with him and this along might change things:P

[Ohmen76]

The point being with Fenris is first initial will create beserk attacks alone to any models within his reach, then after beserking, that first initial hit triggers side step 1, move then swing hope to get more, then second initial side step out and sprint all in all nice