pStryker: 35 points of All Comers / general fun gaming

[Sanguinary Dan]

I played the last 3 weeks of our local Journeyman League with pStryker after starting with pNemo. The old man is fun, but just too squishy to face nearly any Hordes list. But Stryker is a whole different animal. He and Rowdy smashed Mercs, Retribution and even Circle. But I found some... Flavor? Missing from my lists. So here's what I'd like to try to add some BAM! back into my game.

Army Name: pStryker 35 points Mk.I-2012
Cygnar
35+6 points, 25 models

Commander Coleman Stryker* +6 points
* Grenadier* 5 points
* Ol' Rowdy* 9 points
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker* 2 points

Journeyman Warcaster* 3 points

Harlan Versh, Illuminated One* 2 points
Stormblades* 5 points
* Stormblade Officer & Standard* 3 points
* 3 Stormblade Storm Gunners* 3 points
6 Trenchers* 6 points
* Trencher Officer & Sharpshooter* 3 points

What do you folks think? Shooty and choppy enough to handle most armies? Or at least have a fair chance. Any and all suggestions (other than Mercs or B13) welcomed.

[Garath]

If you really want to be violent- go for this:

Stryker
Ironclad
Ironclad
Cyclone
Storm lances full
Kathrine laddermore
Squire

There's a violent list in it's fullness - Stormlances under feat packing ARM 25...and the rest of the force ARM 23.
Ironclads do temor , Stryker is up front with the boys. Perfect list for scenarios and for causing one of those "holy ****!" moments in your opponents!

It's especially funny to field this vs ELylith- her shoot beasts can only suck snowballs vs such high ARM

[Sanguinary Dan]

Garath: No offense meant, but what the hell does your list have to do with mine? I'm looking for comments on my combined melee and shooting list. You are more than welcome to post your own thread on what's actually a pretty cool face beater list. But why post it here?

[Garath]

None taken. You said any and all suggestions(other the Mercs or B13) are welcome. So my post was going in that direction.

About your list as it is, It's MK1 style - and can work well.
I would perhaps drop Junior ,for he only casts AS,and Stryker can do it himself and upkeep it for free.
Two obvious candidates are Rowdy or Stryker himself . Stormblades being third choice.

Snipe is a very good spell on them too,that depends on what you do with your trenchers- if you want to spam AOE early on, then Snipe Grenadier.

Truth be told, the only reason to drop junior is so you can take Finn. Seriously, Finn makes trenchers worth their money- buffing them and being an anti infantry tool himself . There are at least 3-4 dirty tricks I know with him and trenchers and he always proved his worth and never let me down.
Finn eliminates the standard RAT 5 trouble trenchers face when not using CRA. His +2 to hit bonus (which is easly obtained if trenchers are dug in)
More i look at this list ,more I see sweet trouble for ya...you have too many possible candidates for Stryker's buffs.
AS was mentioned already, Snipe could go to Trenchers,Stormblades,Grenadier,Harlan,or even Stryker(to disdrupt jacks from further away)
Blurr again could protect any and all units,apart from heavies (they'd get hit anyway most of the time)

Sorry for posting my list, I misunderstood your post...

[Sanguinary Dan]

No worries. And thank you for responding with other suggestions.

I see most of your point about Finn. But I don't get why a second AS is a bad thing. One on Rowdy and one on the Stormblades would seem to be a good thing. Most of the other units are Dug In or too hard to easily target. So adding 3 armor to the guys most likely to be exposed to enemy attacks struck me as a winner. Am I putting too much faith in those 3 points even though they become 8 on the Feat turn?

[Sanguinary Dan]

Dang! Double Post.

[Garath]

No,you are not putting too much hope in ARM 18. One the feat turn they go up to ARM 23. This helps them survive,true. But it doesn't help the list overall.

You need these guys to punch holes in people/jacks/beats/stuff. There are 2 basic ways to do this. Put them as a second line unit(that's what most people write about here) or put them on point( which can work too)
Let's look at both options:

Second line...

These guys need to be able to strike hard and deliver the smackdown the opposition deserves... and snipe is the spell to help them all reach their target with the assault shot,as they probably will not all be able to reach their target up close and personal, since the charge vector could be vertical or sort of sideways( a thing an opponent might do to minimize incoming attacks from stormblades).

So snipe ,feat go! sorta like MHSF and Ravyn , but Cygnar style with less shenanigans and a ton of bricks!!!

Storm blades on point

Now this is unusual but it can work. If you are playing an opponent that fields shield walled infantry with not a lot of (accurate) shooting, Stormblades can take the fight to the enemy. To insure they survive that long( as they will get shot at) Blurr is the spell to help them do it.

The way the game works,sometimes it pays more to have higher DEF then ARM. So Def 16 with Blurr up will mean most troops and jacks are going to need a boost of some kind to hope to hit them.
ARM 18 is good, but POW 12 ranged attacks deal with it on average rolls.
Plus,let's not forget the feat where such a unit is DEF 16 ARM 20 vs shooting...

In order to alpha strike the opposition, you might need to switch from blurr to snipe on the turn you try to alpha strike them. Select a heavy target of your choice and ...snipe,feat ,go!

Storm blades get to shoot their target under assault order if they reach their target or not... so their threat range is(goes to check the cards) : charge 8",range of storm glaives' blasts 6",snipe +4"= 18" total

That just might surprise people


Sorry I wrote a book, but I don't like to explain things with phrases like :"learn to use the unit" ,or "learn to play better" . One thing that is absolutely crucial in this game when looking at models and lists is to see what a specific unit is doing in a list ,and under what circumstances will it preform it's task with success .

Cheers


P.S- don't know if you're new to the game or just the faction(You mentioned journeyman league ) so I'f there's anything I can help with fire away...I have cool trencher tricks for ya

[shaner]

Truth be told, the only reason to drop junior is so you can take Finn. Seriously, Finn makes trenchers worth their money- buffing them and being an anti infantry tool himself . There are at least 3-4 dirty tricks I know with him and trenchers and he always proved his worth and never let me down.
..

I would love to hear about said dirty tricks...I own Finn and I am not sure how to make him worth 3 points.

I'd also like to hear about your Trencher tricks.

Thanks dude

[shaner]

grrrr....double post...sorry.

Will these forums never be fixed!!!

[Garath]

Ok,here we go:

Trenchers and Finn


Finn in itself is a model NOT worth it's points in every list. With Finn and trenchers you need to go "All inn" to make them and him work.
The following assumes you take this:
Trenchers ,UA,Finn ,3 WA - so that 15 pts in only 12 models. You could do worse in Cygnar as far as bodies' count goes so we might as well make them work.

Trenchers

What is so useful about them? First of all,everyone notices their crappy stats- that's a curse and a blessing in itself as we'll later learn.

The UA should go with the unit all the time. Period. Never take them without UA.

Default formation: 2 Column ,3 groups

Group A 3 normal trenchers,Group B rifle grenades,Group C everyone else - always keep a grunt or 2 within 1" of B, to have "take up" in case grenadier takes one for the team

2 Column means Group A spreads out in front of your unit and everyone else stays 4-5" behind

A A A
Finn
B B C C C C

B C C Sniper Officer

First trick: Aoe spam

Simple enough ...activate and assume keep formation, Use Catious advance to dig in , Group B starts blasting away with AOE, Group C joins in with 2 man CRA's (POW13 ,RAT 7+2 from Finn)
Then Group A pops smoke. Finn digs in and has one of his cubans while we wait

Second : Breaking up a shield wall

The idea here is to kill everyone... We are going to assume the shield wall looks like this(imagine 3 groups of 3 models in BTB...like the original Great Bears ):

F H M
EG IJ KL


So...Finn activates first and charges in either between trooper J and K (the idea is to get both of them in his cc zone ) or G and I - your opponent will not make that mistake twice ,but terrain might help you pull this thing off.
I'm going to continue with the assumption than Finn reaches both J and K .. By using his MAT 8 he should be able to kill one or both of them(anatomical percision) - he then get's to advance via SPRINT if he kills one or both. If he kills both,advance to where you came from, if just one ,then stick to the other engaged and try not blocking LOS to the back model of the trio.
Let's say he kills K and sticks to J.

Now trenchers activate...

Sniper picks off G. Grenades target F,H and M This is due to the fact that grunts F,H and M will take normal damage (and POW 12 could kill them) and all other grunts in front of them loose shield wall advantage for the damage is originating from their back arc...
Once you see how many drop, Shoot the rest with 2man CRA's and Group A (which has to advance among them first)pops smoke...


Third trick : Slam

This is simple and unconventional ...if a high defense small based model advances among your unit,slam one of your guys with a jack to knock the opponent over , then finish him/her off with a big CRA or 2...group A pops smoke
And we taught having crappy stats sucks?

Trick four : Rolling smoke

This is for large games ... this is simple activate your whole shooty army advance ,blast them and then trenchers pop smoke. Excellent for pissing people off.

does not work against Legion as such

Now we come to Finn:

He needs to lead by example! If you want your trenchers to hit stuff,have Finn there,pop a couple of mini slugger shots and buff the unit.

You want to use assault order?- Fine, activate him first and position him so they can see him and gain +2,+2 - this is very important! Not only you cannot CRA while assaulting, if you don't get the first bonus for the ranged attack ,you're not going to get the second bonus either.

Trick 4: Peek-a-Boo

This is for one of those scenarios where you need to get to somewhere and hold it. If you happen to go first: AD trenchers ,deploy Finn on point.- Activate Finn,move forward and issue Desperate Pace. Now your trenchers are running 14" ( if you need to) or using Catious advance 8" and digging in.
You will be near(er) to that point and if the opposition advance forward(and they have to) -punish them for it !

Trenchers are there not to lay there lives for the King! They are there to help the OTHER side lay their lives for their faction!!!


One final note,spells to help you out wih all of this are: Snipe,Dead Eye,Blurr,Arcane shield-in that order of importance! In fact, Trenchers do well with Stryker,but much better with Caine...

Cheers


P.S- give them a spin,they're not that bad if you really go into detail

[Sanguinary Dan]

Wow. Some really interesting ideas that I will try. I'd of left it at "Wow" but there's that whole min. 10 characters thing.

[Garath]

Trenchrs are ok vs most opponents if you go "All in"

[Sanguinary Dan]

Okay Garath, is this "all in" enough to make Trenchers work?

Army Name: pStryker 35 points Mk.III
Cygnar
35+6 points, 20 models

Commander Coleman Stryker* +6 points
* Cyclone* 9 points
* Ol' Rowdy* 9 points
* Squire* 2 points

Journeyman Warcaster* 3 points

Captain Maxwell Finn* 3 points
10 Trenchers* 10 points
* Trencher Officer & Sharpshooter* 3 points
* 2 Trencher Rifle Grenadiers* 2 points

I'm thinking about replacing the Grenade Porters with a Solo. Either the Piper or ???

[Garath]

Yup!

Don't drop grenade porters...drop Junior and take one of the following:

- ruphert and stormsmith
-Eiryss
-Gorman
-Harlan versh
-Ogrun bokur to guard Finn!

[tankrandall]

Yup!

Don't drop grenade porters...drop Junior and take one of the following:

- ruphert and stormsmith
-Eiryss
-Gorman
-Harlan versh
-Ogrun bokur to guard Finn!

I dont get it....some of those options are 3 points others are 2.

[Garath]

Sorry...indeed they are- forgot to mention when a solo is 2pt-just add a stormsmith

The idea is that while Junior is a great model- his impact on Stryker's list(s) is doubling what Stryker already does- cast and upkeep Arcane shield.
This may seem all good, and most of the time it is ,except in small games you either want to be completely one-dimensional ( all hard hitters,all jacks ,all infantry) and aim for a good match -up, or have a bit of everything in your list.

Junior brings a viable spell to this list- but some of the choices I listed (in fact most of them) help your troops survive by killing the enemy first- which is...the goal of the game,most of the time

The only un-conventional choice in here is Bokur. This is a favourite of mine- he work wonderfully with Finn. Finn being a trencher leader,commander and a bad *** mofo by him self with AD - a Bokur to guard him let's you deploy the Bokur further up front. Getting the ogre to action on your terms is somewhat complicated in Cygnar if he guards or Warcasters.
This way,you get to hit things(and slam them away) with the safe knowledge that your Warcaster is not nearer to the action then you'd like

[thesavage]

I'm mostly just posting here so that it will be easier for me to find this thread in the future, as Garath posted what I think is great advice on trencher formations that I will reference in the future. I do love both Stryker1 and trenchers.

Sanguinary Dan, the list you posted is interesting. Personally, I really like to have Stryker's battlegroup be Ol' Rowdy and an Ironclad, with both Jr. and Stryker unkeeping arcane shield on the jacks, providing two things which are very difficult to kill. However, in this list, I see the advantage of taking a Cyclone. You can drop templates to deny charges to the trenchers. Still, having an ironclad means you can free up two points. Personally, I really like to use the Piper. In addition to giving them pathfinder if he really needs it, he can give the trenchers fearless and tough, or if they get into melee combat +1 defense and terror.

With the changes I propose, you will find that you can play Stryker more forward, which makes for more damage to your enemy, but it is also more risky for you. However, I have not tried the exact list I suggest. Maybe it isn't best when using a bunch of trenchers, although my guess is that it depends largely on your playstyle.

[Sanguinary Dan]

What about this modification? I dropped Jr. for Eiryss and downgraded the Cyclone to free up the points for the Black 13th.

Army Name: pStryker 35 points Mk.IV
Cygnar
35+6 points, 23 models

Commander Coleman Stryker* +6 points
* Minuteman* 5 points
* Ol' Rowdy* 9 points
* Squire* 2 points

*Eiryss, Angel of Retribution* 3 points

Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team* 4 points
Captain Maxwell Finn* 3 points
10 Trenchers* 10 points
* Trencher Officer & Sharpshooter* 3 points
* 2 Trencher Rifle Grenadiers* 2 points

[Garath]

Thanks Thesavage, glad to help out.


The last list looks very good also. There are lots of spell choices here- do you snipe Minuteman or Trenchers or B 13?
What about blurr??

This largely depends on your usage of trenchers- that in itself will make or break your game. That trencher module is HUGE!!!

If you want both Cyclone and B13 in the list,then switch Cyclone back in,drop minuteman. Get the points for B13 by reducing trenchers to a 6 man unit- they will work fine like that too...
In fact you just gave me an idea... B 13 have stealth while inside cloud effects...

They could be put to good use behind a trencher smoke wall.... have snipe on . Even better, let's include Cyclone too!!!

Upkeep Blurr on trenchers. Use 3 guys to pop smoke-everyone else in the unit does their normal thing(sniper shoots solos,they dig in blah-blah).
Snipe B 13 and have them INSIDE the trenchers...they will have to activate first if you want to advance the whole thing. B13 shoot stuff with sniped range.

Cyclone put down covering fire templates on the further edge of the smoke templates so no one can engage the front 3 trenchers unless they take a POW 12 damage roll.

Only option for the opposition is to shoot the trenchers - and they will be DEF 13+ 3 from blurr+ 2 from smoke- DEF 18...take that Iron fleshed Khador mofos!!!

Second option is the front trenchers get charged by Jacks/beasts- That leaves them in a tight spot since you can position Rowdy nearby to charge and smash them.
Alternatively , Cyclone could just throw the heavy away- and let them spend one Fury/foc to stand up ,and a second one to charge....by then you can pop feat also


This seems like we are onto something here- except it will take practice to get the order of activation right ,but hey practice makes perfect

[Sanguinary Dan]

Played tonight against pGaspy with 6 Trenchers w/UA, Finn and a Grenadier. Wow. The first CRA from the Trenchers bagged a bone chicken. And then they managed to keep impressing me thanks to Desperate Pace and feeding grenades into the Grenadier. The Grenadier even managed to drop 2 out of 3 grenades directly on Gaspy's head and cause 8 wounds.

Trenchers. Go big and send the other guy home.

[Garath]

Glad you had a good time.

Which caster did you play?

[Sanguinary Dan]

Used pStryker. He's really become my favorite. The look on people's faces when they find out that Ol'Rowdy is armor 28 on the feat turn is priceless.

And of course Snipe works so darn well with Trenchers and Stormblades.

[Geekly]

In this post you mentioned having the unit of trenchers make a Cautious Advance and Dig In, and after everyone else makes their attacks, the front line pops Smoke Bombs. I'm fairly new, so I wanted some clarification about this.

Cautious Advance is an order and requires all units to Dig In prior to making a Combat Action. However, Smoke Bombs is a special action. I didn't think you can do two Special Actions on the same turn. I can't figure out how Cautious Advance would allow you to Dig In and use Smoke Bombs during the same turn. Would you mind explaining it to me? It sounds like a pretty sweet trick.