Spoilers from MoM

[PG_strangedane]

Not liking the exhaust pipes but let's see the final models first. Other than that it looks amazing! And eFeora is my most used warcaster so she is totally in love!

My painter has 5 Vengers and Gravus standing on her painting table already, Kreoss3 just made me looking forward to seeing them painted even more!

[cryptomancer]

Been mulling the spoilers for a while now, and I must admit, I'm solidly convinced 3oss is still a ranged warjack support guy. It's not what I was expecting for a guy on a horse, but that seems to be what they did. Weird.

It's basically the same thing as we're used to from Kreoss1. Pop feat (which nukes enemy upkeeps/animi, from what I hear), KD enemy Warlock/Warcaster with Force Hammer, spam attacks from ranged Warjacks (Redeemer, Reckoner, Vanquisher, Judicator), profit.

However, the buffs he can hand out to his army put me more in mind of Kreoss2, as does his (actually pretty decent) personal melee statline. In a pinch, he can just smash his force (or himself) into the enemy and smack away at them. It's not exactly his strong suit, but in, say, a Mangled Metal game he's pretty dangerous. S+P and/or Ignite on his melee weapon, Death Sentance on an enemy (for free on Feat turn), and a charge will down almost anybody one-on-one. It's a shame we lost the Armour Piercing attack, but at a possible P+S:18 discarding the lowest of four dice I'm not complaining.

He does seem to be the least impressive of the new WarCavsters (tm) but he's certainly not bad or anything. I'm thinking of running the following once I can afford the last few purchases:

Intercessor Kreoss (*5) [I've only read about the 5 WJ points; if I'm wrong, tweaks are easy for this list]
- Redeemer Light Warjack (+6)
- Reckoner Heavy Warjack (+8)
- Revenger Light Warjack (+6)
- Judicator Colossal (+18)
- Hierophant (+2) [attached]
Choir of Menoth (FULL +3)
Exemplar Errants (FULL +8)
- Officer & Standard (+2)
Exemplar Vengers (FULL +11)
Temple Flameguard (FULL +6)
- Officer & Standard (+2)
Reclaimer (+2)
Wracks (+1)
Vassal Mechanic (+1)
Vassal of Menoth (+2)
Vassal of Menoth (+2)


75 points of shooty, hitty doom. And Flameguard to eat a charge, because, what, Exemplars are going to do that? Please. Get Feora's lackeys front-and-center. Send the Reclaimer up after 'em.

-crypto

[Omenbringer]

I'm thinking Kreoss3 is supposed to be a spell slinger. His feat turn just allows him to avoid paying upkeep costs so he can use it all to cast more spells.
Yes, Wracks and a Hierophant will be mandatory with him.

With his speed is the Hierophant going to be able to keep up with him to buff him (aside from Spiritual Conduit, the other two actions are really short ranged)?

Which brings up the question of his Jacks being able to keep up as well?

I like that he buffs the Vengers though and can hardly wait to play them again.

[paradox]

With his speed is the Hierophant going to be able to keep up with him to buff him (aside from Spiritual Conduit, the other two actions are really short ranged)?

Which brings up the question of his Jacks being able to keep up as well?

I like that he buffs the Vengers though and can hardly wait to play them again.

1. Just because he's SPD8 doesn't mean you shove him all the way out to die ASAP. Save the long threat for when you charge in to murderate. Thus, the hierophant will go 1st and easily buff you.
2. I've been able to keep up with the hierophant on Thyra, and she's way more mobile and nearly as fast, with a smaller base (easier to get out of range).
3. He's CTRL14. How are your 'jacks getting out of range?

[Omenbringer]

Thanks Paradox, I have enjoyed reading your other menoth tactics threads (especially the "dark horse" series) and am looking forward to reading the next one on Kreoss.

[paradox]

Thanks.

Lay off the Doom-pedal a bit there, eh?

[Omenbringer]

Heh like I said he buffs the Vengers so I am already jazzed about him for no other reason than that.

[LordGrimlok]

The more I look at him, I think Kreoss3 will be the sleeper hit of all the new warcasters. It will just take time to really flesh him out and break him. He ha ways to buff his army and do the job himself. Warpath will be the key, here. Like getting that revenger a new angle or extra distance for force hammer. We have plenty of ways to trigger it. And although Vengers will be great with him, I'd wager that he'll fill out his list just fine without them. Again, I'm praying to Menoth that PP has heard our cries against Kreoss2's sculpt, and grants us one worthy of Kreoss3's art.

[jandrese]

Heh like I said he buffs the Vengers so I am already jazzed about him for no other reason than that.

The big thing for me is that he gives a significant bump to the Venger's impact attacks, which have always been the worst in the game.

[Burninated]

Kreoss3 seems o.k., but it's really hard to tell right now if he will be good. I feel like his abilities and spell list pull him in 2 different directions. Maybe he will be best as a jack support guy, or maybe his feat and list of upkeeps makes him better at army support. It's really hard to say.

What if we run two full units of vengers as front line assault troops with him? It's really freakin expensive (points and money!), but it could be a hell of a lot of fun. I think the trick would be making sure your vengers get enough attacks off to make it worth it, meaning you probably need to set them up for some impact attacks + hitting with the charge. With Gravus in there and a sanctifier and FOS that could be a sweet alpha strike followed by a couple of nasty jacks.

Just an idea anyway. I really can hardly sit still because we haven't seen the models. I'm going to get depressed when we don't see them for another 3 months.

[cryptomancer]

Seriously guys, look at Threeoss' spells and Feat. He's eKreoss with a Knockdown spell! That's like the best bets of each! Yes it's a hella-expensive KD spell, but still. I'm thinking Melee Army, Ranged Battlegroup. He's not head-and-shoulders amazing like many of the other 3pic Warcasters, nor is he Win Button like Kreoss1 and his Feat. Instead, he's tactical, multi-faceted, weird, and a bit under-powered. Makes things more exciting in my view.

-crypto

[dicegod]

3eoss is very solid. Could be a sleeper if people don't expect him to kill anything in melee and don't take too many melee jacks with him. Warpath is OK but it's the whole package that means he can pull a lot of assassination shennigans.

[Bollster]

3eoss is very solid. Could be a sleeper if people don't expect him to kill anything in melee and don't take too many melee jacks with him. Warpath is OK but it's the whole package that means he can pull a lot of assassination shennigans.

So basically, build a well balanced list that has tools for all situations and let Kreoss3 support it without trying to ram him facefirst into the opposition caster at the first hint of an opening? Where have I heard that before... *cough*ThyraFeora1Reznik*cough*. In all seriousness though, it's natural to do a quick mathmachine on the potential damage a charging caster with all their buffs and feat will do as that gives you some idea of how good they potentially are at sealing the deal in a pinch but it's worth remembering that, for most casters, they're better off spreading their love around and getting the army to do the talking. Very few casters/locks around are played best by hogging all their magic to themselves and going for a personal assassination. Kreoss3 looks exactly like previous casters who have had great damage potential in that doing so seems to miss a lot of better things he could be doing.

In case it wasn't abundantly clear, I second Dicegod's statement :P

[Azuresun]

Blazing Effigy Judicator?

Plus, Wall of Fire will probably be handy to stop or at least break up mass weaponmaster charges.